Magic System Discussion

[Nightwolf]

I loved the first NWN and the Baldur's Gate-series, and even Icewind Dale gave me a fun time. (not ID2, of course.) Kotor was fun, but short and too much nwn-light.

 

Then I heard about Dragon Age. It's created by the same people who made NWN, so can it possibly be any good? Well, doh. It's going to be the best game of all time, even far beyond NWN2.

 

Or so I thought. Last I heard the magic-system in DA will be mana-based. Geez. The entire game ruined in one sentence. Only NWN2 can save me now. Short version, I've never, ever played a game with mana-based magic I actually enjoyed more than a D&D-game. Ever.

 

Please don't screw this up as well.

[Memengwa]

KotOR was kind of mana-system. But the mana got refilled on it's own (without the Diablo mana potions stuff).

 

You only enjoyed it half-way though.. so.. uh.. I'm outta here... :ph34r:

[Judge Hades]

There is nothing wrong with a mana based system if they do it right. Frankly in my current PnP DnD game the DM is using a spell point system using Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed as a base very effectively and allows greater flexibility for the spell caster (such as overchanneling for a greater spell effect).

[Rhomal]

If anyone played the Shadowrun rpg thats how,IMO a magic system should be done. Why WotC kept the 'chalkboard' system in 3E I still to this day cant understand. They had a chance to replace such a poor system.

[Phosphor]

I've no problem with a mana-based magic system. But since NWN2 is D&D, and D&D does not use a mana system, NWN2 will not use a mana system for magic.

[Judge Hades]

A Mana based system does exist in a WotC book. Unearthed Arcana has those rules.

[Baradhel]

A Mana based system does exist in a WotC book.  Unearthed Arcana has those rules. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Unearthed Arcana is such a munchkin book. I'll stick to the regular system thank you very much.

[Volourn]

I dislike mana magic systems; but I have a feeling that other things in DA will make up for BIO's poor choice in that aspect. It takes more than one bad thing to ruin a game unless you are anal.

[Judge Hades]

Only if you implement it worng. I admt that the Bloodlines system is very munchkin and will not see the light of day in my campaign, but the traits and flaw system as well as the Defense/Damage Reduction system will.

[Zhadow]

I love mana-based systems.

If only D&D and NWN was mana based... *Dreams away*

[kirottu]

Actually someone said in the dragon age boards that D&D magic system is mana based. You just previously choose what to do with your mana. He or she said it as answer for someone who was questioning why you "forget" the spell even if you have memorized two of same spells and use only one of them. It definetly makes sense.

[aVENGER]

Last I heard the magic-system in DA will be mana-based. Geez. The entire game ruined in one sentence.

 

In don't really see why this bothers you so much. Dragon Age is not using D&D rules, it's BIO's custom franchise, and they are making the rules system for it.

 

Personally, I'm for the mana system. As much as I like D&D, I always thought its spellcasting system was a bit clunky. At level 1, a fighter can swing his sword for the whole day without suffering fatigue yet a wizard may cast only two magic missiles and that's it? Bah!

[Volourn]

"At level 1, a fighter can swing his sword for the whole day without suffering fatigue yet a wizard may cast only two magic missiles and that's it? Bah!"

 

If you knew anything about D&D; you'd knopw that magic doesn't work like swinging a weapon.

 

Magic does not = just another weapon

 

 

Tsk, tsk.

 

 

P.S. Mana magic systems suck the big one!

 

 

P.S.S. D&D has mana magic too.

[Nightblade]

I want a Rolemaster based crpg.

A complicated system, true, but that's mainly because of all the tables and charts, and all those would be baked in the system in a crpg. Oh, and magic in Rolemaster is mana-based. And there are some 4000+ spells I believe.

[MortalHarmony]

I don't like custom settings. I know that DA will just be generic and dull.

 

I'm following NWN2 because it is FR.

[deganawida]

FR is the definition of "generic and dull".

