Filling in the plot holes at the end...

[Nordak]

kotor2 is just a gonna get us ready for kotor3, although the underdeveloped sith lords was just depressing, in kotor3 they better have at the very least an episode3 type ending or a return of the jedi feel. U kno, somethin thatll let u kno that u accomploshed somethin on a grand scale

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We can hope. But I just get the same feeling I got after watching The Matrix: Reloaded. That there are too many ambigous plotholes to fill in, and it would be very hard to do it and make a good game (or movie). But what would the sequal even be? Fighting the 'hidden' Sith empire perhaps?

[Barachiel]

We can hope.  But I just get the same feeling I got after watching The Matrix: Reloaded.  That there are too many ambigous plotholes to fill in, and it would be very hard to do it and make a good game (or movie).  But what would the sequal even be?  Fighting the 'hidden' Sith empire perhaps?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, but Reloaded and Revolutions were filmed SIMULTANEOUSLY and released within months of each other, much like the Lord of the Rings Trilogy. They were NEVER intended to stand separately from each other, and were designed as such. Also, viewers knew GOING IN that this would be the case (didn't stop the endless whining though).

 

KotOR2 doesn't have that excuse. There has been no announcement of KotOR3 and with the Lucasfilm shuffle going in, I doubt there will be anytime soon, and God only knows who'd be working on it by then. It handled the Sequel part fine. I loved the tips of the hat to the original and they handled it just right. They handled the feel and the atmosphere beautifully. I was completely immersed and loving it. Where this game failed was in the story and how it wove into the characters. Someone said something earlier in this thread that summed everything up perfectly.

 

40 hour game. 38 hours of pure joy followed by 2 hours of pure sh$t. As soon as my roommate completes the DS version, I'm trading this in for MGS3. Whether or not I buy the PC version will depend on if an annoucement is made confirming KotOR3.

[darthillinovex]

Maybe this was already brought up somewhere in these forums but I have no intention of searching through all the threads.

(SPOILER)

I played as LS Jedi and when I fought Darth Sion he said something along the lines of "You will perish like the one that came before you", with regards to whomever visited Mal 5 last. Does this refer to Revan? IS REVAN DEAD?

I feel that he may have been referring to Revan due to the fact that Carth had stated that Revan went to the Outer Rim to face something that he had Just remebered was there and went to take care of. I ask this because if they killed Revan, that would be an outrage beyond anything I could imagine.

(/SPOILER)

[Jedi Master D Murda]

Maybe this was already brought up somewhere in these forums but I have no intention of searching through all the threads. 

(SPOILER)

I played as LS Jedi and when I fought Darth Sion he said something along the lines of "You will perish like the one that came before you", with regards to whomever visited Mal 5 last.  Does this refer to Revan?  IS REVAN DEAD?

I feel that he may have been referring to Revan due to the fact that Carth had stated that Revan went to the Outer Rim to face something that he had  Just remebered was there and went to take care of.  I ask this because if they killed Revan, that would be an outrage beyond anything I could imagine. 

(/SPOILER)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I also thought he was talking about Revan but he was not. Don't know who he was talking about. But you will find out what happens to Revan when you end the game, it's kinda bittersweet but not an outrage.

[Dead Skin Mask]

40 hour game.  38 hours of pure joy followed by 2 hours of pure sh$t.  As soon as my roommate completes the DS version, I'm trading this in for MGS3.  Whether or not I buy the PC version will depend on if an annoucement is made confirming KotOR3.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yep that pretty much sums up my experience with the game. <_< TSL just wasn't finished and it should have never been shiped as is.

 

Cheers!

[Lady Revan]

After reading this entire thread, I can say only that I agree with the majority here. While I loved KOTOR II's darker overall plot, at the end I felt more confused than I had at the beginning. And I hadn't thought that could be possible in a game.

