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Obsidians Fall

Viperion

By Viperion
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Viperion

Viperion

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Okay.

 

I agree with you on the random generator problem. It needs to be corrected in any way possible.

 

You get less with the planets? What are you referring to?

 

And if you had the same planets, you would probably be complaining more because of the repetitiveness. And if you choiches were major, like on Mannaan, Kashyyyk, and Tatooine, you could pretty much draw out what was going to happen through your DS/LS choices.

 

Star Forges? There was only one, and if your were LS, then it would have been destroyed. So it is completely destroyed whatever side Revan was on because the story needed it to be? You know how worse the story would have been if they were left in with all of the factions to take ahold of it?

 

The bug you mentioned was the only one I encountered after the second playthrough.

 

As for Obsidian, they had a job on their hands, because they accepted it. A MAJOR job. Following up K1 in the time they were alloted? Bioware couldn't have even done that I bet.

 

 

 

The only reson Obsidion got this was because BIOWARE had thier hands into Jade Empire Microsoft pushed them to put out KOTOR 2 so they had to contract out. Microsoft did have a hand in making this game less than it was but Obsidion could have done better they had the templates. I would have been happy had they improved the graphic qualitys and some game play. As for the planets they took out most of Dantoine there was so much more there they could have left play the old KOTOR again and you'll see what I mean about length. KOTOR 1 was so had so much more there and it was more intercet as well

Darque

Darque

Posted
Posted
It's too bad they deleted my same thread on this.  There was some really good stuff in there.

 

didn't you leave and say you would be glad to be banned :lol:

 

or was that the other person who flipped out today :huh:

LordNihilis

LordNihilis

Posted
Posted
Obsidian really droped the ball on this game.  If they hadnt been stupid and rushed out this for cristmas they might have had a good game.  the story left to many loop holes.  The random genarator sucks.  the lest they could have done is make it do diffenent ofr Light and DS.  I got 2 of those stupid light side crystals while playing the DS and my buddy didnt get one playing LS and he has played it through 4 times now.  And whats with the planets you actually get less with KOTOR 2 than you did with KOTOR.  The least they could have done would have left the star forges in.  YOu cnat even go to have the places you could on Dantoine.

And what happened with Tatooine, Kayshyk and Mannaon?  I just dont get why BIOWARE was thinking when they gave this one to Obsidion.  But I guess they wont make that mistake twice.  Also they leave waqy to many bugs in the system for instance on Telos if you talk to the cornal and the the Fuel bonus mission and talk the dark side point by asking for the finders fee.  even after you talk to the Hut on Nar Shadda and get the deal from him no matter what you do or how many times you go back to telos you cnat get him to talk about it again.  But enough of what I think what do you guys think.  LET YOUR VOICES BE HEARD

 

--------------

All i got to say to this is....

 

I AGREE!

 

The game was good and all but i think Bioware could have crushed Obsidian with the production of this game. KOTOR 1 was so much fun for a Linear RPG. Obsidian ruined that Experience. Sorry Obby, but Bio beats your ass down production wise!

"There is no running or hiding, Jedi. Your times up."

 

-Boba Fett-

BOBAFETT.JPG

Volourn

Volourn

Posted
Posted

"I just dont get why BIOWARE was thinking when they gave this one to Obsidion. But I guess they wont make that mistake twice."

 

R00fles!

 

You do realize that BIO "gave" Obsidian NWN2 - another BIO game sequel?

 

R00fles!

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

Malhavok

Malhavok

Posted
Posted
I may be the only one thoroughly enjoying this game, here at the forums......:p

 

The game is O.K.

 

I don't hate it, but I don't love it in the same way I love the original KOTOR.

 

Things about KOTOR that are better than KOTOR-2:

 

1) KOTOR was slightly more difficult because it wasn't quite as "monty haul" (if people are familiar with that term).

 

2) The characters were alot more developed in terms of backstory with the exception of T3-M4 who has a much bigger role in KOTOR-2. I actually prefer the KOTOR-2 T3-M4 to the original one, he's very much like your own personal R2D2 in the sequel and it was a great move.

 

3) The plot was well thought out and easy to follow. One thing I hate about KOTOR-2 is that much of the plot is obscured in dialogue trees that are either obscured, hard to find, or require specific amounts of influence to get. This was a bad idea, I don't feel like having to play through the game several times "influencing" different characters to discover the story of the game was a good choice.

