The All Things Political Topic

[BruceVC]

Voting is over, I have never seen such lines and participation in an election and its a sign of the  belief in people wanting to see political  change and have there voice heard 

 

I ended up voting at 8:40pm and I still waited 40 minutes. You can join  the line up to 9pm but not after that 

 

Whatever the outcome is this is entire election is an example of the belief that most South Africans have in the principle and foundation of Democracy which is about the right to vote in a free and fair election and for citizens to influence  leadership change through the ballot box 

 

This is something that doesnt exist in countries like Russia and it never existed in South Africa until 1994 and the right to vote freely  should never be taken for granted 

 

[majestic]

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/05/30/trump-guilty-crime-felony-what-happens-next.html
 

So sad, this injustice in this country and this witch hunt. 

Doing my best Beavis and Butthead laugh impression right now. He hehe he.

[Bartimaeus]

Trump has been convicted on all 34 felony charges of his hush money / election interference trial.

(e): Damn it, sniped by literally like one second. Oh, it looks like the Associated Press website died anyways. Don't know if because of the news or if just coincidence...

Edited May 30 by Bartimaeus

[Lexx]

Please send him to jail.

[Malcador]

Going to be fun watching right wing spaces tonight

[Bartimaeus]

Just now, Lexx said:

Please send him to jail.

From what I read, sentencing may take a few weeks, and it's not clear as of yet what kind of sentencing there may be given the extraordinary circumstances. This particular judge seems to rather explicitly hold Trump in contempt, but...again, extraordinary circumstances.

[Lexx]

Let's be real, he will be ordered to pay some little bits of money and then this thing is over.

[Bartimaeus]

10 minutes ago, Lexx said:

Let's be real, he will be ordered to pay some little bits of money and then this thing is over.

He'll never be indicted, he'll never sit for trial, he'll never be convicted, he'll never see the inside of a prison cell...

[Gfted1]

[Bartimaeus]

In all honesty, even though it IS 34 felonies, they're all the least serious type of felonies, and they're all for the same crime. Even though each charge carries a maximum of 4 years of prison, it's not completely unusual to avoid any prison time here. But sentencing (now announced as June 10th July 11th) is left up to the discretion of the judge and what they feel is appropriate given the general conduct of the defendant throughout the trial (as well as post-trial) as well as other considerations, such as whether it's a consistent pattern of criminal behavior. Really, all bets are off as to exactly what the sentencing will be.

Edited May 30 by Bartimaeus

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I guess felons are gonna get the right to vote in Florida.

[Bartimaeus]

11 minutes ago, PK htiw klaw eriF said:

I guess felons are gonna get the right to vote in Florida.

For state charges, Florida defers to the state where the convicted criminal felon has been criminally convicted as a convicted criminal felon...criminally, as to whether they're allowed to exercise their right to vote as a convicted criminal felon as a result of their criminal felon conviction. So in this particular case, Donald Trump the convicted criminal felon would be allowed to vote, as a convicted criminal felon, in Florida, because his criminal felon conviction occurred in New York, where criminally convicted felons are still allowed to vote with criminal felon convictions. Woof, sorry, that was a mouthful, but I couldn't think of any other possible way to word it.

Edited May 30 by Bartimaeus

[Hurlshort]

Would be cool if the Republican Party leadership wasn't completely inept and they decided to push him off the ballot. It seems weird because they would win the presidency with a different candidate, but I guess they are worried about losing their own seats. Crazy time. 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

53 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

For state charges, Florida defers to the state where the convicted criminal felon has been criminally convicted as a convicted criminal felon...criminally, as to whether they're allowed to exercise their right to vote as a convicted criminal felon as a result of their criminal felon conviction. So in this particular case, Donald Trump the convicted criminal felon would be allowed to vote, as a convicted criminal felon, in Florida, because his criminal felon conviction occurred in New York, where criminally convicted felons are still allowed to vote with criminal felon convictions. Woof, sorry, that was a mouthful, but I couldn't think of any other possible way to word it.

Well that's what I get for making a joke without knowing Florida law.

[Gorth]

45 minutes ago, Hurlshort said:

Would be cool if the Republican Party leadership wasn't completely inept and they decided to push him off the ballot. It seems weird because they would win the presidency with a different candidate, but I guess they are worried about losing their own seats. Crazy time. 

Isn't that what you get as a politician if you put all your eggs in one basket... and the basket turns out to be a basket case?

Personally, I see that as karma for being followers rather than a leaders, despite marketing yourself as society's leaders. 

Sometimes the path of least resistance is a dead end...

Edit: That last one actually sounded quite nice, have to remember that, if I think I need to sound profound some day

[Bartimaeus]

51 minutes ago, Hurlshort said:

Would be cool if the Republican Party leadership wasn't completely inept and they decided to push him off the ballot. It seems weird because they would win the presidency with a different candidate, but I guess they are worried about losing their own seats. Crazy time. 

The Trump party leadership unilaterally deciding to kick Trump off the ballot would lead to both a total collapse of the current party structure (i.e. themselves, the leadership) as well as electoral disaster, neither of which the Trump party, in its own self-preserving interest, wants any part of. I feel confident in saying that the old Republican guard is largely just hoping that they can outlast Trump one way or another without ever having "betrayed" him - that's why, over the years, you've even seen cracks in the wall here and there, such as after January 6th, where Republican party leaders did actually attempt to pivot away...before quickly realizing that no, even that still wasn't enough to turn their core voting base against him, and attempting to pull further away would only endanger themselves instead. Powerful cults of personality do not leave easy/feasible ways of getting out once they've taken hold, and they signed an unbreakable deal with the devil by embracing Trump that they're now reaping the rotten fruits from.