 

My main complaint is the fact that the major ideas seemed hopelessly underdeveloped. As some have said, this is especially obvious with Nihilus. I was terrified of facing the man, but when I actually met him face-to-face, he was a pushover. I had been under the impression that he was to be the big threat, the one that would give you the hardest run.

 

And the whole thing with your character being an echo and a wound that would unravel everything seemed...somehow rushed or not well explained. Perhaps I just went thought the game too fast. I do intend to replay it in a few days.

 

All in all, it's like someone said earlier, it seems like a story that was written a little too fast and things got skimmed over. Or maybe I just wasn't picking up on the nuances here and there.

[DarthPanda]

The dialogue was quite clear about how Kreia and the Exile met, actually...

 

After escaping Peragus Kreia explains that she was looking for the Exile when, by coincidence, she found the Harbinger crippled and inoperative. She was able to locate the Exile in the Harbinger's cargo hold because she was able to pick up his/her "faint thoughts" and hauled him/her back to the Ebon Hawk, which was shot at just as they were jumping into hyperspace (thus causing all the damage and injuries).

 

Presumably HK-50 followed Kreia and the Exile on board, encountered HK-47 (who explains later that since the HK-50s are based on his template, his self-preservation system prevents him from shooting 'himself'), and was forced to dispose of the older model to hide his true function. He then proceeds to destroy the astromechs so that he can spin events to his advantage without conflicting testimony from the other droids, but T3 feigns 'death' and is dumped in the storage room on Peragus instead. This part is all conjecture, of course.

 

As for how Kreia got ahold of the Ebon Hawk is anyone's guess.

Throughout the game there's a lot of talk about how all of the coincidences are events controlled by the Force, so the connection between her being Revan's first and last Master, and the Ebon Hawk being Revan's ship could just be another 'coincidence'.

 

[Shizuka2]

Half the problem with the plot holes is that the writers - deliberately, at least in some cases - left a lot to be read between the lines. The other half of the problem is that you really need to work to get the information. I think that, in the end, it is less a matter that the ideas were underdeveloped than that you do not need to read half of the plot to play through the game.

 

(No real point in spoiler warnings for this thread, right?)

 

G0-T0, for instance will not really talk to you unless you successfully examined the pazaak droid, the swoop droid, did the Bith scientist quest, talked to the droid in the hidden room in Vogga's droid warehouse, *and* had the discussion thread about why you cannot bring droids into the Jekk-Jekk Tarr...

 

Once you do, you find out that he is a Republic droid. And yes, his backstory fits with the betrayal theme that shows up everywhere else.

 

Basically, all the characters are like that, and if you have not explored at least a few of their dialogue threads in depth, trying to figure out the ending is like working a diagramless without all the clues.

 

To start with - here's what I *don't* know: Canderous, HK-47, and Hannharr definitely have more to say, but I have not gotten them to open up yet. The rest, well... I *think* I learned what there was to learn, but I may have missed a trick or two. Any notes on how to get them to open up more fully would be most appreciated.

 

Beginning at the beginning -

 

The Exile ended the Mandalore wars by using a mass-shadow device (some kind of gravity bomb; perhaps a precursor to the Imperial Interdictors?) on Malachor V. That is the initial sound, and almost everything in the game can be understood as an echo of that event. The intensity of the event also led the Exile to completely sever his or her connection with the force, something (to everyone's knowledge then, at least) never before done. The Exile must seem undead to Force users, and if the Jedi are right about the Force being the flow of life, perhaps the Exile is. These two things - the role of the Exile in bringing about just about everything in the KOTOR II present day, and his or her unique freedom from the Force, are what interests Kreia. Remember Kreia's point about planetary manipulation on Nar Shadaa? The Exile is her choice of critical point.

