alanschu Posted July 3, 2004 Posted July 3, 2004 Guys, bastila isn't coming back. Why obsess about it? Becouse we love this character and want to interact with her again. Pretty simple. You continuously put your own opinion as that of the entire community. You love Bastila (as well as some others). I did not care much for the Bastila character for the majority part of the game. The only time she was interesting is when you meet her on the temple top....aside from that she seemed rather boring and not deep at all. I do not want to see her because I want to meet new characters that are much deeper and more interesting as a result. If any of you have played Planescape: Torment, you would know that MCA is capable of making much more fascinating characters, that you are always engaging in conversations again and again just to see if they have anything new to say. Bastila was the deepest character in the game Which says a lot for the characters in KOTOR, since she isn't very deep. In any case I found Jolee to much more fascinating than Bastilla. I always found myself waiting for him to say something. His stories were interesting....Bastila's were not nearly as so. I preferred the internal conflict of Carth over Bastila's cliched character. Although I did like most of the character sidequests, since they generally created internal conflicts within the characters. Although I would like some verification of these sidequests if someone has a moment: Bastila and her mom Carth and his son (never done this one) Mission and her brother Zaalbar and his home planet Juhani and a murderer of her race Canderous and some goons or something (did this one once a long time ago). Jolee and Sunry (??? not sure if this is actually his side quest or if there is something more...seems to quick). HK-47 and his repairs T3 and.......ok fine nothing here...but since he was virtually untapped I don't mind his addition to KOTOR 2....they can make something more out of him.
Nur Ab Sal Posted July 3, 2004 Posted July 3, 2004 Naive savages? This was already explained: such is the image in western popular culture. Isn't? But I admit that my post has bad construction: it looks if this term was my own, and it isn't. I intended to refer to the western stereotype, yet it looks like I consider Russians as savages. Anyway: I was always pissed off by the silly stereotypes in which inhabitants of the East are shown in games, films, novels and so Juhani reminded mi such stereotype greatly. Paniatna? HERMOCRATES: Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned. SOCRATES: This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale.
Markus Posted July 3, 2004 Posted July 3, 2004 Guys, bastila isn't coming back. Why obsess about it? Becouse we love this character and want to interact with her again. Pretty simple. You continuously put your own opinion as that of the entire community. You love Bastila (as well as some others). I did not care much for the Bastila character for the majority part of the game. The only time she was interesting is when you meet her on the temple top....aside from that she seemed rather boring and not deep at all. I do not want to see her because I want to meet new characters that are much deeper and more interesting as a result. If any of you have played Planescape: Torment, you would know that MCA is capable of making much more fascinating characters, that you are always engaging in conversations again and again just to see if they have anything new to say. Bastila was the deepest character in the game Which says a lot for the characters in KOTOR, since she isn't very deep. In any case I found Jolee to much more fascinating than Bastilla. I always found myself waiting for him to say something. His stories were interesting....Bastila's were not nearly as so. I preferred the internal conflict of Carth over Bastila's cliched character. Although I did like most of the character sidequests, since they generally created internal conflicts within the characters. Although I would like some verification of these sidequests if someone has a moment: Bastila and her mom Carth and his son (never done this one) Mission and her brother Zaalbar and his home planet Juhani and a murderer of her race Canderous and some goons or something (did this one once a long time ago). Jolee and Sunry (??? not sure if this is actually his side quest or if there is something more...seems to quick). HK-47 and his repairs T3 and.......ok fine nothing here...but since he was virtually untapped I don't mind his addition to KOTOR 2....they can make something more out of him. all those sidequests seem to be correct and the trial of sunry is a sidequest
ShinIchiro Posted July 3, 2004 Posted July 3, 2004 Isn't Zaalbar's sidequest more of a main quest? It goes hand-in-hand with the star map. You either kill his father and get the sword or bring the blade to his father and help him overthrow the brother and get the sword.
alanschu Posted July 3, 2004 Posted July 3, 2004 Naive savages? This was already explained: such is the image in western popular culture. Isn't? I don't think so. I live in Edmonton, Canada, and I don't know anyone that thinks of Eastern Europeans as savages.
SilverSun Posted July 3, 2004 Posted July 3, 2004 Guys, bastila isn't coming back. Why obsess about it? Hasn't really been said if she is or is not. Little hard for either side of the debate to state something like that as a 100% fact.
SilverSun Posted July 3, 2004 Posted July 3, 2004 *LOL* If she comes back great. If she doesn't oh well. I think there's a good chance she will in some way be back. But I'm not going to worry about it if she doesn't either.
Whitemithrandir Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 I agree with AlanSchu completely. Bastila was by no means a deep character. In fact, her character has been summarized over and over again in both literature and media, the epitome of a heroine (Joseph Campbell's descent into darkness, path to light, redemption) if you played the light side or the epitome of a villain (Joseph Campbell's descent into darkness, alure, oblivion) if you played the dark side. Her character is so cliche that it fits lock and key to the most banal of legendary and epic tale structures. (Let's face it, we've had enough of Campbellian characters in our English classes like Heart of Darkness, Illiad, Oedipus, Fountainhead, 1984 and 5000 other distopian novels, anything by shakespeare, stupid poems by Milton and Tennyson... Please give me something original during my leisure time...) She just happened to have a romance with your character and was female. Get over it. (Give me Fall From Grace or Annah anytime.) Word economics To express my vast wisdom I speak in haiku's.
