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Zach Morris

What's your opinion of bugs?

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I'm just wondering what do you guys think about bugs. They are kinda annoying but overall I don't think they're that bad. I mean I would have to say that KOTOR was one of the buggiest games that I have ever played, but it is also one of my favorites. So I would have to say that the bugs didn't really hurt my affection of the game.

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when I played through the recent one they weren't too bad, it was strange though, did anyone else notice how they were all kind of in the middle of the game? absolutelly none in the begining. then all of a sudden a slew of bugs infesting and wasting time, and all at once they seased, none whatsoever all the way through the end, weird, I think that bothered me more that the bugs did, ha, lol.

 

 

BTW, did anyone else happen to run right back in to trash Sion, on Korriban when he made you leave? lol, the door is completelly open, you walk in up the stairs and the two guards are still there and I apporached Sion and it all went black and it didn't freez it just went black and you can still move around but can't talk to Sion or leave, *RELOAD*, I was so mad! I totaly wanted to beat his ASS!!!! lol.

 

 

bugs happen, get over them, or should I say... "walk right over them," they are bugs after all, lol, they may get annoying but they won't ruin the game. lol

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I played Kotor first time with patch version 1.02 or 1.03 I think, so more or less I played very well thru. Bugs can be annoying but you get really angry like in recent Vampire Bloodlines, when the game crashes on a certain point in the game and there isnt any patch available. Also with Aliens: A Comic Book Adventure. This game crashed on cd2 and I didnt have Internet back then (1995), I remember I get the update from a BBS Mailbox.

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Bugs can be annoying but you get really angry like in recent Vampire Bloodlines, when the game crashes on a certain point in the game and there isnt any patch available.

Um, but there is a patch available for the game. And before that, there was an unofficial patch by some dude which actually seems to fix more things than the official patch in like... 1/10 of the size. :rolleyes:

 

Anyway, I don't care about bugs too much, unless they're of the game stopping kind, or affect performance seriously, like the Bloodlines memory leak. However for me it's not the bugs themselves. It's the lousy QA work that allowed those bugs to be in the final pruduct in the first place...


- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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Um, but there is a patch available for the game. And before that, there was an unofficial patch by some dude which actually seems to fix more things than the official patch in like... 1/10 of the size. :-

You missed my point, but then again take out the same point in your post. When I buy a game on release date and you are not able the play the game to the end only via patches/hacks or console commands something went wrong. It would be okay If I was an beta player but I was not. Iam not the kind of person who stop playing and wait weeks for fanpatches/offical patches and continue playing.

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I won't touch a Troika game because of their bug-infested software.  After ToEE I know better.

True, True. You see where the arrow is pointing in the Troika logo? Faaaar away from "Code". :- Nah, I like their games anyway. :(

 

logo.jpg

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Unfortunately the design arrow isn't appropriate either... The game was generally nicely done, but the later parts (china town, and that stupid sabbat's lair especially) prevented it from being an absolute hit. One word: Unbalanced.

Oh, btw... Willkommen im Board! :thumbsup:

 

As for the subject: Well, I like bugs for breakfast, best when they're baked! Does that count as opinion too?

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Unfortunately the design arrow isn't appropriate either... The game was generally nicely done, but the later parts (china town, and that stupid sabbat's lair especially) prevented it from being an absolute hit. One word: Unbalanced.

Oh, btw... Willkommen im Board!  :)

 

As for the subject: Well, I like bugs for breakfast, best when they're baked! Does that count as opinion too?

Well, torwards the end it was too heavy set on action imho. What especially didnt you like in that parts? What me really pisses off in sabbat's lair was that SPOILER

.........they killed my ghulgirl...........

SPOILER :ermm:

 

Danke f

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depends on the severity of the bugs and what they affect. like many have mentioned, the vampire:bloodlines bugs and glitches were almost unplayable, and those are the kind i want to punch the developers/publishers in the throat over. i didnt come across any game stoppers in kotor2, so other than the dialogue that remains even after explored, and the stuff that was cut out, i just want to see kotor2 pc polished (yes i know thats not what you asked, but meh it fit).