 

4) Generally much better side quests in the original game. Infact, I can't think of a single 'side quest' in KOTOR-2 that amounted to more than 'fetch the widget' and then 'bring widget to guy'. The Mannan trial from the original game stands out in my mind as a side quest that was really cool and interesting, nothing in KOTOR-2 is on that same level.

 

5) Bastialla :p

 

6) I really miss not having a quest attached to each character like they were in KOTOR-1, it really made you feel like your companions in the game were more than just space taken up on the Ebon Hawk.

 

Infact, the only thing I really like about KOTOR-2 over the original game is the improved workbench and lab stuff, I think thats really neat. Great idea.

 

However, I really hate the random loot code, or atleast I hate how its implemented. I wouldn't mind if there was a mix of stuff you can find that makes sense and then some generally random loot - like if an object is in a Sith tomb, it should draw from Jedi related loot.... instead I find a mandalorian assault armor. Seriously... wtf?

 

I'm not nearly as irrate as some people are, because overall I found the game pretty enjoyable. It is however fairly anti-climatic and overall not same quality of writing as the original KOTOR. I'm not positive that people can blame this solely on the game being "rushed", that I think is an excuse for the technical problems that plague the game. Frankly I just feel that the writers that work for Obsidian are just not quite as creative as the guys Bio-ware has working for them. KOTOR was definately an inspired bit of writing so maybe it would be hard to duplicate that to such a great degree... however it doesn't change the fact that many parts of KOTOR-2 are slapped together rather sloppily and much of the plot is unclear and seems undeveloped.

agentdeadlyangel

agentdeadlyangel

Posted
Posted
The characters were alot more developed in terms of backstory with the exception of T3-M4 who has a much bigger role in KOTOR-2.

 

I would disagree. I thought the characters in KOTOR2 were one of the best aspects of the game. They were very well developed and the voice acting was great as well. Even though Kriea pissed me off sometimes, I never felt like I was being lectured as with Bastilla and Carth. But that was just her character, she was supposed to make you think about your actions and evaluate the situation from all angles before making decisions. Bastilla and Carth just wanted you to be goodie-goodie.

 

Now I'm not trying to say that the characters in Kotor weren't well developed, they were. I am more partial to the characters in Kotor2. Yes, I am one of the few people who like the influence system as well.

 

I do agree with you about T3. He definately has a lot of personality.

 

One thing I hate about KOTOR-2 is that much of the plot is obscured in dialogue trees that are either obscured, hard to find, or require specific amounts of influence to get. This was a bad idea, I don't feel like having to play through the game several times "influencing" different characters to discover the story of the game was a good choice.

 

The plot of the game seemed easy to find in conversations. It was the individual characters backgrounds that you had to influence to get. I much prefer the influence system to the timed system in the first game. In the first game, I never did finish everyone's backstory. The influence system gives you more control over the characters stories. Besides, it is the dialogue trees and characters that made me start this game again.

 

It is refreshing to see someone actually articulate why they liked the first one more rather than "i hated teh ending it was teh SUCK!!!"

 

While I do think the ending wasn't as good as the first, I do see more replay value in this game. When I played Kotor, I only played through it once, reloaded at the unknown planet and played the second ending. What I like about Kotor2 is that I'm getting a different experience the second time through, instead of having one thing to do that can be handled light or dark, there are different sides you can choose and then handle that side light or dark.

bodrock

bodrock

Posted
Posted

It definitely seems KOTOR was more difficult at times, but really, I feel KOTOR2 is easier for me mainly because the combat system was previously mastered.

 

I like the characters in KOTOR2, and although influence is required to really get to know them, I'm okay with that. It seems more natural this way, and although there are some characters I won't know until I replay, it doesn't matter as I know I'll be replaying it anyway. I do agree that each member should have had a sidequest of their own (like in KOTOR), but I enjoy the banter between party members and find Obsidian's writing enjoyable. T3-M4 was definitely given a lot more character, and is the stronger for it.

 

I like the story here, and that it's not as straight-forward -- it's simply different, and depending on how you want it to play out, it's more customizable than the previous game's. I can't wait to see even the minor differences, simply by saying what happened last game (not to mention the cameos I didn't get!).

