BG3 - Butt kicking for goodness!

[kanisatha]

17 minutes ago, Wormerine said:

The summary of this analysis to me is: bear sex = awesome game (which is rather pathetic)

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, Wormerine said:

 

Pretty interesting, and I do enjoy listening to Irish accents to boot. Just my own anecdotal evidence here but I've seen tiktok addled zoomers who have never played a rpg before get real interested in the genre (both pnp and vidya) after BG3 dropped because of **** like Karlach dancing or His Majesty getting them in the door. I think BG3 is proving that these games can have some mass appeal if done well (and having really wild **** like the bear sex), so I'd hope that more AAA rpgs like it get a shot.

If you're listening Microsoft, give Josh Sawyer a quarter of what you lit on fire to make ****field and you will have your own BG3.

[Sarex]

15 minutes ago, PK htiw klaw eriF said:

Pretty interesting, and I do enjoy listening to Irish accents to boot. Just my own anecdotal evidence here but I've seen tiktok addled zoomers who have never played a rpg before get real interested in the genre (both pnp and vidya) after BG3 dropped because of **** like Karlach dancing or His Majesty getting them in the door. I think BG3 is proving that these games can have some mass appeal if done well (and having really wild **** like the bear sex), so I'd hope that more AAA rpgs like it get a shot.

If you're listening Microsoft, give Josh Sawyer a quarter of what you lit on fire to make ****field and you will have your own BG3.

Just as long as we still get the "hard core" stuff I think it's great BG3 saw success.

[HoonDing]

It's absolutely the greatest game of all time (of ALL TIME) because the media has decided it should be so.

[Wormerine]

4 hours ago, PK htiw klaw eriF said:

Pretty interesting, and I do enjoy listening to Irish accents to boot.

I thought I did too, but than I moved to Ireland (though Northern Ireland to be specific) . Here is a good one.

[kanisatha]

23 hours ago, PK htiw klaw eriF said:

I think BG3 is proving that these games can have some mass appeal if done well (and having really wild **** like the bear sex), so I'd hope that more AAA rpgs like it get a shot.

If you're listening Microsoft, give Josh Sawyer a quarter of what you lit on fire to make ****field and you will have your own BG3.

Don't do it, Microsoft. There's no "lesson" to be learned from the garbage that is BG3, and I don't want anything similar from Obsidian.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

On 11/4/2023 at 10:50 AM, Sarex said:

Just as long as we still get the "hard core" stuff I think it's great BG3 saw success.

I think that BG3's relative simplicity is built into it by the 5e ruleset. If there was a AAA Pathfinder (not Owlcat, because they said they can't balance a game where you can't jack up the numbers by 10+) or PoE 3 (because Sawyer loves his maths) then those would be a lot more complex by design.

Imo some of the hard-core aspects of BG3 were the least fun, like weight limits and food. You could play around them without issue but they just added tedium to the game. I want to focus on fighting enemies, not the UI.

21 hours ago, Wormerine said:

I thought I did too, but than I moved to Ireland (though Northern Ireland to be specific) . Here is a good one.

I love it.

[BruceVC]

On 11/4/2023 at 4:05 PM, kanisatha said:

The summary of this analysis to me is: bear sex = awesome game (which is rather pathetic)

I dont think that was  the message from the  video,  the bear sex scene  is an optional  3 minute Romance outcome which he mentions but that was  more    about the  marketing and  global  response it  created

This  video for  me summarized nicely  why BG3 was  a success   and  it includes  the following  

 

• Larian has an established  history of  making successful CRPG
• Early access  feedback was a  huge part of this game and how it was designed and changed
• CRPG  are popular and we  seeing a resurgence  of  interest
• Larian had the revenue and some  private sector   funding to  adhere   to  the  vision 
• Larian as  a  company has   the  right leadership and  management 

I  only  really disagreed  with one thing,   why does  he keep  referring to  Disco  Elysium  as  a   CRPG? Its  more   an adventure  game surly ?

