Gromnir Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Batman is an excellent hand to hand fighter, but that doesn't necesarily mean he has to be a big guy. no, but the fact that batman has always been depicted as a big guy DOES mean he should be a big guy. besides, as 'tween a small, fast, cunning and intelligent person and a big, fast, cunning and intelligent person, we put our money on the big guy every time. there is a reason why wrestling and boxing has weight classes. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnDoe Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Batman is an excellent hand to hand fighter, but that doesn't necesarily mean he has to be a big guy. no, but the fact that batman has always been depicted as a big guy DOES mean he should be a big guy. Not really. He had muscles but is not always drawn as a big guy. And muscles can easily be developed in preperation for his role (See Will Smith as Ali). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnDoe Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 besides, as 'tween a small, fast, cunning and intelligent person and a big, fast, cunning and intelligent person, we put our money on the big guy every time. there is a reason why wrestling and boxing has weight classes. Bah, Batman kicked Supermans ass plenty of times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Batman is an excellent hand to hand fighter, but that doesn't necesarily mean he has to be a big guy. no, but the fact that batman has always been depicted as a big guy DOES mean he should be a big guy. Not really. He had muscles but is not always drawn as a big guy. And muscles can easily be developed in preperation for his role (See Will Smith as Ali). sure he is. batman has always been big and buff... and unlike will smith (who were at least tall to begin with,) christian bale did not bulk up for batman. if he had, Gromnir would not have noted christian bale "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderAndrew Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 I think they should have killed Superman off for good. The guy is boring. I always liked to wrestle people much higher than me in my weight class. I actually did better than when wrestling in my own weight class. I largely use my speed to my advantage, but those in my weight class were almost as quick as me, and often stronger. The key to any fight is fighting on your terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diogo Ribeiro Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 2. It seems that the movie will finally accurately portray the relationship between Alfred and Bruce. In the comics, Alfred is as much Bruce's confidant as he is his butler, and has proven time and again to be a kind of mentor to Bruce. Note the scene, presumably at the funeral, where Alfred is comforting Bruce. Very promising. Can't wait for the love scenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deganawida Posted July 29, 2004 Author Share Posted July 29, 2004 the only thing that bothers us 'bout the new batman movie is that christian bale is a scrawny little fella. http://www.empiremovies.com/gallery/batman...ns_images.shtml we know that these guys has to be skinny little twerps so they can fit in the suit, but it still bothers us just a little that batman looks like somebody our sister could dip. HA! Good Fun! This is somewhat problematic to me, as well, as Batman has always been depicted as a large man. He is, according to the comics, 6'2" and 210 lbs (vital statistics can be found here); while he is often depicted as lean over bulky (though Miller did a great bulky Bats, as did Jim Lee in "Hush"), he is definitely larger than your average athlete (he's Olympic-class). It seems that finding an actor who matches Batman physically is problematic for all Batman directors; I certainly wouldn't call Keaton a paragon of physical fitness (he's a pigeon-chested tosser), and Kilmer, while muscled enough for some of his roles (The Ghost and the Darkness) doesn't approach the level needed for Batman. I'm not even going to touch Clooney. All this said, I am not too worried about it, as Bale seems to possess one characteristic that previous Batman actors did not: intensity. Bale in the trailer came off as one very intense individual; if an average person had heard Bruce Wayne say that in a conversation with him, I imagine that said person who feel quite uncomfortable. Bale comes across as being totally dedicated to his cause, while previous actors have portrayed the Batman as a playboy's hobby or eccentricty. Given that Bale seems to have gotten the personality of Bruce/Bats down pat, I can overlook the failure in finding an actor who matches perfectly Batman's physical qualifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Kitty Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Bale is 6'2 and I recall him being fairly buff in Reign of Fire. He may not be up to comic book standards (just as no actress has breasts the size of their comic book counterpart) but I'd hardly call him a shrimp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Child of Flame Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Well, correct me if I'm wrong (I'm really not all that much of a DC Comics afficiando), but doesn't Bats use mostly martial arts schools of fighting? If so, I'd definitely have to say that though he may be portrayed as a big guy in the comics, from what I've seen, in martial arts, small guys are often times more than a match for thier bigger counterparts. I mean, look at where the majority of the commonly taught styles come from.....ASIA. It's extremely rare to find a large oriental man, sure it happens (case in point, Yao), but not often. Large guys really aren't usually smaller than a similarly built small guy, simple because there's more of them to move, though they would have a longer striking distance. <shrugs> In that kind of fighting, I think speed matters more than any size difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diogo Ribeiro Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 That i recall, he is an expert in all known forms of Martial Arts, but his fighting style is also aided by his quick thinking and agility. More info on the old bat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phosphor Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 I haven't had occasion to watch the trailer yet, but Bale I think is fine for the physique of Batman. Deganawida hit the prime detail when he said Bale has intensity, and in acting that counts for a whole lot more than a comic-book-proper physique. With the right intensity, the actor can be pretty much anything. And Bale isn't scrawny. Look at him in American Psycho, he's quite muscled. Besides, film can achieve any illusion. Ultimately though, I'd rather have a good actor who doesn't look 100% the part than someone who looks the part but can't act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phosphor Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Just watched the trailer, and I'm very impressed. It looks like this film is completely tackling the psychology of the character, using that mental state as the driving force and catalyst of Wayne/Batman, rather than some heroic crime-fighting perspective to facilitate lots of big action. It's Batman from the inside, from the character's mind. Perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 In that kind of fighting, I think speed matters more than any size difference. irrelevant for a couple reasons: 1) gromnir clearly stated "all things being equal" which means big guy is just as quick as small guy... 2) deganawida already pointed out batman's vitals. 