Meshugger Posted February 21, 2005 Posted February 21, 2005 did you hear the visas/mandalore dialogue in the 852 folder ??? It clearly reveals mandalore's identity <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yep, sounds like he's mortally wounded, but Visas heals him. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
Thummin Posted February 21, 2005 Posted February 21, 2005 Just finished SWKOTOR2 last night, and found myself severely disappointed. While some of the voice acting could have been a little better, the plotting was intricate and well-done -- you could tell they sat down and really beat around the storyline, the characters, and their motivations (similar to Brad Bird, director of The Incredibles) until they had something with depth and meaning. The story really touched me in spots. As everyone suggests, it was the ending that flat-lined. (This happened a bit with the first KOTOR, which I felt ended somewhat abruptly, but this was much worse.) As a writer, it seemed obvious to me before I even ran across this thread that they either ran out of disc space, time, or money because a story so intricately plotted and smart enough to capably discuss the nuances of morality would not have simply clipped off like that. [Reminded me faintly of one of Terry Brooks
Trance Posted February 21, 2005 Posted February 21, 2005 Well Im new to the forums here, :"> After I finished the game although I loved it I was left with many questions.... So I came to the web to look for some answers in the storyline... I wondered had I missed something.... perhaps I had taken a wrong turn somewhere and not gotten the full picture in regards to a proper ending... But with luck *which I will for ever be thankful* I stumbled here and found this thread.... And after reading it all I feel that I have most of my questions as to what happened answered in sorts.... I was a big fan of the first game.... Played it through *a number too embarassing to even mention* times just to get Carth... Sad I know but I loved the storyline with the LSF character so much when she got Carth I just couldnt stop... When I got the sceen after the battle on the Ravanger back on Telos with Carth I was so happy to see him for real not as a projection and to hear him say that one line... (if you had said Revan was a LSF) "Just tell her Carth Onasi is waiting" was a high light of the game for me a that point... And I thought that was just going to be a start of many high lights to come as I certianly didnt think that the game was going to slide into an ending the way it did... Sure the guy who had seemed to be building as a giant threat was a little too easy but I thought that it was about to announce that there was a greater threat yet to be beaten.... Not so much to my disapointment the game got no harder and then the rushed version of an ending just made more questions... Why only Mira and the remote with parts to play and why do you not find out where she went other than it showing her at the entrance to the academy.... and so on... Then there was the much sort after (as I can now see) romantic storyline with Atton that you seemed never to be able to push past a few sceens of him asking questions and confronting the others... But enough of my rambling I posted here to thank you all... Your seach for the lost endings and the sound files you have found have no doubt made many of us who were left looking for the end happy.... And a special thanks to Aurora for all the lost information was just what I was looking for and with out it I most likely would not have continued on in this thread.... to Highpriest for putting it all into a more eye friendly and better understood version (not an easy task im sure... and a rather time consuming one no doubt...) and for the information you found.... And to Eji who put them together in that way... I mean WOW! The music is perfectly choosen and they are put together wonderfully.... The one with Atton as a force ghost at the end with you leaving M5... WOW... I just want to smile and cry all at the same time... Its one of those laugh though your sad moments... Anyway you should do that to all the lost sound data in the game because the ones you have done thus far have really moved me and made me wish even more so for a completed KOTOR 2.... Ok my rambles over now sorry all...
slowpoke Posted February 21, 2005 Posted February 21, 2005 About the ritual controling the drexl spawn: You're right about the ritual. What the hell was that? If I remember correctly the Sith Lord said something along the lines of; "You are too late. It has been done. It has been released." So, what the hell was he talking about? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Obviously, he was talking about KOTOR2 and the possibility of adding more content to the ending
jedipodo Posted February 21, 2005 Posted February 21, 2005 Good joke. "Jedi poodoo!" - some displeased Dug S.L.J. said he has already filmed his death scene and was visibly happy that he
Trom Posted February 21, 2005 Posted February 21, 2005 What bothers me the most is that the Devs don't seem interested in what their fans have to say. It should not be that hard to add a little comment... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, it wouldn't be hard, but I wouldn't be surprised if they can't say anything due to contracts. There's no way any publisher would allow a developer to blame them for a failed/incomplete game without legal retaliation. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm still convinced that they ran into an XBox version major problem late in the development cycle. Feagus himself alludes to this in November just before it shipped. So I imagine it happened something like this: Obsidian is sitting in a room with George and Bill. Obsidian: "Great news, George! We've got a great game with a really great storyline. The problem is that it doesn't work so hot on the XBox unless we truncate the endgame." Bill looks at George. . . .
Biggs Posted February 21, 2005 Posted February 21, 2005 ....yet they still found enough room on the disk to have a "Republic Commando" demo?? *stabs Bill in chest and takes a dumb on George's car on the way out* That solves our problem Now someone mod this game already for the proper ending....
