Can I play a Goth chick

[Judge Hades]

Besides you can't play a goth. This is Knights of the Old Republic not Angsty Teens of the Old Republic. The focus of the game is Jedis, Force, and the Sith and character creation and dialogue is limited as such. Sorry, not goths allowed.

[nightcleaver]

That's it? 'I'm right and you are wrong'? Is that where I don't know what I'm talking about? Please just do us all a favour and become a hermit. You know, live alone and all that. Oh wait, you probably already do, sorry.

 

I will get worked up about it. I'll defend my views at any given time, if it matters or not. That's what a radical does, remember?

 

Besides, that's not the freaking definition, that's the word history. Please get your facts straight. 

what? you look that up in your 'official goth handbook'?

 

i really like to flame, and edit posts, but im not. i wish you would try to be somewhat mature and drop it.

 

you see, this is what happens when you are raised from a bad home, and are told that you are always right and how your so wonderful.

 

anyway, a 'radical'? this is a forum you retard! nobody is shocked or uphauled that a 10 year old boy is posting lines from a dictionary! so, at least try to act mature young man

Ahh. Perhaps I should point out that all your arguments are rather lame and non-sensical, and certainly not indicative of intelligence. (Do you know that word, 'indicative'?)

[Mr. Teatime]

Right, well my experience with goths are people who ponce about in dumb clothes desperate for attention. If there are people who label themselves 'goth' because of their views and beliefs, in the same way people label themselves 'christian' because of their beliefs and views, that's fine. If you dress up like a f*ckwit that's a blatant scream for attention because you don't have any personality traits that distinguish you from the norm that you claim to be so different from, prepare to be labelled as f*ckwit. You can believe whatever you want as far as I'm concerned. Like someone else said, wearing black clothing does not make you a goth. But - correct me if I'm wrong - you can't be a goth UNLESS you wear dumb 'im a loser look at me kick me please please' clothing at some point, right? Or are there goths who always wear completely average, blend-with-the-crowd clothing when they go into a public place?

And, I will bet you 99% of people who call themselves 'goth' have never read any of the fiction they claim their image from, such as some Jane Austen novels, etc. E.A. Poe excluded.

 

I would like to repeat the universal fact: goths suck. As do hippies.

[Judge Hades]

I read quite a bit of Edgar Allen Poe, but very little Jane Austen. I am more of a Bronte reader myself.

[Drakron]

Oh yes, my favorit book is "Gordon Pym"

[nightcleaver]

I wouldn't agree on the hippies, though I'm not one myself.

 

Would it be a good guess that you're pretty conservative? (Ha!)

[Raven]

Right, well my experience with goths are people who ponce about in dumb clothes desperate for attention. If there are people who label themselves 'goth' because of their views and beliefs, in the same way people label themselves 'christian' because of their beliefs and views, that's fine. If you dress up like a f*ckwit that's a blatant scream for attention because you don't have any personality traits that distinguish you from the norm that you claim to be so different from, prepare to be labelled as f*ckwit. You can believe whatever you want as far as I'm concerned. Like someone else said, wearing black clothing does not make you a goth. But - correct me if I'm wrong - you can't be a goth UNLESS you wear dumb 'im a loser look at me kick me please please' clothing at some point, right? Or are there goths who always wear completely average, blend-with-the-crowd clothing when they go into a public place?

And, I will bet you 99% of people who call themselves 'goth' have never read any of the fiction they claim their image from, such as some Jane Austin novels, etc. E.A. Poe excluded.

 

I would like to repeat the universal fact: goths suck. As do hippies.

thank you!

[Jurgenaut]

For all you know, goths don't dress like they do to get attention but instead to show others that it's okay to be different.

 

The normal people who are wrapped up in time pressure, the everlasting quest for monetary means, watching the favourite shows on TV etc. People who are slaves to the normal way of life, the life of the consumer, the life of statistic number 32145765. When they die, they'll be just another statistic.

 

Showing such people that there are other ways to live is a good thing, although the whole goth suits thingy is too mainstreamed right now. You become a goth, you must have your own "Goth Outfit ". As it has become, goth is just another grouping, and as such, its followers follow out of group mentality (which normal people do as well, they just don't know it). Actual free will has very little to do with it.

[CoM_Solaufein]

When you play darkside you already look "goth". You have that pale undead look and those dark colored clothes that the Sith wear. :ph34r:

[Opus131]

The normal people who are wrapped up in time pressure, the everlasting quest for monetary means, watching the favourite shows on TV etc. People who are slaves to the normal way of life, the life of the consumer, the life of statistic number 32145765. When they die, they'll be just another statistic.