 

You're right about the variety of side missions -- there could have been more, like the trial at Manaan, or the Jedi-detective stuff. Instead, we have more of a focus on combat, and I did enjoy when the party would be split up.....no one felt useless to me, unlike last time when some party members hardly saw any play, unless I sought to know them more.

 

Bastilla was cool, and

I loved seeing her again in this game! Especially since she was in a holocron at Korriban, talking about the fallout after Revan left!

. However, I think Kreia is a really great character, and feel the others I've gotten to know through influence are good too.

 

I like that your skills matter more in making work/lab bench stuff, as well as some dialogue options. I also love the robes, and the other minor tweaks here and there.

 

The game's presentation could have benefitted from "flashbacks", less loading times, and more polish, but as is, there is no other game I'd rather play.

PlagueWielder

PlagueWielder

Posted
Posted

I don't think it's really fair to put all the blame on Obsidian. Whose idea was it to rush the game out before Christmas? I really don't know, I'm asking. Was it Lucas Arts' idea? Microsoft's idea? Obsidian's?

 

Anyway, the first game came out in July of 2003. This game came out in December 2004. What's that, 15 or 16 months between games? Would it have hurt to delay this game to spring 2005, or maybe even summer 2005? Many people who are complaining about bugs and glitches, probably would be complaining and saying things like, "What's taking them so long to release the game", or "I can't wait for KOTOR 2:TSL." If everyone had been patient, the game might have been released later and with less problems. I guess you can't please everyone. Release the game too late, people complain. Release the game too early, people complain.

 

Also, some people seem to have selective memories regarding KOTOR and KOTOR:TSL. Complaining about the bugs or problems in KOTOR:TSL, but forgetting the problems in the first KOTOR. The first game had slowdown, low framerates, long loading times, the Carth glitch, and the problem some had with the galaxy droid. So many of the same problems found in KOTOR:TSL were also found in the first game. Yet, all hail Bioware and slam Obsidian.

 

So can any of you be sure that this game wouldn't have any bugs or glitches if Bioware had developed it?

 

 

Regarding the random generator, I think it's a good idea. I like the idea of not knowing what you'll get when you open boxes or footlockers, or visit the shops.

 

 

Regarding the topic creator wanting to visit the star forge again. Why would you want to? What purpose would there be in that? Also not being able to go to some other places on Dantooine that you could in the first game. The only places missing are the Sandral home and the cavern where you found the star forge map.

Darth Jebus

Darth Jebus

Posted
Posted

I've eluded to my gripes with KOTOR 2 in earlier posts, but after reading what others have said about it and it's predecessor, I want to elaborate a bit more. Bear with me, this might be kinda lengthy.

 

First of all, my disappointment with KOTOR 2 has everything to do with what it could've been. The plot of the story, I thought, was well thought-out, well concieved and much more intimate than the first KOTOR. But the problem, however, was that it was not well put together.

 

I really liked the fact that this game was focused solely on you. As Kreia delineates early on, the battlefield for this epic is not the places that you visit and the events that you help to shape, but the internal struggle going on within you as you seek to re-establish your connection with the Force and try to understand why the Jedi Council did what they felt they had to do. And thereby, you come to terms with the consequences of your actions from the war so long ago. It's basically like the old saying, "All my sins remembered."

 

This theme is then expaned upon as the game progresses. The whole notion of the Force within you feeling as though it is an echo coming across a great distance is repeated almost to the point of redundancy. This is so you as the player can better understand what is going on here, and later, why the Jedi Council fears you, why the Sith hunt you, and why Kreia feels so strongly about you.

 

As your relationships with the members in your party grow, so too does the plot. I like how the game handles this. By the end of the first game, your companions are firmly by your side even after the big revelation. In fact, even if you chose to recalim your title as the Dark Lord, some of your companions still refuse to give up on you. It was touching but perhaps a littl unrealistic.

 

In this game, your companions intense loyalty to you is explained by your ability to forge bonds with other people through the Force, and, so to speak, feed off of the Force that is within all living things. Again, the theme of your character being an echo in the Force springs up here. This was well developed, I thought, because it just doesn't say that those that follow you do so because they think you are a swell guy or gal. Though they may not know it, they are following you because their subconscious has willed them to you through the Force. Well done.