 

Darth Nihilis? Pretty clearly learned his life-eating technique from the Exile (observation, not instruction); his choice of ship also indicates that he was at Malachor V. In the years since, he has refined the technique until he is more hunger than man - the darkness in which all life dies, if I do not misremember Visas Marr. He is extraordinarily dangerous to everyone... except the Exile. After the Exile injures him, he dispenses with playing around and tries to devour the soul, or life force, or just plain Force of his opponent. And it does not work, because the Exile is outside the Force, only accessing it indirectly through Kreia and company. This leaves Nihilis just starving himself to death faster - no wonder he goes down quickly. It is strongly implied that he might have had problems even if he had not faced the Exile at Telos - the discussion with Visas Marr implies that Kreia manipulated Nihilis into going there although there was no Jedi Academy, and that therefore Nihilis would go hungry. Presumably, this means that he gets hungrier when he acts than if he waits, and fighting a Jedi duel must involve a fair amount of exercise. He had the (twisted) Force equivalent of blood-sugar crash.

 

I must disagree that his sole or greatest significance is that he can defeat Kreia, true though it is and important as that is in understanding Kreia's plotting. He is also there to show the Exile what the Exile might become. He is yet another echo of the 'wound in the Force'.

 

Darth Sion? Kreia's apprentice who never got over her. Earlier comments about this in the thread about him marking her but not killing her were very well taken - I will edit in appropriate credit when the search function works again for me. [edit - Maria Caliban, post 55]

 

I see several complaints about G0-T0 and Bao-Dur's droid, both the Ebon Hawk cutscene and at the end. Others have addressed this before, but it keeps coming up, so: G0-T0 does not destroy the droid, he incapacitates it. There's a shower of sparks and it drops to the ground - it does NOT explode. G0-T0 does this to reprogram the droid, with the results seen later. Again as earlier posted [same note about credit where due when I can search| edit Junior, post 62] G0-T0 is perfectly willing to blow up the planet if the Exile so orders, believing that the Exile in making that decision either way will establish a stable religion for this section of the galaxy. His interest is not blowing it up too soon if at all, because Bao-Dur wants it blown up regardless in order to expiate his guilt in creating the mass-shadow device.

 

What comes next? There are so many hints about an empire of True Sith out there that this seems the obvious course.

 

What came before? I wish I knew better; DarthPanda's reconstruction of how HK-47, T3, Kreia, HK-50, and the Exile ended up on the Ebon Hawk sounds good to me. I will go one step further and say that Kreia knows more about that empire - or whatever it is that Revan went after - than she let on. I suspect that she saw Revan there, or at least picked up the Ebon Hawk there, and returned seeking to destroy the force so that she (and everyone else, not that she cared) could find her own destiny.

 

Questions that remain - the HK-50s. Sure, G0-T0 says he purchased the loyalty of several - but not *all* of them, and there's a factory out there. Who's running it? It's not G0-T0 - he discovered what they were up to, and then exploited the information, but he didn't program the 'wanton slaughter' into them. Also, G0-T0 implies that HK-50 core programming involved getting the exile, contracts aside. Obvious candidates are Czerka (a Czerka executive built HK-47, as I recall) or HK-47's last(?) master Revan, or maybe even someone higher than G0-T0 in the Exchange. I do hope that HK-47's dialogue settles some of these things for me, some of his early comments about the use of the sonic sensor imply that it can be done.

 

One thing that I think we have mostly missed is the power of negative influence. The designers repeatedly stated that both high and low influence have their uses, and given that influence and alignment correlate positively, my bet is that you can train people to be Jedi just as well with low influence. They may hate you, but that just means that you have a party member with access to the other side's Force powers on the cheap. Possibly, they actually betray you - I do not know of anyone who has spent a full game angering their party as much as possible, or even specific individuals within the party, Kreia aside.

 

Side-notes: the Sith ritual is pretty clearly about controlling the beasts to attack the Queen. The comments made by the final opponents in Freedon's tomb are about how they just need to keep it going, and how it is too late to stop them fit perfectly with the giant beast assaulting the forcefield, and then turning on everyone.