Niten_Ryu Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 Very informative thread. I've played KotOR 2 both LS and DS. During my 2nd run, I must have spent over 10 hours in order to find out what happend to HK-47 and his clones (It's fun to return to Telos after every planet several times over in different stages of game... NOT), trying to find more clues what happend after Jedi council ect ect... Now I found out that many things were cut from the game. Damn, I should have read this thread first. Sound files clarify many important things. Too bad that we'll probably never see technical fix patch or storyline patch. If they cut stuff, they should have cut Ravanger and Malachor V. They were REALLY badly designed and it would have been better if the game just ended after Jedi council (kill Sion in Korriban, Nihilus during final flight to Dantooine and Kreia at Jedi council). You just can't create complite game in 12 months anymore. Lucas Arts needs to change policy as soon as possible or Star Wars (games) brand will be same level with Star Trak games... and that's not good. Let's play Alpha Protocol My misadventures on youtube.
nightmaresofsorrow Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 If they cut stuff, they should have cut Ravanger and Malachor V. They were REALLY badly designed and it would have been better if the game just ended after Jedi council (kill Sion in Korriban, Nihilus during final flight to Dantooine and Kreia at Jedi council). I do agree that malachor V was poorly designed it can't just be cut out. It is where everything started for you...where you turned away from the force and it is a part of your past that has to be confronted.
SteveThaiBinh Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 Ravager (Nihilus' ship) was so like the Leviathan in Kotor 1, it's untrue! Rooms full of Sith soldiers throwing grenades, fighting your way to a big boss. So why was the Ravager so much less interesting? Lack of dramatic tension, that's why. On the Leviathan, you were fighting towards Carth's big showdown with Saul, something that had been building since the first hour of the game. Nihilus is a terrible villain, too abstract to arouse much passion. It would be like hating a natural disaster. So yes, it could easily have been cut, but there remains the underlying problem that the story isn't building towards a satisfying conclusion. "An electric puddle is not what I need right now." (Nina Kalenkov)
Niten_Ryu Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 I do agree that malachor V was poorly designed it can't just be cut out. It is where everything started for you...where you turned away from the force and it is a part of your past that has to be confronted. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, Malachor V was very important from storyline point of view. Ok, after jedi council, you just travel to Malachor V, skip the boring canyons and rooms filled with cannon fodder and meet Kreia there. Usually I have very high tolerance against badly designed maps. I always manage to find something positive. This time mood changed so much after jedi council, that I really can't remember similar case... oh yeah, Secret of Silver Blades had similar feeling. Malachor V could have been great with better design and it's shame that Obsidian didn't design it during early stages of development. Let's play Alpha Protocol My misadventures on youtube.
celestine Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 I just finished the game yesterday too and after going through the dialogues with Darth Traya, I was very disappointed that the only scene left was Ebon Hawk flying to space and the credits started rolling. wtf? Is that all? After reading thru' the threads here, I realised I missed out so much and the ending was very very unfulling. I'm going to give it one more shot and going through again w/ DS.
nightmaresofsorrow Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 I just finished the game yesterday too and after going through the dialogues with Darth Traya, I was very disappointed that the only scene left was Ebon Hawk flying to space and the credits started rolling. wtf? Is that all? After reading thru' the threads here, I realised I missed out so much and the ending was very very unfulling. I'm going to give it one more shot and going through again w/ DS. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Unfortunately The DS ending is no better
Meshugger Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 I just finished the game yesterday too and after going through the dialogues with Darth Traya, I was very disappointed that the only scene left was Ebon Hawk flying to space and the credits started rolling. wtf? Is that all? After reading thru' the threads here, I realised I missed out so much and the ending was very very unfulling. I'm going to give it one more shot and going through again w/ DS. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Unfortunately The DS ending is no better <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Almost even worse actually... "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
Objulen Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 Note: Manalore's indentity is hinted at to the point of revealing it when Kreia has a talk with him (when she mentions clan Ordo), and given away outright when you get the final conversation with Kreia at the very end of the game when you ask about your companions.
