Designer Ramblings: Beyond Kotor 2

[Planar Jedi]

Well i am not trying to find excuses, but probably this game is going to have a sequel, so maybe lucasarts pressed obsidian to leave things open

[Tainted Mustard]

Well i am not trying to find excuses, but probably this game is going to have a sequel, so maybe lucasarts pressed obsidian to leave things open

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Honestly, I wouldn't mind the ending as much, but the 'splash screens' seemed to come too early for me. I liked a lot of the new characters from this game, and it seemed like Obsidian was quick to abandon them with a few pieces of dialogue that really don't do them justice. They weren't developed fully enough and to have their futures revealed so soon, it's frustrating. I'd have preferred such things be left to a finale.

 

That said, there's a lot of vagueness to them, but it still seemed as if Obsidian was trying to provide closure. If they were, they failed.

 

[nightcleaver]

Meh. I guess I'm the only one that didn't mind the ending so much.

 

Frankly, I think the problem is that there just isn't as much direct interaction between them and your PC. The end of KotOR I, might I remind you, doesn't even suggest what happens afterward, though the companion quests reach a conclusion you can feel, which isn't true in this sequel. The sequel sort of dumps you with the companions, but tells you what happens after. The ending is given to you in a vague way, and in certain ways it's effective, and personally, I really liked it. I would've wanted to talk to my team-members one last time, before the end... but I said that about the first game, didn't I?

[Tainted Mustard]

What did you like about the ending?

[nightcleaver]

Ok, spoiler:

 

 

I liked the whole, "Where you will go, no one can follow," and that it's implied (or said?) that you will be going where Revan, your other PC and current PC's all-important leader, went. Somehow the mystery of it doesn't matter... it's weird. It all leads to this moment... it's a strange feeling, like dying and going to heaven, except it's pretty danged far from being heaven, and is sacrifice for other people. It's the same thing I liked about PS: T, but like planescape, it makes me feel like not playing it again.

 

[Vyperhand]

Did I miss something or did this get dropped from the game entirely?

 

I got nothing even vaguely like this at the ending - LSM.

[nightcleaver]

Did you talk to Kreia?

[Vyperhand]

Yes, I talked to Kreia about every single companion, and got no scenes and limited dialog.

 

Edit: I did get told I loved Visas, to boot. (Really? I missed that somewhere.)

 

This despite taking all the most romance-like options with the Handmaiden.

[nightcleaver]

Yup. It was incomplete.

[junior]

 

 

I think the main thing is, KotOR1 doesn't suggest that anything unusual will happen after the game is over. It has closure in that you have a fairly static situation at the end. Your don't have to wonder and guess about what's going to happen next. And it answers most of the questions you might have had. KotOR2 doesn't end like that. It ends, and the situation is largely unstable. The only thing that you really know at the end is that you're going to be leaving your friends and allies. You don't even exactly know where you're going or what you're going to be facing. You just know that you're going somewhere. The game ends with you facing a very personal and very immediate problem that you know pretty much nothing about.

 

That's the kind of situation you should be dealing with at the start of the game, not the end of it.

 

 

[Judge Hades]

If this game is supposed to have a sequel its rather stupid to have your character end it with a level higher than 20th. Doesn't leave much room for further advancement. Same goes to your companions, unless KotOR3 will do another complete washing of characters but then there goes continuity.

 

Very bad move in my opinion.

[Drakron]

Hades you know until they turn the d20 in a complete joke of what is meant to be (99+ levels, getting all the feats, etc ...) you know the KotOR fans will not give it a rest ... they are not roleplayers.

 

If OE that is have staff that worked in RPGs did not care you think anyone else will?

[Judge Hades]

Well, I care dammit.

 

What the hell happen to good gaming integrity?

[Drakron]

It was replaced with making a buck.

 

Years ago we had people working on games because they wanted to make a good game, when it started to be profitable the suits moved in and it became all about money.

 

You know why we got D&D 3.5?

 

Because WotC wanted to sell the same books again.

[nightcleaver]

I don't care if they completely piss on the d20 rules, as long as they make a good game.