 

The constant stream of Sith Lords/Marauders/Assassins at the end, although irritating as gameplay, makes plot sense. It isn't that somehow Kreia or Sion gathered more Force-sensitives than the galaxy had seen in millenia in one place, and trained them to mastery - they are just reflections. They are ordinary, perhaps slightly Force-sensitive people who learned the art of feeding off the Force as Kreia explained early on. They were weak then because the Exile was weak then; by Malachor V the Exile is a major player, and therefore so are they. If you assume that they tap into their target's Force channel - and you are drawing on the Force, even if indirectly - while Nihilis draws on his target's life through its inevitable connection to the force (absent in the case of the Exile), then their ability to do so makes sense despite Nihilis' incapacity. That may be stretching things, though.

 

Why do the Sith matter to anyone but the hunted Jedi? What do informed people think the Sith will do when they decide they have caught the last Jedi? Right, come out and start in on the less Force-Sensitive population.

 

Is the Malachor academy ancient? I had rather gotten the impression that it was new - founded by Revan for his conversion purposes, and then appropriated by Treia and co.

 

The Mira/Hanharr confrontation - maybe Kreia's twisted little gift to your apprentice, in hopes of making her stronger? Something she saw in the force? A way to set up Mira for her own spin-off?

 

 

Things I would really like to know - low influence results for all, HK-47 full influence, Mandalore full influence, Hanharr full influence, if anyone had a payoff for convincing Viklu's subordinate to help blow up Nihilis' ship, if anyone could cleanse the areas of dark energy at Freedon Nadd's tomb.

 

Stinger - Who else _loved_ Kreia's response to a Light Side attempt to redeem her at the end? I found that a perfect capstone to a great (although, as she admits) not very charismatic character.

[junior]

Questions that remain - the HK-50s.  Sure, G0-T0 says he purchased the loyalty of several - but that's not all of them, and there's a factory out there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Presumeably, this would have been a part of the "HK-50 factory" mission, but this particular mission was cut at the last second.

[Shizuka2]

Questions that remain - the HK-50s.  Sure, G0-T0 says he purchased the loyalty of several - but that's not all of them, and there's a factory out there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Presumeably, this would have been a part of the "HK-50 factory" mission, but this particular mission was cut at the last second.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Ah.

 

Pity.

 

Actually, stronger language would be appropriate. Then again, it looks the level designers were overworked as it is. No wonder I could not get that sonic sensor to trigger a traceback to the factory.

[junior]

Someone posted what appears to be a picture from that level that apparently turned up in the Prima Guide, so apparently it was a VERY last minute cut from the game.

 

And yeah, there's a lot of disappointment all around over it.

 

Still, there's about a 0.000001% that Raven will make it the subject of the next Star Wars FPS game, and stranger things have happened...

 

[montrossx]

In general the whole thing is confusing, but specifically at the end.

 

Maybe I did something wrong but,  Mira.. defeats the wookie, says she has to hurry off to do something (I assumed help me) but doesn't show up.  The little remote is ready for a standoff with GO-TO, but we never come back to it.  Kreia talks about all these 'force sensitives' but I never got enough influence to make any of them jedi so that was weird. (I thought I would lose influence if I told the HM to put on clothes, got no where with Atton, had Mira for a NY minute, and for some reason Bao-Dur's option never came up, even though I used him all the time).

 

It really feels like they had more planned for the end - either I did something so that it didn't happen or they just ran out of time to finish it.

 

I read this post and I tell you..you nailed it right on!!!! Mira defeats the wookie, and runs off...and according to Kriea she lives a long just life (in my LS ending)..well how in the world did she get off the exploding planet???? I mean come on already!!! Also, the whole bit with the droid standoff where the bomb was going to be triggered was just left hanging...but the world blew up anyways.