6'2", 210 lbs. and lean is big. taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 what i hope they DON'T do is make the costume like the previous movies... totally ridiculous. stiff is an understatement. anybody in one of those outfits would be swimming with the fishes in only a few moments with even one competent opponent. no matter how fast you are, when you have to turn your whole body to get any kind of peripheral vision, you're in deep. literally. glug, glug. of course, maybe they never get to that point? taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkan Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 In that kind of fighting, I think speed matters more than any size difference. irrelevant for a couple reasons: 1) gromnir clearly stated "all things being equal" which means big guy is just as quick as small guy... 2) deganawida already pointed out batman's vitals. 6'2", 210 lbs. and lean is big. taks Not necessarily...Those are about my numbers and I wouldn't really call myself lean... "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials "I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phosphor Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 what i hope they DON'T do is make the costume like the previous movies... totally ridiculous. stiff is an understatement. anybody in one of those outfits would be swimming with the fishes in only a few moments with even one competent opponent. no matter how fast you are, when you have to turn your whole body to get any kind of peripheral vision, you're in deep. literally. glug, glug. of course, maybe they never get to that point? taks Costuming super-heroes in movies is always hard. I don't know what can be done with the Batman costume to make it look good, but not as rubber-rigid as it was in the previous films. I like how the X-Men films handled the costumes, that worked well. But it was also quite a departure from the comic book version, and I don't think Batman has that kind of freedom for costume innovation. The shots of the costume I've seen from Batman Begins seem to have a lot in common with the outfit from the previous films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 i didn't say you were lean. i said batman is lean... 6'2", 210 lbs. AND lean. he is described as such. lean just means low body fat, arkan. what you get from heavy exercise and weight lifting. taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Kitty Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 what i hope they DON'T do is make the costume like the previous movies... totally ridiculous. stiff is an understatement. anybody in one of those outfits would be swimming with the fishes in only a few moments with even one competent opponent. no matter how fast you are, when you have to turn your whole body to get any kind of peripheral vision, you're in deep. literally. glug, glug. of course, maybe they never get to that point? taks http://batman-on-film.com/images.html Click on the "Two excellent, combined pics of Bale as The Batman" link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Costuming super-heroes in movies is always hard. I don't know what can be done with the Batman costume to make it look good, but not as rubber-rigid as it was in the previous films. ... The shots of the costume I've seen from Batman Begins seem to have a lot in common with the outfit from the previous films. some of it was done to make twerpy michael keaton look bigger, i realize. that's how he got those muscles but, i think they can make some artistic license on a flexible suit that's "made of kevlar" so it doesn't have to be so thick. a little padding to add muscle and we have a bit more realism. bummer about the last bit. oh, how tall is matt damon? he's gotten pretty bulky for sure. maybe he'd be a good future fit? taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Kitty Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Matt Damon is 5' 10" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 too short... oh well. bandwidth exceeded on the pics. dang. a couple of the others looked OK so i'm going to reserve judgement. after reading the description, btw, it is supposed to be kevlar. taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Kitty Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 bandwidth exceeded on the pics. dang. a couple of the others looked OK so i'm going to reserve judgement. after reading the description, btw, it is supposed to be kevlar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 thanks. hmmm... still looks stiff. of course, the primary problem with the previous incarnations was the head/neck immobility. can't really tell from a still how well that plays out, though the way the material is wrinkled around the collar area implies it might be looser. i guess we'll see. taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diogo Ribeiro Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 I still think a pair of shorts, black leather booths, a black opera mask, and a bat medallion would be a viable Batman costume for the movies. But that suit does look more flexible. Could the previous actors even bend their legs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deganawida Posted July 29, 2004 Author Share Posted July 29, 2004 If so, I'd definitely have to say that though he may be portrayed as a big guy in the comics, from what I've seen, in martial arts, small guys are often times more than a match for thier bigger counterparts. Masaaki Hatsumi, grandmaster of the Togakure Ryu, originally got into ninpo because he was teaching American soldiers in post-war Japan and was being surpassed by his bigger, stronger American students. He was shocked at how quickly they picked up styles that he had spent most of his life studying, and given the extra strength and reach they were more than a match for him. So, he sought out a style that gave him the advantage again, and the rest is history... Anyway, one should remember that speed is a function of strength. The type of muscle one develops can affect speed (bulky vs. lean), but generally speaking stronger people are faster. I'm 6'2", and weigh 215, and I'm faster than 90% of the smaller guys and gals I've gone up against. It still surprises me, 'cause even though I know that speed is attributable to strength, I still have that "big guys are slow" mentality in my head whenever I spar or fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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