 

Goth on the other end grow money on a tree, so that they won't have to find a job and bend down to the system in order to go to the mall and shop for those expensive clothing at Hot Topic.

 

Hey, i'd love to be a Goth, but my parents kicked me out of the house a long time ago...

 

As it has become, goth is just another grouping, and as such, its followers follow out of group mentality (which normal people do as well, they just don't know it).

 

Goth have always been 'just another grouping'.

 

You don't make a difference by wearing some goofy clothing inspired by cheap horror pulp fiction, you define yourself by your actions.

 

Wearing dark clothing it's not a form of expression, it's just a shallow cry from attention.

 

You want to demonstrate self expression ?!? SHOW ME something throught you actions, punk...

[Jurgenaut]

The normal people who are wrapped up in time pressure, the everlasting quest for monetary means, watching the favourite shows on TV etc. People who are slaves to the normal way of life, the life of the consumer, the life of statistic number 32145765. When they die, they'll be just another statistic.

 

Goth on the other end grow money on a tree, so that they won't have to find a job and bend down to the system in order to go to the mall and shop for those expensive clothing at Hot Topic.

 

Hey, i'd love to be a Goth, but my parents kicked me out of the house a long time ago...

 

As it has become, goth is just another grouping, and as such, its followers follow out of group mentality (which normal people do as well, they just don't know it).

 

Goth have always been 'just another grouping'.

 

You don't make a difference by wearing some goofy clothing inspired by cheap horror pulp fiction, you define yourself by your actions.

 

Wearing dark clothing it's not a form of expression, it's just a shallow cry from attention.

 

You want to demonstrate self expression ?!? SHOW ME something throught you actions, punk...

What I meant is that you do not need to get the jobs that will maximize your income. Most people do, just so they can pay the new cool cellular phone, plasmaTV set, a new car, the fattest new computer, all the new DVDs etc. And then they complain that "I don't have time" to sit down and read a book or go out camping or anything, since they're going to use their new cool stuff. Most people want to be able to get the latest stuff in order to "go with the flow", to fit in with the rest of his/her friends who has the latest. The same goes for fashion trends. I'm quite comfortable in last years clothing, thank you. Group mentality makes you spend money on crap you do not need.

There is a lot of truth in the saying "The things you own end up owning you".

 

As for expression through actions, I very much agree. Willingly making yourself despised by a majority of the people marks a strong action in my book.

Problem is motive, purpose. What is your _reason_ for doing this? If you want to look cool and hang with yer goth friends, the action isn't strong, it is a weak-willed action induced by group mentality.

On the other hand, if you want to be the thorn in peoples eye, to show them that "I'm comfortable with looking like this and I'm still very capable of intellectual conversations", maybe that will open people up, make them question their bias(es?). If that motive is your own, out of your free will, then it is a strong action.

[Drakron]

For all you know, goths don't dress like they do to get attention but instead to show others that it's okay to be different.

 

Wrong anwer, thank you for playing.

 

The normal people who are wrapped up in time pressure, the everlasting quest for monetary means, watching the favourite shows on TV etc. People who are slaves to the normal way of life, the life of the consumer, the life of statistic number 32145765. When they die, they'll be just another statistic.

 

This is, of course, total BS.

 

"Normal" people are individuals with their own goals, true that as sociaty is right now there is not much of a choice but its something Goths also have to do, when we die we became a statistic unless we did something that goes down in history.

 

Showing such people that there are other ways to live is a good thing, although the whole goth suits thingy is too mainstreamed right now. You become a goth, you must have your own "Goth Outfit

[Jurgenaut]

For all you know, goths don't dress like they do to get attention but instead to show others that it's okay to be different.

 

Wrong anwer, thank you for playing.

I'm amazed at your debating skills here. Really, I am.

 

The "For all you know" bit was a pointer to the people here thinking "OMFG A PALE DARK CLAD GUY, WHAT A MORON". I'm talking bias here. Have you actually thought about what would drive someone to goth? Yeah, most are going with the flow, I am aware of that. But who is the one at fault here? If they want to look that way, that's fine by me. I dont care either way. But some of you people are directly hostile to others because of their looks. That sounds like a great idea, back in early 20th century.

 

I realize that you probably don't understand where I'm getting with the normal/different way of life, and goth isn't my choice of 'defendee' either. I'd need to write a book to explain it.

 

Whatever.

[Drakron]

And I am amazed you defending a complete wrong idea.

 

Goths dress the way they do just like punks dress the way they do, its their way of dressing and not some kind of "afirmative action for diferent lifestyles".

 

You keep talking about "the normal way of life" .... guess what?