 

If you go back and look at the movies you can watch, I believe one is called death or destruction of the Ebon Hawk. This shows the EH crippled from the crash landing then falling into a green pit..killing Atton and all the rest. Yet Kreia states they all live at least past this. Then when the game ends here comes the Ebon Hawk in great condition as you fly off into the sunset so to speak. What???? Are you kidding me???

 

I feel that Obsidian was working on this ending part and had it done where Mira was running to help I assume..and the droids were waiting for a standoff. Then Obsidian got a call stating "finish this game now we want it out for Xmas" from LucasArts. So the Devs scripted a quick text-based ending for the game and pulled the Ebon Hawk out of thin air to take your PC away.

 

This in itself should make reviewers think twice about giving this game 9/10s and 4.5 out of 5s. Are these reviewers paid off in sublte ways to make sure a big time game gets props or do they actually not play the whole game they review?

 

I honestly would give this game a 6 or 7 out of 10...there are major flaws and I don't rank this up there with some of the great RPGs of our time.

[junior]

Eh...?

 

I got the "Ebon Hawk Falling" sequence as part of my normal gameplay.

 

 

 

That, to me, explained how it got free of where it was wedged in when it crash landed on the planet.

 

Nor do I have a problem with the Goto/Remote stand off. Goto flat out says that they'll wait for word from the Exile before doing anything. Why would he do that if all he was concerned about was not blowing up the planet? Why not just instantly fry the Remote?

 

Goto's primary motivation in the Jedi/Sith conflict is to make certain that there is an order of Force users who will shepherd the Republic. He doesn't care if its the Jedi or the Sith who are acting in that role, so long as one of them is present. And he leaves it up to the Exile to figure out which side will have the job.

 

As such, his confrontation with the Remote makes perfect sense. The Remote is going to blow the planet up. Goto realizes that there is a possibility that the Exile will decide that the Sith should lead, and set up shop at the Academy on Malakor V. Obviously, this isn't going to work if the planet has been destroyed, so Goto arrives to make certain that the Remote doesn't blow the planet up unless the Exile specifically orders that it take place.

 

Perhaps the developers should have specifically included a scene where the Exile orders that the planet be destroyed, and Goto allows the Remote to finish the job that it started. It would certainly clear up confusion. I'm pretty certain that's exactly what takes place - only we don't see it personally.

 

 

[DarthPanda]

Didn't HK-47 state that he was created, or at least comissioned, by Revan in KotOR 1? I could swear I remember dialogue about that.

[Lifthransir Bane]

I agree...I was like..'Yeah! I won!" and then I was like..."Uh...what the hell just went down?"...Darth Nihilis: "I can destroy entire worlds...but please..don't hit me three times with a lightsaber." When I first saw him I was like 'Damn..that's one bad mutha...and then he fell without even a struggle. I dunno...I had fun and will play it again..I just felt things were a bit less than flowing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There's a subtheme here if you talk to atton, HK and kreia enough. That is that jedi are most easily defeatable when you fight them psychologically, when you take away that which they care about. The game is arguing that it's the dialogue options that weaken and do in Darth Nihilis.

 

Darth Nihilis-I think his point in the story is to make the exile feel bad for destroying malachor V. He is supposed to be the physical embodiment of the exile's sin. When the exile casts off that sin, nihilis ceases to exist. If the exile embraces that sin, he take nihilis into him, and it is thusly no longer necessary for nihilis to exist.

 

Darth Sion-don't get him, except for the fact that he's jealous of your apprenticeship to kreia.

 

Kreia-I think that killing the force stuff was just a load of crap she told atris to get you to come to malachor and realize that sacrifice is necessary-like revan did. The only thing I really buy about kreia is what sion says when you ask him in korriban what she wants with you, "She hopes to train one as great as her first." I think her own death was part of it.

 

Go-to and bao-dur's droid: There is no possible explanation for this not being resolved.

 

Allies-I think the point is that your allies aren't dead-they merely didn't come with you except for go-to, the sphere and presumalby T3 to fly the plane. Bao-dur hints at this (though not of t3).