[Traceroute]

Actually someone said in the dragon age boards that D&D magic system is mana based. You just previously choose what to do with your mana. He or she said it as answer for someone who was questioning why you "forget" the spell even if you have memorized two of same spells and use only one of them. It definetly makes sense.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It is kind of a mana system in that regard, but it's like calling a tomato a fruit. It's technically true, but does anyone really believe it? :D

[Drakron]

The issue is the power curve,even a lv1 wizard can put a entire room to sleep and leave then vunerable to coup-de-grace.

 

Yes he is weak but as he gains levels his weakness became less and less and the fighter just starts to became a puppet against a wizard unless he have anti-charm gear.

 

Problem with D&D is a lot of people look at it on a MMORPG mentality and wants a lv1 wizard to be equal to a lv1 thief as the game is about cooperation of diferent classes and the wizard role is support.

[J.E. Sawyer]

The spell memorization system based off of Jack Vance's "fire and forget" concept has got to be one of the most awful game mechanics ever. It astounds me that people champion it. So, lovers of fire and forget, what are the "pros" of the D&D system?

[deganawida]

Sacred cow. Same reason that the ranger still gets two-weapon fighting and spells, and the fighter is still the only class that gets worse as it increases in power. I say, slaughter the sacred cows and hold a barbeque for a D&D that makes complete sense.

[Orik]

Actually someone said in the dragon age boards that D&D magic system is mana based. You just previously choose what to do with your mana. He or she said it as answer for someone who was questioning why you "forget" the spell even if you have memorized two of same spells and use only one of them. It definetly makes sense.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

While calling the wizard's spell memorisation system in D&D mana-based is tenuous, you CAN say that the sorcerer's system IS mana based.

 

Essentially a sorcerer in D&D uses mana to cast spells, with each spell costing one "mana point". The difference is that they have nine mana-pools to draw on, one for each level.

 

I do find people's knee-jerk reaction to a mana system amusing. Mana systems can be so varied that simply saying "it's a mana system, it'll be crap" shows how shallow their reaction truly is. It's not as if using a mana system means you'll suddenly get Diablo-like magic being spam-cast near infinitely. Not if you don't want it to.

[Volourn]

"Sacred cow."

 

No. Youa re absolutely wrong. D&D magic system is fantatsic. I've expalined why multiple times. Not gonna bother to again until someone gives an actual good reasons why the D&D magic system is as horrible as they claim it to be.

 

To me, it seems most claims of it being horrible are 'it doesn't give me much power as I'd rather spam spells non stop". R00fles!

 

 

And, no, Orik, mana systems buy and large, I have yet to see a good one. At best, they are abrely acceptable ala BL. Otherwise, poo poo is their middle name.

[Pyronius]

Someone please explain why mana based is a bad thing. I couldn't care less if it is mana based or not...

 

Why would mana ruin your day? I think if mana inclusion ruins your day, you have problems. Maybe someone can set me straight and tell me why they give a rats ass whether magic is limited by mana not memory.

 

ANd Orik, great point about the sorc. I was gonna post that myself... Sorcs ARE mana based with each spell costing one mana.

 

Facts are that people are stupid and love drama.

 

Dont like mana=you are stupid. Suck it up. You know you're gonna buy both DA and NWN2.

[aVENGER]

If you knew anything about D&D; you'd knopw that magic doesn't work like swinging a weapon.

 

So? It seems wrong to me from a basic balance perspective.

 

Magic does not = just another weapon

 

No, not all magic, but the majority of spells are used offensively.

[Drakron]

Volourn means the blood point system but its tied to other things and a blood poll cannot be expanded except by lowering generation (at least in VtM) so there are a lot of checks to make sure its not abused.

 

There is a Mage system in World of Darkness but I am not familiar with it, also Werewolves uses a system similar to the blood poll but get a diferent name and its naturaly not tied with drinking blood.

 

The fact is the "Fire and Forget" system works for D&D and alter it would turn it into something else, there is nothing wrong in not like the way D6D deals with magic but to change it is going to mess things up more that turning THAC0 into BAB.