 

The 1970's hippies were wearing a suit in 1980's, goths will change their clothing for more "normal" when they go out in public and dress in goth clothing when they go in private with other goths.

[Raven]

ok, heres my view, yet again....

 

'goths' just want attention. they usually come from a bad home, or they want to blend in with somebody from a bad home. they stay inside all day leaving the paleness, and they wear all black because it makes their skin appear to be more pale (no, really it does).

 

they usually dont be successful in life, most likely drop out, end up working at a gas station or Big Boy. yeah, Big Boy is a big goth cult, remember?

 

and if theyre not working they end up getting that welfare check in the mail because they wanted attention as a child, so they always acted depressed, dressed like a freak, and didnt do their school/home work.

 

hmm, time for me to get flamed

[Indalecio]

What I meant is that you do not need to get the jobs that will maximize your income. Most people do, just so they can pay the new cool cellular phone, plasmaTV set, a new car, the fattest new computer, all the new DVDs etc. And then they complain that "I don't have time" to sit down and read a book or go out camping or anything, since they're going to use their new cool stuff. Most people want to be able to get the latest stuff in order to "go with the flow", to fit in with the rest of his/her friends who has the latest. The same goes for fashion trends. I'm quite comfortable in last years clothing, thank you. Group mentality makes you spend money on crap you do not need.

There is a lot of truth in the saying "The things you own end up owning you".

I really didn't want to get into this debate, but 'meh'. Anyway, not being materialistic is all very well and good, commendable even, but what does being pale and wearing dark clothes have anything to do with it? I am not particularly materialistic. I have no desire to be rich, and I don't consider myself 'goth'. I think the problem is that they're a lot of people out there who think they're goth simply because they're pale and wear dark clothes. You think goth is not being materialistic.

 

What we have is a contradiction in terms.

 

As for expression through actions, I very much agree. Willingly making yourself despised by a majority of the people marks a strong action in my book.

Problem is motive, purpose. What is your _reason_ for doing this? If you want to look cool and hang with yer goth friends, the action isn't strong, it is a weak-willed action induced by group mentality.

On the other hand, if you want to be the thorn in peoples eye, to show them that "I'm comfortable with looking like this and I'm still very capable of intellectual conversations", maybe that will open people up, make them question their bias(es?). If that motive is your own, out of your free will, then it is a strong action.

 

Unfortunately, from what I see, these actions aren't having the desired results. People don't take goths seriously, because people judge by appearances. Its sad, but its also human nature. If you want to be taken more seriously, don't be materialistic, but at the same time, dress modestly but neatly.

 

My $0.02

[Jurgenaut]

I really didn't want to get into this debate, but 'meh'. Anyway, not being materialistic is all very well and good, commendable even, but what does being pale and wearing dark clothes have anything to do with it? I am not particularly materialistic. I have no desire to be rich, and I don't consider myself 'goth'. I think the problem is that they're a lot of people out there who think they're goth simply because they're pale and wear dark clothes. You think goth is not being materialistic.

 

What we have is a contradiction in terms.

 

Unfortunately, from what I see, these actions aren't having the desired results. People don't take goths seriously, because people judge by appearances. Its sad, but its also human nature. If you want to be taken more seriously, don't be materialistic, but at the same time, dress modestly but neatly.

 

My $0.02

Yeah, I kinda realized there weren't any obvious connections bar being different. I'm writing a sf story about a guy who rages against materialism and society in a near future, and I'm so into his character right now. I guess the being different overlapped.

 

About appearance. If you look like everyone else, how will you stick in people's minds? If I was goth, the whole point of it would be to make people realize that things are more than they appear. I'm not saying that you must go goth to stand out though. Just like.. wear what you feel comfortable in (and I doubt chains, spikes and straight-jackets are comfy), regardless how it looks.

 

I think it was Nietzsche who said that an action is neither good nor bad, it is the motive for doing the action that can be classified as good/bad (according to the societys morale). In the same way, the reason for turning goth decides whether you're a sucker for attention or you feel an actual need for black leather and makeup (sexual tensions?). With that in mind, I think it is a bad idea to label a goth idiot without knowing the reason for it.

 

Take guys who like rap music. Why do they insist on wearing baggypants, 10 pounds of gold and a silly cap?

I see a direct parallell towards Synth music (electric 80's and it's more recent incarnations) since all synth fans (here at least) dress just like goths. Black clothes, leather, wierd hair styles. And that's just because they like the music and want to identify with others who like the very same sounds. Heck, I dress in black when I hang at synth parties, but no way I'd label myself goth.