 

However, that doesn't explain what the hell mira is doing on malachor if you're LS.

 

 

Overall I think this is a richer and more ambitious story than Kotor's. But with more ambition comes more room for error. I consider the part from sion to traya and the FMV all the ending, so it was okay for me. Obsidian certainly did a much better job than could be expected being that kotor was such a closed and simple story. Good sequels take a universe and build outward from it not onto the end. this one did just that.

[Shizuka2]

Eh...?

 

I got the "Ebon Hawk Falling" sequence as part of my normal gameplay. 

 

 

 

That, to me, explained how it got free of where it was wedged in when it crash landed on the planet.

 

Nor do I have a problem with the Goto/Remote stand off.  Goto flat out says that they'll wait for word from the Exile before doing anything.  Why would he do that if all he was concerned about was not blowing up the planet?  Why not just instantly fry the Remote?

 

Goto's primary motivation in the Jedi/Sith conflict is to make certain that there is an order of Force users who will shepherd the Republic.  He doesn't care if its the Jedi or the Sith who are acting in that role, so long as one of them is present.  And he leaves it up to the Exile to figure out which side will have the job.

 

As such, his confrontation with the Remote makes perfect sense.  The Remote is going to blow the planet up.  Goto realizes that there is a possibility that the Exile will decide that the Sith should lead, and set up shop at the Academy on Malakor V.  Obviously, this isn't going to work if the planet has been destroyed, so Goto arrives to make certain that the Remote doesn't blow the planet up unless the Exile specifically orders that it take place.

 

Perhaps the developers should have specifically included a scene where the Exile orders that the planet be destroyed, and Goto allows the Remote to finish the job that it started.  It would certainly clear up confusion.  I'm pretty certain that's exactly what takes place - only we don't see it personally.

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Concur generally, and would only add that they do have such a scene, but it's easy to miss. In the confrontation with Kreia, the Exile can either mention the mass-shadow device and threaten to blow up the planet, or assert that Kreia will die, but the planet will remain. And so it comes to pass.

 

On HK-47 and Revan, I think you're right. But his first owner post-Revan was a Czerka exec, I think - he's the earliest you can backtrack before you know you're Revan.

 

As for what happened to your allies on Malachor V? Frankly, the generous explanation is that they wanted you to feel like you had just been in wreck - disoriented, alone, and troubled. Certainly, Malachor V made me feel like I had been hit over the head. Violently. Less charitably, they hadn't finished. Actually, when I saw Mira, I thought "aha! That's why it's Exile only at the moment! Everyone is going to get their own capstone vignette on Malachor V!" Alas, no. Kreia, Bao-Dur, G0-T0, Mira, and Hanharr are all. Visas Marr and Mandalore I can perhaps forgive for Marr's meditation chamber on Nihilis' ship and Mandalore's bombing sequence, but everyone else deserved better. Atton? MIA. T3? MIA. HK-47? Ok, so his capstone was the HK factory, and was cut, so that (unforgivably) explains why he wouldn't have an event on Malachor V. Disciple/Handmaiden? MIA.

 

What it really looks like is that they were setting up a series of one on one confrontations, not necessarily in combat, on Malachor V - Exile v. Kreia, Mira v. Hanharr, G0-T0 v. Bao-Dur - but canceled the rest, perhaps because of the myriad possibilities of influence. What would it have been, I wonder? T3 v. HK-47? (I retain a sneaking suspicion that HK-47 had been out of commission for a loooong time, and that T3 did him in - that scene when HK tries to press his recovering memories is priceless - although the alternative thought that HK-50 took him down just before the beginning has its points). That would leave Atton, Visas Marr, Mandalore, and the Handmaiden/Disciple to pair up properly. Sooo.... Atton spars (verbally) with Visas Marr, and, uncomfortable with what she can *see* in him, chooses to vanish? Mandalore counsels the Handmaiden/Disciple that the road of loyalty to such a Jedi/Sith can be rockier than he or she might think setting out? Thoughts, anyone?