Locue Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 The cut ending stuff. Yeah, yeah. A shame. Whatever. While I have signed the petition, I don't rightfully know where I stand in all of this. One side of me thinks the endings should be restored, as it is in the games (and the developers) best interests to do so. But another side of me believes the endings would have made severe restrictions on a third part in this franchise and that it was LucasArts wish that Obsidian left it more open-ended and mysterious. Whether or not the third part will address to these issues, I have no idea, but I'd say they make for a great intro at the very least. Don't get me wrong: the cut endings are great, but they are very extreme and unforgiving. I suppose some of the more non-extragavant stuff could've made it into the game without raising any heat. Like the funny ending with Atton and the Exile. Then again: is Atton dead at this time? Seems highly unlikely. Force ghosts don't really communicate with any other beings than force ghosts. By the way, some of the ending sound clips strike me as sound complements to movies rather than in-game sequences. Obviously dialogue between player character and the characters would be in-game, but other than that... Ah well: as I said, I did sign the petition for what little or what much it might do and I will spread word about it's existence. But I truly don't care. Try it if you want to. I don't blame LucasArts or Obsidian like you do, even if you fail to admit it. This is still a great ******* game. A great "debut" for the Obsidian people and I wouldn't be surprised if there's even more great games in their future. Best of luck, mates. / Locue Edit: Also, in KOTOR2 you can unlock new dialogue by completing the game. There's also supposed to be a bonus for unlocking all the movies. Call me crazy, but I'd say that would be a great way of making the players frustrated and really work for their "missing" endings. As I said, call me crazy. People do it all the time.
Aurora Posted February 22, 2005 Author Posted February 22, 2005 re: Force ghosts, I briefly googled and apparently they can: -be seen by Force Sensitives -be seen when they want to be seen -or both One of the Sith Lords is still hanging out in KOTOR1 as a Force ghost, so if we're going for in-game consistency, it wouldn't be a problem for Atton to be visibly hanging out as a ghost. I am a bit perplexed at the Atton ending, admittedly. It *does* sound like it fits in at the end- but to end the game on light banter... well, that's quite different from how it actually turned out. If he were a Force ghost, it'd make more sense (WAAAH BITTER), but there's technically nothing in-game to imply that. I am following my fish. A temporary home for stranded ML'ers
Locue Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 I don't think Atton would be that cheerful if he was dead and that ending is supposedly part of his death scene, like some people on this forum thinks. He changes his attitude real quickly in that case. From "Oh, I died for you, my love/friend." to "Hey, up and running again, people! I might be a force ghost, but the Hawk still got two fusion batteries to go and I'm kicking to burn it to smithereens!" Do they hand out Prozac in Heaven or something? No, that ending was strictly to be used if the player ignored Atton as a romantic interest and thus saving his life. Aw, ain't romance a bitch?
Lifthransir Bane Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 What bothers me the most is that the Devs don't seem interested in what their fans have to say. It should not be that hard to add a little comment... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Obsidian must be contractually obligated to keep their mouths shut. I guarantee Chris Avellone is more angry/disappointed than any of us. I know I would be if an editor ripped out 90% of a last chapter of something I was writing, then published it. Writers are narcissists, my dear. Obsidian is wearing a legal straight jacket.
Aurora Posted February 22, 2005 Author Posted February 22, 2005 Yeah, I have no idea where it'd fit in, really. It's such a MAJOR difference from all the other endings (him tortured to death/Visas death/Handmaiden or Visas standing fornlorn and abandoned while male PC walks into the sunset) that it's just kinda bizarro. Maybe you're right and he/Visas just got Viconiaed: the only "happy" endings are to not have a romance at all, with anyone. I'll just pretend that he's dead but DESPERATELY FAKING SOME EMOTION BESIDES DESPAIR, like he does with everything else. I am following my fish. A temporary home for stranded ML'ers
Mondo Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 *obligatory Wow, I wish all this stuff was still in the game post* Great work by everyone that found this stuff. What if I wanted to kill the other bounty hunters but still have the Twi'leks chase me?
aikikai Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 news flash on the frontpage of obsidianent.com A patch is coming.. but no mention of what issues it fixes
Trance Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 I know Im just new here but, If the end was with Atton as a force ghost its doubtful that he would still remain all sad and all down trodden about his death... He would most likely return to being his old self... much with the jokes and light banter... which makes the impact on the sceen more I feel... Then again to each there own so it really comes down to how you yourself see it as its not in the game... Also I agree though that there is prob much more to unlock that we havent found yet....
Locue Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 I know Im just new here but, If the end was with Atton as a force ghost its doubtful that he would still remain all sad and all down trodden about his death... He would most likely return to being his old self... much with the jokes and light banter... which makes the impact on the sceen more I feel... Ok, works for me. Then again to each there own so it really comes down to how you yourself see it as its not in the game... Also I agree though that there is prob much more to unlock that we havent found yet.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, there's way too much stuff to unlock so it's not really a option, I think. Even though I came up with it. But if that is the case, even though I think not, then the reason why Obsidian isn't commenting on any of this is because they're too busy laughing at us. Those pricks.
Kams Posted February 22, 2005 Posted February 22, 2005 I just read all this stuff about cut features... Man, why did they do it? It was going to be the best part of the game! I will go to get drunk right now... ps. you can save me from vodka, if you tell me that someone is going to make KOTOR2 mod with all these stuff.
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