[Child of Flame]

I really didn't want to get into this debate, but 'meh'.  Anyway, not being materialistic is all very well and good, commendable even, but what does being pale and wearing dark clothes have anything to do with it?  I am not particularly materialistic.  I have no desire to be rich, and I don't consider myself 'goth'.  I think the problem is that they're a lot of people out there who think they're goth simply because they're pale and wear dark clothes.  You think goth is not being materialistic. 

 

What we have is a contradiction in terms. 

 

Unfortunately, from what I see, these actions aren't having the desired results.  People don't take goths seriously, because people judge by appearances.  Its sad, but its also human nature.  If you want to be taken more seriously, don't be materialistic, but at the same time, dress modestly but neatly. 

 

My $0.02

Yeah, I kinda realized there weren't any obvious connections bar being different. I'm writing a sf story about a guy who rages against materialism and society in a near future, and I'm so into his character right now. I guess the being different overlapped.

 

About appearance. If you look like everyone else, how will you stick in people's minds? If I was goth, the whole point of it would be to make people realize that things are more than they appear. I'm not saying that you must go goth to stand out though. Just like.. wear what you feel comfortable in (and I doubt chains, spikes and straight-jackets are comfy), regardless how it looks.

 

I think it was Nietzsche who said that an action is neither good nor bad, it is the motive for doing the action that can be classified as good/bad (according to the societys morale). In the same way, the reason for turning goth decides whether you're a sucker for attention or you feel an actual need for black leather and makeup (sexual tensions?). With that in mind, I think it is a bad idea to label a goth idiot without knowing the reason for it.

 

Take guys who like rap music. Why do they insist on wearing baggypants, 10 pounds of gold and a silly cap?

I see a direct parallell towards Synth music (electric 80's and it's more recent incarnations) since all synth fans (here at least) dress just like goths. Black clothes, leather, wierd hair styles. And that's just because they like the music and want to identify with others who like the very same sounds. Heck, I dress in black when I hang at synth parties, but no way I'd label myself goth.

I find it would be more effective to take on my best friend from highschool's approach if you really want to fight materialism. Guy wore some of the rattiest, weirdest clothes, many from the thriftstore, even though his parents lived in Granite Bay, and could easily afford 'designer' brands. He was also IMO a true genius. Last I knew he was teaching himself physics, and always was reading some math book or other. Also, in case anyone takes ratty clothes as identifying with the punk movement, this was not the case, as they simply were not the right type of 'ratty' clothes. Most individual person I ever knew, and that's saying something as I'm rather a misfit myself. B)

[OLD SKOOL WHEELMAN]

ok, heres my view, yet again....

 

'goths' just want attention. they usually come from a bad home, or they want to blend in with somebody from a bad home. they stay inside all day leaving the paleness, and they wear all black because it makes their skin appear to be more pale (no, really it does).

 

they usually dont be successful in life, most likely drop out, end up working at a gas station or Big Boy. yeah, Big Boy is a big goth cult, remember?

 

and if theyre not working they end up getting that welfare check in the mail because they wanted attention as a child, so they always acted depressed, dressed like a freak, and didnt do their school/home work.

 

hmm, time for me to get flamed

Raven, how does it feel to be wrong in your point of view? Because you're not...

 

Waits to get flamed along with Raven...

[Child of Flame]

ok, heres my view, yet again....

 

'goths' just want attention. they usually come from a bad home, or they want to blend in with somebody from a bad home. they stay inside all day leaving the paleness, and they wear all black because it makes their skin appear to be more pale (no, really it does).

 

they usually dont be successful in life, most likely drop out, end up working at a gas station or Big Boy. yeah, Big Boy is a big goth cult, remember?

 

and if theyre not working they end up getting that welfare check in the mail because they wanted attention as a child, so they always acted depressed, dressed like a freak, and didnt do their school/home work.

 

hmm, time for me to get flamed

Raven, how does it feel to be wrong in your point of view? Because you're not...

 

Waits to get flamed along with Raven...

Nah, for once I just have to agree with Revan.....once upon a time it might have been a jab at taking down social conformity, but now it's just the new trend.

[Raven]

ok, heres my view, yet again....

 

'goths' just want attention. they usually come from a bad home, or they want to blend in with somebody from a bad home. they stay inside all day leaving the paleness, and they wear all black because it makes their skin appear to be more pale (no, really it does).

 

they usually dont be successful in life, most likely drop out, end up working at a gas station or Big Boy. yeah, Big Boy is a big goth cult, remember?

 

and if theyre not working they end up getting that welfare check in the mail because they wanted attention as a child, so they always acted depressed, dressed like a freak, and didnt do their school/home work.

 

hmm, time for me to get flamed

Raven, how does it feel to be wrong in your point of view? Because you're not...