[Darth Rellik]

Sadly, I agree, when I read reviews I was like how could the ending be bad...and then bam, out of nowhere the game just ends, wihtout any closure....I was kinda pissed, I didt it darkside male pc and revan darkside male.

 

Sion and Nihilus were sooooo ****in underdeveloped characters it was depressing....you didn't know anythign about them at all!

 

I mean, the game was much better than kotor 1 and all the things and the storyline was better, its just that they didnt go where they could have with the story....and that was a big mistake by their devs.

 

But it does leave a good story for kotor 3....I'll be looking forward to that, but I wish the cutscenes at the end were better....and we knew a few things about the MAIN BAD GUY WHOS FACE WAS PUMPED ON EVERYTHING FOR THE LONGEST TIME AND THEN U DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HIM IN THE GAME AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (nihilus)

 

sigh.....

 

Also, where the hell is the droid chassis for hk47, how did anyone get him, and can u get him early?

And how did ppl get the message from bastilla in t3...I never saw that....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

you can find the chassis from a merchent outside khoonda on dantooine, or at least I did(stupid random loot system)

[Wing]

Yes, this game definetly leaves alot unsaid. Maybe the PC version will have the last minute dropped content like HK factory and that'll explain more? Personally i think Nihilis was kinda a joke. His name comes from latin word nihil which means nothing, i think, and he had nothing to do with the plot. =D good one Obsidian!

[Doright]

As for what happened to your allies on Malachor V? Frankly, the generous explanation is that they wanted you to feel like you had just been in wreck - disoriented, alone, and troubled. Certainly, Malachor V made me feel like I had been hit over the head. Violently. Less charitably, they hadn't finished. Actually, when I saw Mira, I thought "aha! That's why it's Exile only at the moment! Everyone is going to get their own capstone vignette on Malachor V!" Alas, no. Kreia, Bao-Dur, G0-T0, Mira, and Hanharr are all. Visas Marr and Mandalore I can perhaps forgive for Marr's meditation chamber on Nihilis' ship and Mandalore's bombing sequence, but everyone else deserved better. Atton? MIA. T3? MIA. HK-47? Ok, so his capstone was the HK factory, and was cut, so that (unforgivably) explains why he wouldn't have an event on Malachor V. Disciple/Handmaiden? MIA.

 

I only finished with LS male so I don't know about Disiple but Handmaiden had a good wrap up earlier in the game when she faced Atris and her sisters. There was also that cool scene where she revield her name to you. I got the feeling that was the wrap up to her story. And unless you actually go into your party selection and add her to your party when your back on teh Telos station you'd wouldn't see her again after that.

 

I think there is something too the fact that when you arrive on the station and its under attack the game gives you Anton and no one else. I thought that was odd. but I didn't think nothing of it because I went in and changed to Handmaiden and Mira.

[stoffe -mkb-]

On HK-47 and Revan, I think you're right.  But his first owner post-Revan was a Czerka exec, I think - he's the earliest you can backtrack before you know you're Revan. 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

HK47s owner history, according to his own memories of his past, was:

Revan --> Mandalorian Soldier --> Hutt Gangster ---> Coruscant Senator --> Systech Corp official ---> Yuka Laka ---> Revan.

 

In the conversation option with HK-47 that appears after the Leviathan, we also learn that Revan was the one who created HK-47. Some screenshots of that dialog, below:

 

HK-47 Creator 1

HK-47 Creator 2

HK-47 Creator 3

HK-47 Creator 4

[darth_nemisis]

I have a few questions.

 

1. What the heck happened? Has anyone figured out what Nihilis's, and Sion's point in the game was?

 

2. Why didn't I see Carth or Bastilla? I don't remember Kreia saying anything about Revan's plans.

 

3. Did anyone find the dark green saber? I only found the original, orange and silver. I want the dark green! And where is the lighter colors?