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Well, torwards the end it was too heavy set on action imho. What especially didnt you like in that parts? What me really pisses off in sabbat's lair was that SPOILER.........they killed my ghulgirl........... SPOILER :lol: 

Exactly that, it was too combat orientated in the end, and the Sabbat's lair...oh boy, I thought when I'm out of that hole it only can get better... But that wasn't the case. Instead I had to to fight through hordes of silly Kuei-Jin just to furthermore fight a gigantic snail and so forth... In the end, I became pretty "demotivated"... The point is that I had to put all my XP into combat, so that my charming Toreador mutated into a war machine instead of giving me the choice (as every good CRPG should do) to solve quests in a non-Terminator like manner.

But other than that, Bloodlines was great.

 

Sure, but let me guess...you are not vegetarian, aren't you?  :D

No. Heck, how do you know? :ph34r:

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depends on the severity of the bugs and what they affect.  like many have mentioned, the vampire:bloodlines bugs and glitches were almost unplayable, and those are the kind i want to punch the developers/publishers in the throat over.  i didnt come across any game stoppers in kotor2, so other than the dialogue that remains even after explored, and the stuff that was cut out, i just want to see kotor2 pc polished (yes i know thats not what you asked, but meh it fit).

 

Other than the Leopolds Society crash (which is now fixed with the patch), there were no game stoppers. In fact, I never really noticed any annoying bugs. Here and there some choppy framerates, and here and there some "unbalanced" combat (WAHHHH! Or: Read above), but other than that I thought Bloodlines was a Goody Goody.

As for Kotor2, let's wait and see... and drink some tea!

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I guess I'm affected by very few bugs.

 

Trunk in FO2

Not being able to see the character in Revenant

Area transition bug in KotOR.

 

Those are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head.


"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

 

- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

 

"I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta

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Other than the Leopolds Society crash (which is now fixed with the patch), there were no game stoppers. In fact, I never really noticed any annoying bugs. Here and there some choppy framerates, and here and there some "unbalanced" combat (WAHHHH! Or: Read above), but other than that I thought Bloodlines was a Goody Goody.

As for Kotor2, let's wait and see... and drink some tea!

 

then your slowdowns werent as bad as mine. anytime there were more than 3 enemies on screen attacking me, the game became one big slow motion video.

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They bother me lots which is why I return any games with gamestopping bugs.

 

And why I am going to rent KOTOR II (like I did KOTOR) and buy one if I enjoy the game.

 

Having got fed up of the low quality of PC software I switched to consoles and aside from the Xbox havnt really seen much in the way of bugs.

 

The Xbox seems bug prone for some reason.


I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

478327[/snapback]

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Exactly that, it was too combat orientated in the end, and the Sabbat's lair...oh boy, I thought when I'm out of that hole it only can get better...But other than that, Bloodlines was great.

Iam absolutely with you in that case!

 

No. Heck, how do you know?  :ph34r:

It was the delicious bugs recipe you mention before. :(

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Well, torwards the end it was too heavy set on action imho. What especially didnt you like in that parts? What me really pisses off in sabbat's lair was that SPOILER.........they killed my ghulgirl........... SPOILER :( 

Exactly that, it was too combat orientated in the end, and the Sabbat's lair...oh boy, I thought when I'm out of that hole it only can get better... But that wasn't the case. Instead I had to to fight through hordes of silly Kuei-Jin just to furthermore fight a gigantic snail and so forth... In the end, I became pretty "demotivated"... The point is that I had to put all my XP into combat, so that my charming Toreador mutated into a war machine instead of giving me the choice (as every good CRPG should do) to solve quests in a non-Terminator like manner.

But other than that, Bloodlines was great.

 

So, wait, you would talk out of a fight with the fanatical a) sabbat b) society of leopold c) bloodhunt? r00fles comes to mind.

 

And you could skip the kuei-jin part if you wanted. The last part of the game was fine.