 

Waits to get flamed along with Raven...

Nah, for once I just have to agree with Revan.....once upon a time it might have been a jab at taking down social conformity, but now it's just the new trend.

eru is agreeing with me. the laws of physics, time, and space have been altered.

[EnderAndrew]

Anyone who sits here and claims to know and understand the motivations of a group that they don't belong to is suffering from B.S. posturing.

 

My experiences around "goth" culture have shown my two things. Goth culture seems to attract a good number of idiots who believe that conforming to wearing black is the definition of non-conformity. Many of these people sit around and talk about how no one in the world cares or understands. Yet instead of being moved by this realization that other people feel the same way, they remain determined to sulk in self-centered agony.

 

At the same time, there is a small sub-culture within the sub-culture of people who just happen to like listening to Skinny Puppy, or Bauhaus. There are people who prefer the color black, or prefer Giger's artwork to Monet. There are people who enjoy being deviant for the sake of being deviant.

 

Most of these people strive to find other terms than goth these days, to seperate themselves from the seventeen-year-old drama queens, but even more so, they prefer to avoid classifying themselves as subscribing to some social fad. They just prefer to be themselves. Other people might mistakenly call them goth.

[OLD SKOOL WHEELMAN]

ok, heres my view, yet again....

 

'goths' just want attention. they usually come from a bad home, or they want to blend in with somebody from a bad home. they stay inside all day leaving the paleness, and they wear all black because it makes their skin appear to be more pale (no, really it does).

 

they usually dont be successful in life, most likely drop out, end up working at a gas station or Big Boy. yeah, Big Boy is a big goth cult, remember?

 

and if theyre not working they end up getting that welfare check in the mail because they wanted attention as a child, so they always acted depressed, dressed like a freak, and didnt do their school/home work.

 

hmm, time for me to get flamed

Raven, how does it feel to be wrong in your point of view? Because you're not...

 

Waits to get flamed along with Raven...

Nah, for once I just have to agree with Revan.....once upon a time it might have been a jab at taking down social conformity, but now it's just the new trend.

What does Darth Revan have to do with this? I on the other hand was agreeing with Raven...

[Raven]

ok, heres my view, yet again....

 

'goths' just want attention. they usually come from a bad home, or they want to blend in with somebody from a bad home. they stay inside all day leaving the paleness, and they wear all black because it makes their skin appear to be more pale (no, really it does).

 

they usually dont be successful in life, most likely drop out, end up working at a gas station or Big Boy. yeah, Big Boy is a big goth cult, remember?

 

and if theyre not working they end up getting that welfare check in the mail because they wanted attention as a child, so they always acted depressed, dressed like a freak, and didnt do their school/home work.

 

hmm, time for me to get flamed

Raven, how does it feel to be wrong in your point of view? Because you're not...

 

Waits to get flamed along with Raven...

Nah, for once I just have to agree with Revan.....once upon a time it might have been a jab at taking down social conformity, but now it's just the new trend.

What does Darth Revan have to do with this? I on the other hand was agreeing with Raven...

remember, im revan too. i couldnt believe malak told me!

[Child of Flame]

ok, heres my view, yet again....

 

'goths' just want attention. they usually come from a bad home, or they want to blend in with somebody from a bad home. they stay inside all day leaving the paleness, and they wear all black because it makes their skin appear to be more pale (no, really it does).

 

they usually dont be successful in life, most likely drop out, end up working at a gas station or Big Boy. yeah, Big Boy is a big goth cult, remember?

 

and if theyre not working they end up getting that welfare check in the mail because they wanted attention as a child, so they always acted depressed, dressed like a freak, and didnt do their school/home work.

 

hmm, time for me to get flamed

Raven, how does it feel to be wrong in your point of view? Because you're not...

 

Waits to get flamed along with Raven...

Nah, for once I just have to agree with Revan.....once upon a time it might have been a jab at taking down social conformity, but now it's just the new trend.

eru is agreeing with me. the laws of physics, time, and space have been altered.

Yeah, I know, 'tis mind blowing isn't it.

 

 

 

@Wiggster: Sadly though, due to the seventeen year old drama queens, the real non conformists get lumped in with the stereotypical bunch, as it seems most of them ARE the stereotypical bunch these days. Can't really be helped; which is exactly why I choose to be a non conformist by dressing, and acting how I feel, and telling the rest of the world to shove it. Fortunately, I'm enough of a nobody that it's not likely I'll ever get a subculture of groupies trying to act like me.

 

@Wheelman: Dammit! I meant RAVEN!!! RAVEN Gottdammit!!! Guess I been playing KotOR too much lately.