 

This in turn really spells out what Kreia's plans are for you. By turning away from the Force because of the tragedy that befell Malachor V, you (being the only Jedi in the history of the Order to do such a thing) created a wound in the Force - a dead space, an emptiness - that could spread to all Force practitioners and destroy them. The entire plot of the game revolves around that notion.

 

And this totally sets up the disappointing ending to me. For how the hell could you end a videogame with this kind of deep moral plot that won't end vaguely and ultimately unfinished?

 

You can't.

 

Unless you put the story together better than it was.

 

There were numerous times in the game where I didn't even know what I was going after or why. I had to keep referring to my journal. The whole story with Atris was an enourmous THUD. They could've done SO MUCH MORE with that storyline and her history with you. If you were a male, she loved you and Kreia exploited that.

 

It just seemed that the writing fell short. By the end of the game I couldn't remember a single solitary memorable moment that stayed with me like in the first game. Kriea

turned out to be Darth Traya

and Sion and Nihilus were only a small part of her agenda.

 

The history between Kreia and Sion could've seen MUCH MORE detail.

 

And Nihilus...oh, man...there was the potential to be one of the greatest villains ever created and he turned out to be easier to defeat than a Sith Apprentice.

 

And by the end of this game you are so powerful with the addition of the prestige classes and no cap on leveling up, you are basically Jesus with a lightsaber.

 

And I actually thought there were too many NPCs in your party. I know it was supposed to add to replayability, but with that many NPCs I can see why, at the end of the game, there just wasn't time to tie up all of their stories neatly.

 

I have other gripes about the loop holes and the endless recurring dialogue trees that you couldn't get rid of, but I'd refer folks to Boiler's thread on that.

TentamusDarkblade

TentamusDarkblade

Posted
Posted

Kotor 2 beats Kotor, easy...

 

Kotor2 has shorter load times, better frame rates, larger worlds with more characters on screen making it feel more alive, does away with forced mini-games, give more/better interaction with NPCs, vastly improved on the workbench system, gave us more force powers, improved animations for combat, and gave us a story line that you didn't figure out in the first act (who didn't know they were Revan from the get go?)

 

I realize that folks want to look back at Kotor with rose tinted glasses, but come on...Obsidian took everything Kotor had and made it better. The only screw up is the ambigious ending. Personally, i enjoyed it since i don't need a cheesy award ceremony to validate my gameplay experience.

 

38 hours of great and 2 hours of meh, seems like a pretty good ratio to me.

Kalfear

Kalfear

Posted
Posted
Obsidian really droped the ball on this game.  If they hadnt been stupid and rushed out this for cristmas they might have had a good game.  the story left to many loop holes.  The random genarator sucks.  the lest they could have done is make it do diffenent ofr Light and DS.  I got 2 of those stupid light side crystals while playing the DS and my buddy didnt get one playing LS and he has played it through 4 times now.  And whats with the planets you actually get less with KOTOR 2 than you did with KOTOR.  The least they could have done would have left the star forges in.  YOu cnat even go to have the places you could on Dantoine.

And what happened with Tatooine, Kayshyk and Mannaon?  I just dont get why BIOWARE was thinking when they gave this one to Obsidion.  But I guess they wont make that mistake twice.  Also they leave waqy to many bugs in the system for instance on Telos if you talk to the cornal and the the Fuel bonus mission and talk the dark side point by asking for the finders fee.  even after you talk to the Hut on Nar Shadda and get the deal from him no matter what you do or how many times you go back to telos you cnat get him to talk about it again.  But enough of what I think what do you guys think.  LET YOUR VOICES BE HEARD

 

 

While I agree with many of your points they dont add up to dropping the ball.

 

Yes we should be able to goto all the previously released places (Wookie land would have probably made Hanharr interesting rather then a throw away character). But not being able to doesnt ruin the game.

 

YES, there is alot of things that dont make alot of sence but do they ruin the game? NO

 

Obsidian did a average job on a great product. So while I would love to see the franchise improved each expansion, ill give them props anyways for not lessening the franchise.

Kalfear

 

Disco and Dragons Avatar Enlarged

NeverwinterKnight

NeverwinterKnight

Posted
Posted
...and gave us a story line that you didn't figure out in the first act (who didn't know they were Revan from the get go?)

 

maybe its just me, but i figured

kreia was either a)part of the final encounter or b)the final encounter by the way she was always manipulating me.

i dont see that as any more "mysterious" as how we found out we were revan.

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