Edited May 31 by Bartimaeus

[uuuhhii]

 

enjoy the pleasant weather now while it last

will only get worse every year

[HoonDing]

Drump dindu nuffin

[BruceVC]

Im ecstatic with the final  South African voting  results

• my party the DA, Democratic alliance, maintained control of the Western Cape and gained in the National vote. We on 22.7%. We the anti-Russian,anti-BRICS, pro-West  party and the Western Cape  is the only province   that  passes  the  auditor-general  report  around municipalities and service delivery 
• the ANC for the first time in 30 years got less than 50% of the national vote and they on 41%
• and the best news is the racist, anti-white,  socialist   pro-Russian party the EFF lost national votes and they down to 9.3 %.

It doesnt matter about coalitions because no radical left\socialist party has the support to change the Constitution which is always my greatest concern, you need 66% to do this

The ANC will need a party with 9% to govern to get to 50% majority but its irrelevant  who they choose because they cant make any permanent and destructive Constitutional changes. So the ANC will predictably continue to govern but with no more  majority.  And Im very happy with that,  Im  not anti-ANC on  certain things.  Im  just anti-ANC  dominance because  it  has created a  culture  around political  impunity around dealing with corruption and ensuring governance and accountability 

But Im very happy with the final results, the ANC getting way less than 50% and the EFF becoming even more irrelevant and the DA increasing its support  

And before this  election some political  commentators  were  grandstanding and  " predicting " the DA would lose   support because we not " pro-Palestinian" and because of the so  called   flag burning incident. And neither of those allegations was  true or  accurate 

But most  South Africans voted on the expected  domestic issues   like the economy, crime and  failure  service delivery.  And 65% of the DA vote is people of colour  which is critical for  political  success  in a country where  white people  are  only 6.5%  of the total  population 

 

 

[Gorth]

Split off from old thread....

 

 

JuiceMedia's analysis of the state of Democracy around the world (warning, depressing news)

 

[HoonDing]

Is AWB no longer around in South Africa? Who's protecting the rights of Afrikaners?

[BruceVC]

16 hours ago, HoonDing said:

Is AWB no longer around in South Africa? Who's protecting the rights of Afrikaners?

No  we  havent had a active  right-wing movement   like the AWB for decades.They  still  exist but  you never hear  from  them  

Afrikaners  rights are  protected  the same   way as  all  minorities,   in the Constitution

But there is also a  more Afrikaans  party called  Freedom  Front Plus but they represent more  farmers  rights and they got  1.4% of total  votes

Most   Afrikaners would have voted for  the  DA 

 

 

 

[BruceVC]

17 hours ago, Gorth said:

Split off from old thread....

 

 

JuiceMedia's analysis of the state of Democracy around the world (warning, depressing news)

 

Classic and hilarious Juice Media and its  what they do well.  There videos always the same,  some  truth or accurate observations and then  humour and exaggeration 

I  love the US view "  we  prepared  to defend our Democracy  against terrorists ,  Commies and even aliens "    

Once point that is valid and I have raised  this concern is we tend to take the principles and foundation  of Democracy for granted and you can have this being undermined and eroded because of government policy in any country because  of  a change in policy from a more extreme  left  or  right wing government.  But it generally  requires  Constitutional  change  in all our  countries but its  still something that should concern all of us 

So just being able  to vote in a free and fair election is  something we should  appreciate  and  realize  it  needs to be protected  

So  when you hear  about Democratically elected governments in Africa  being overthrown by military coups this should  concern us all.  But many people  dont really care because they think  its about "  French Colonialism being ended "  

 

 

[Gorth]

I think a lot of “democratically” elected governments gets toppled by either military coups or uprisings because of rampant corruption… i.e. being “democratic regimes” in name only, not functionally. No easy fixes for deep rooted cultural problems

[BruceVC]

20 minutes ago, Gorth said:

I think a lot of “democratically” elected governments gets toppled by either military coups or uprisings because of rampant corruption… i.e. being “democratic regimes” in name only, not functionally. No easy fixes for deep rooted cultural problems

Im not sure  what examples  of military coups you referring to but if its  recent coups of  the 6-7 African  countries   the problems  in these  countries  is no reason to justify a military coup or believe corruption is going to end because the military is in  charge

These African  governments  were  elected  in free  and fair elections  as  far as they can in the context of new  Democracies  in Africa. They failed  to maintain security effectively against Jihadist groups and so did  the French military intervention  but the security situation hasnt  changed  since the military took power and in some of these  countries the military has been in power  for  years

 

We also have rampant  corruption and security problems in South Africa but that doesnt mean  the military should take  over  our Parliament

And predictably the military leadership in  Burkina Faso said " we will restore  Democratic  rule 1 July  2024  "  and Mali was  suppose to be February 2024

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5117d8kz16o

And guess what?  They have ignored this pledge and they staying power because these coups are about that

 

Its about taking power  in an undemocratic way  and  staying  in power  irrespective of  the future for the  country and its  citizens. When has  a military  coup  in Africa ever actually benefited the majority of   its  citizens?