[DarthShad]

I don't care if they completely piss on the d20 rules, as long as they make a good game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree with 100%. I don't understand too much of the d20 rules so this is not a problem in my book. I want to be entertained with a good story. That is all.

[Judge Hades]

I don't care if they completely piss on the d20 rules, as long as they make a good game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Good for you, but there are some of us who do care about the rules system. I don't care if they use the rules system or make up their own, but if they are going to use it they need to adhere to it.

[Drakron]

I don't care if they completely piss on the d20 rules, as long as they make a good game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Its pretty stupid to use a RPG system on a adventure game.

 

KotOR games are not RPGs, a RPG that is "press a buttom and wait" is not a RPG, its a adventure game with combat.

[nightcleaver]

Good. At least you're a minority.

 

 

Oh, and I said A GOOD game; not Diablo 3.

[GhostofAnakin]

Its pretty stupid to use a RPG system on a adventure game.

 

KotOR games are not RPGs, a RPG that is "press a buttom and wait" is not a RPG, its a adventure game with combat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So then NWN and BG are also not considered RPG by your definition?

[DarthShad]

Let me guess...Hades and Drakron will probably reply that there not becuase of the d20 rules that where not implemented properly...and so on and so forth...

 

As much as I respect Hades' and Drakron's opinions...well it gets a little old to hear the same rumbling all the time...it is very simple: if you guys don't like the game, then don't buy it. Nobody is forcing you...

[GhostofAnakin]

Hey, I don't mind them having their opinion. I just have an issue with Drakron's statement about KOTOR not being a RPG because all you do is click once or whatever his exact quote was. That's clutching at straws on his part in a vain attempt to support his arguments against a game he clearly dislikes.

 

edit: sorry, his quote was "press a button and wait".

[Drakron]

First you dont just click and wait, in BG series that was set in AD&D 2nd edition rules were there are no combat feats but without buffs and heals you be screwed all the time, in many situations magical support was the way to win.

 

As in NwN that I did not played that much you need to use feats and/or spells to survive, I get my ass handed to me in HotU if I made a mistake in combat.

 

KotOR have no depth in combat most of the time, using a feat or spell ... sorry, Farce ... I mean Force power is not going to have much of a impact, with a few excepts enemies are easy.

 

Oh and in Diablo ... sorry you need to keep clicking to attack, a anoying feature of combat system (Sacred also have it) with I dislike.

[drcloak]

First you dont just click and wait, in BG series that was set in AD&D 2nd edition rules were there are no combat feats but without buffs and heals you be screwed all the time, in many situations magical support was the way to win.

 

As in NwN that I did not played that much you need to use feats and/or spells to survive, I get my ass handed to me in HotU if I made a mistake in combat.

 

KotOR have no depth in combat most of the time, using a feat or spell ... sorry, Farce ... I mean Force power is not going to have much of a impact, with a few excepts enemies are easy.

 

Oh and in Diablo ... sorry you need to keep clicking to attack, a anoying feature of combat system (Sacred also have it) with I dislike.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Didn't Feargus of Obsidian refer to Diablo as an RPG? roflmao

 

- dr cloak

[GhostofAnakin]

First you dont just click and wait, in BG series that was set in AD&D 2nd edition rules were there are no combat feats but without buffs and heals you be screwed all the time, in many situations magical support was the way to win.

 

As in NwN that I did not played that much you need to use feats and/or spells to survive, I get my ass handed to me in HotU if I made a mistake in combat.

 

KotOR have no depth in combat most of the time, using a feat or spell ... sorry, Farce ... I mean Force power is not going to have much of a impact, with a few excepts enemies are easy.

 

Oh and in Diablo ... sorry you need to keep clicking to attack, a anoying feature of combat system (Sacred also have it) with I dislike.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There was more to just "press a button and wait" in KOTOR as well. You don't need to lie about its simplicity to try and prove a point.

 

When I played BG2, if I pressed the button once, my character would take on an enemy until either he or I died. Yes, you could do other things, but technically you could let it "auto fight" for you, just like KOTOR. Same with NWN.

 

So singling out KOTOR for this aspect is an out and out lie.