Bokishi Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 Literature? All I meant was that she was a deep character in terms of how deep videogame characters can become. In fact, its proof right there that she is deep, when all of a sudden you have to compare her to characters created by Shakespeare. She has far more depth than other game characters such as Duke Nukem or Lara Croft, who's story is the usual "kill everyone just because" crap. Current 3DMark
alanschu Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 Literature? All I meant was that she was a deep character in terms of how deep videogame characters can become. In fact, its proof right there that she is deep, when all of a sudden you have to compare her to characters created by Shakespeare. She has far more depth than other game characters such as Duke Nukem or Lara Croft, who's story is the usual "kill everyone just because" crap. Comparing Bastila to such characters that are designed to be over the top like Duke Nukem is rather silly. I'd rather compare her to Morte or any character from Planescape: Torment. Furthermore, stating that someone has simliarities to the characters that she is similar to in literature does not make her deep. All it means is that the idea behind her is quite established (although to be fair, looking at most literature you'll find oodles of similiarities between characters). We don't "have" to compare her to Shakespeare characters......just that the idea behind her is cliche.
alanschu Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 For a game character, she was deep. I wouldn't consider her to be "deep" for a game character, when she isn't even the deepest character in the game. Mind you a lot of people consider a five minute interaction with Yuthura Ban to be "deep." I loved the ability to turn Yuthura to the lightside and all that...but to call her a deep character is silly IMO because we just did not interact with her enough.
'JN Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 I agree with AlanSchu completely. Bastila was by no means a deep character. In fact, her character has been summarized over and over again in both literature and media, the epitome of a heroine (Joseph Campbell's descent into darkness, path to light, redemption) if you played the light side or the epitome of a villain (Joseph Campbell's descent into darkness, alure, oblivion) if you played the dark side. Her character is so cliche that it fits lock and key to the most banal of legendary and epic tale structures. (Let's face it, we've had enough of Campbellian characters in our English classes like Heart of Darkness, Illiad, Oedipus, Fountainhead, 1984 and 5000 other distopian novels, anything by shakespeare, stupid poems by Milton and Tennyson... Please give me something original during my leisure time...) She just happened to have a romance with your character and was female. Get over it. (Give me Fall From Grace or Annah anytime.) So what? The story itself is cliche. Evil empire seeking domination slaughters the innocent and cannot be stopped, one person must determine the fate of the galaxy and uncover his true identity, blah blah blah...it's never been about who else has done it, it's about who can do it WELL.
alanschu Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 I actually agree with what you said......I didn't mean to say that Bastila wasn't deep because she was cliche....just that she was not deep.
Bokishi Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 Bastila was deep because she was an intrgeral part of the story. Jolee in comparison, was just filler material. Current 3DMark
SilverSun Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 Bastila was deep because she was an intrgeral part of the story. Jolee in comparison, was just filler material. Being important to the story is not the same thing as being deep. You HAVE to use T3 to open the doors to the Sith base on Taris,if you don't the story does not continue. There's no way around it,so in T3 is important to the story for it to continue. Is T3 a deep character? Don't misunderstand that wasn't a knock to Bas. Jolee had a lot of depth to his character and his story just because he wasn't a "main" character doesn't mean his chracter didn't have depth.
Fighter Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 I thought Bastila was a deep character if you can read between the lines. Ofcourse not everyone sees it that way. KOTOR has won many awards and is the best game of the year, largely because of the characters and story which evolves around them. Besides the author who wrote Jolee, Bastila, HK-47 and if I am not mistaken Yuthura Ban said it himself that Bastila is easily his deepest character. Maybe you just look at it from comletely different angle. Anyway your opinion is your own.
Fighter Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 PS. He also said I believe Jolee is his favorite, but Bastila is the deepest in his view. They all have depth to them (exept select few), everybody just tends to see the things that they like or dislike.
SilverSun Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 I've got nothing against Bas,she had her moments when I wanted to slap her but everyone had moments like that. They had personality to them for better or worse. None of them were perfect,which part of what I liked about how they were done.
Fighter Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 Exactly. What's good about them is that they seem real with their flaws.
Bokishi Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 Bastila is deep because she reflects the whole theme of the game's Light vs Dark story, which I believe was: Both the light and dark have their extremes, but the truth is somewhere in the middle. Yes, she blindly tells you to follow the councel's philosophy over and over again, but all she is doing is repeating what she has been told all her life. When you dig deeper into her character you find that she has trouble accepting those rules hereslf. When Bastila fell, it wasn't because she was tortured, but it was her own resentment of the Jedi's laws that did her in. Just bacause your interaction with her was brief, it does not by any means make her shallow. As for Jolee, I take that back, he wasn't filler material, but provided more insight into the game's theme. Current 3DMark
Meshugger Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 Exactly. What's good about them is that they seem real with their flaws. Yep. For example, when Canderous got second thoughts about his life after killing Jagi. The character may be a stereotype, but still a believable one. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
SilverSun Posted July 4, 2004 Posted July 4, 2004 I've been able to get that reaction out of Can once or twice,usually he just tells me he needs more time.
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