 

About those pictures of HK-47, he says you are his master? Why doesn't he say Revan is his master? (I didn't finish him until I went to telos the second time and never gained enough influence.) And that happened after you saw the Leviathan? WHere was that?

[Darth Rowland]

I have a few questions.

 

1. What the heck happened? Has anyone figured out what Nihilis's, and Sion's point in the game was?

 

2. Why didn't I see Carth or Bastilla? I don't remember Kreia saying anything about Revan's plans.

 

3. Did anyone find the dark green saber? I only found the original, orange and silver. I want the dark green! And where is the lighter colors?

 

About those pictures of HK-47, he says you are his master? Why doesn't he say Revan is his master? (I didn't finish him until I went to telos the second time and never gained enough influence.) And that happened after you saw the Leviathan? WHere was that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

those screen shots are from KOTOR I "

[Shizuka2]

Stoffe, thanks for the correction. I have not played KOTOR I in a long time, and must have confused the Systech official with a Czerka one.

 

Doright, I will look forward to seeing the Handmaiden confrontation. My first playthrough was with a LS female, so I missed that entirely. The Disciple had a lot of good interaction with Kreia, but I could not escape the feeling that there was meant to be more, perhaps including some connection to the Republic intel agency he's working for.

[darth_nemisis]

Oh, my bad. I never saw that in the first one. :">

[dws90]

I believe that Kreia was trying to get revenge, and was using those she was exacting her revenge on to exact that revenge. She is the Lord of Betrayal, after all.

 

The list already mentioned was:

Sion, Nihilus, the Jedi Council, and the Force.

 

My guess is that, sometime after the battle between Nihilus, Sion and Kreia, she returns to the Academy and makes amends with them, even though she actually hates them. She coordinates the attack on the Ebon Hawk by Sion with the known location of the Harbinger, and sets the plan into motion. Her encounter with Sion on the Harbinger was merely verebly fun between two (fake) friends. He cut off her hand to show the Exile the bond and to make the Exile respect that she sacrificed herself for him. She then uses the Exile to draw out the Jedi, deals with them, then signais Nihilus to attack Telos, allowing the Exile to board and destroy his ship. Two targets down, two remain. She then uses the Exile to kill Sion on Melachor V. Then her deal with the Force plan is a bit sketchy.

 

Justification for this? She says, while inabount to Telos, "Many paths lead to Telos" The only path she could have known of at the time was the Exile's, but with this theory, she was leading Nihilus there also.

 

Since this thread also seems to be complaining about the game, I'll put in my 2 cents:

 

My primary problem was the lack of a visible villian. In KotoR 1, I knew from the very beginning who the primary bad guy was: Malak. Thus, I grew to hate him. In this game, however, we weren't told what was going on villian-wise until halfway through the game. We didn't know Sion's name until Korriban, and Nihilus's name isn't even mentioned in the game's dialog! It appears in the journal on the Ravanger, and floating above his head. That's it. And the main bad guy of the game, Kreia, is the first person you see outside the prologue, yet you don't know of her villainness until about an hour before the final battle. I like having a general goal from the beginning in RPG's, in KotoR's one case, defeat Malak. In KotoR II's case, it was to stop two nameless things that appeared on the cover. And it wasn't really, either.

 

Oh well. The Basilisk insertion scene makes everything alright .

 

My main question: The Ravanger was the same model ship as Saul Karath's. They weren't of Star Forge creation, as the Ravanger was used during the Mandalorian Wars, before Revan uncovered the Star Maps. They also aren't like any Republic ships we've seen. It is also unlikely that they are ships of the original Sith Empire, as they were fighting for the Republic during the Mandalorian Wars, and the Republic wouldn't like it if their primary commander ran off into Sith space and returned with a fleet of Sith ships during a fight for survival. So, what are they?