 

And moving to the topic at hand. Serious bugs can be game stopping for me (eg. ToEE), others simply make me annoyed (see KOTOR 1 slowdowns before the patches were released), the minor bugs arent that bad, although a lot of them do leave a bad aftertaste.

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So, wait, you would talk out of a fight with the fanatical a) sabbat

You weren't allowed to do anything but fight through the whole den. That is not the approach my Ventrue would have taken. In a PnP session you would have had more options (bring down the building, lure in a team of vampire hunters, deceive them, whatever). You could do nothing but fight. Suckage.

 

 

b) society of leopold

That one should have been able to be solved through stealth. Due to the level design and enemy placement, it was impossible to do it without a slaughter.

 

 

c) bloodhunt?

Yet another part of the game in which you were forced to fight unless you had lots of levels in Obfuscate. No possibility of a stealthy/mental/social approach. That's not V:tM, that's DOOM.

 

 

And you could skip the kuei-jin part if you wanted. The last part of the game was fine.

Not if you wanted to get any ending other than Prince Lacroix. You are forgetting the Nosferatu warrens, too. You could skip that one too, right?

The last part of the game sucked because it completely wasted the mental/social talents your PC had been developing through the whole game, just to favor senseless killing.

 

 

r00fles comes to mind.

R00fles indeed.


- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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So, wait, you would talk out of a fight with the fanatical a) sabbat b) society of leopold c) bloodhunt? r00fles comes to mind.

I didn't say combat is avoidable in such cases, but in Bloodlines, it was definitively unbalanced. Just sending my nicely Toreador down into a pit that gets too repetitive over and over again, plus running out of ammo in the middle isn't exactly my idea of good game design. Even in Kotor, which was basically a hackfest, combat wasn't that repetitive... well maybe in the end, but not so frustrating nonetheless.

Bloodlines did pretty well for the most parts, but the final ones really pissed me off.

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Depends on the severity of the bugs.

 

For exmaple, BL's bugs are pretty big. The memory leak - not sure if that's considered an actual bug - really effected my overall enjoyment of the game. The Leopold Bug would have bothered me as that's a game ender though I was lucky enough not to have it.

 

NWN has its shre of bugs; but most of them - there are some notable exemptions - don't really bother me as they tend to be of the annoying minor variety. ie. a weapon in the hands of a dwarf doing x instead of y damage when used to attack orcs. R00fles!


DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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Yes, in PnP you could do different things, but crpgs are limited. And once again, I'll disagree about the last part of the game sucking because of the increased fighting. Fighting against the Sabbat and the rest of the lot was done properly, from my perspective. No amount of talking or any social skill should have convinced the Sabbat to go on their merry way, with them being quite afraid of grandpa waking. And I had no trouble sneaking through the society... and I was brujah clan.

 

The parts I do agree to sucking was the Kuei-jin part, which could have been done better, but it didnt really put me off that much.

 

However, what did put me off was the warrens, which sucked a lot, and was probably the worst part of the game - it reminded me of FPS games, and why I despise them. Otherwise, I found the last part of the game well done - for a computer game mind you. It wouldnt however have killed them to implement one of the options listed (getting some vampire hunters to clean house, etc), but you cant ask too much.

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Well, it's not only that there were lots of combat. The fact that there were like 4 sidequests in the last part of the game doesn't help much either. I like a bit more of role-playing in my CRPG. :p


- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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Bloodlines sucked because the crappy anticlimax for an ending(dont get me started again). And regarding bugs, they're part of the "tech" category which is removed from my other points of judgement- like KoTOR crashed to desktop every other area load and changed graphics settings all on its own, but I still think it was a great game.

 

 

But a gamestopper is an unforgivable offense. They should decimate(roman style) their QA department as punishment.


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I have hours upon hours of Daggerfall under my belt. That has given me a high tolerance of bugs.

 

To this day the only bug that really affected me was the love letters bug in Torment. I had to restart Torment from the beginning because of it.


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