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by BruceVC

[Hawke64]

3 hours ago, BruceVC said:

I  only  really disagreed  with one thing,   why does  he keep  referring to  Disco  Elysium  as  a   CRPG? Its  more   an adventure  game surly ?

The outcomes of the quests and the availability of the options depend on the MC's stats (and RNG, but may RNG checks in dialogues be optional) and there is a small party. There is 1 mandatory combat encounter, but a combat system is not an essential quality of CRPGs. On the other hand, the MC does have a very specific background and a certain scene at the end might come off as completely random, depending on the player. Then again, the same can be said about Planescape: Torment.

I don't think that you have played Disco Elysium?

Edited November 6, 2023 by Hawke64

[BruceVC]

43 minutes ago, Hawke64 said:

The outcomes of the quests and the availability of the options depend on the MC's stats (and RNG, but may RNG checks in dialogues be optional) and there is a small party. There is 1 mandatory combat encounter, but a combat system is not an essential quality of CRPGs. On the other hand, the MC does have a very specific background and a certain scene at the end might come off as completely random, depending on the player. Then again, the same can be said about Planescape: Torment.

I don't think that you have played Disco Elysium?

I played it but I got bored and didnt  finish it. I stopped playing when I go to part with people having a party in the tent 

[Hawke64]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

I played it but I got bored and didnt  finish it. I stopped playing when I go to part with people having a party in the tent 

I see. I finished Disco Elysium, but didn't particularly like it. Though, not sure what could have made it better - more complex or more tactile actions and static skill checks, maybe?

To stay on topic, Patch 4 has been released. https://steamcommunity.com/games/1086940/announcements/detail/3729602945703684316

Quote

HIGHLIGHTS

• You can now dismiss dead avatars to Withers' Wardrobe. Withers will now also explain how the wardrobe works.
• You can now customise hirelings' appearance when recruiting them.
• Colour-blind mode: We've added a setting to the Accessibility tab that will allow you to choose protanopia, deuteranopia, or tritanopia. This affects the colours used to distinguish factions and relations: map and minimap icons, portrait frames, and character outlines and circles.
• Added an option to use AMD's FSR Version 2.2 as your upscaler of choice, enabling improved visual quality.

Somehow odd that the full custom party is not available yet.

[kanisatha]

BG3 is seeing sales success as a AAA cRPG heavily because it is a D&D game, because D&D already has a very long-standing fanbase that is 15 million strong. A game franchise that does not have a D&D-like huge pre-existing fanbase (i.e. Pathfinder, PoE, etc.) will never sell enough to make a AAA game profitable. As an example, the only way Bioware could produce AAA-level sales for its Dragon Age franchise was to move its DA games away from being cRPGs.

The notion that cRPGs now have mainstream crossover appeal because of BG3 is utter nonsense. BG3 has mainstream crossover appeal because D&D now has mainstream crossover appeal. And on top of that you throw in a whole bunch of gratuitous interactive sex and nudity into the game and you've got yourself a ton of sales. But this "model" will never work for PoE.

[BruceVC]

27 minutes ago, kanisatha said:

BG3 is seeing sales success as a AAA cRPG heavily because it is a D&D game, because D&D already has a very long-standing fanbase that is 15 million strong. A game franchise that does not have a D&D-like huge pre-existing fanbase (i.e. Pathfinder, PoE, etc.) will never sell enough to make a AAA game profitable. As an example, the only way Bioware could produce AAA-level sales for its Dragon Age franchise was to move its DA games away from being cRPGs.

The notion that cRPGs now have mainstream crossover appeal because of BG3 is utter nonsense. BG3 has mainstream crossover appeal because D&D now has mainstream crossover appeal. And on top of that you throw in a whole bunch of gratuitous interactive sex and nudity into the game and you've got yourself a ton of sales. But this "model" will never work for PoE.

Yes but he also  specifically mentions the current  appeal of D&D  and increased interest  over the last 10 years, so he already gives that  as a  reason for  BG3  sales success  

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, Hawke64 said:

I see. I finished Disco Elysium, but didn't particularly like it. Though, not sure what could have made it better - more complex or more tactile actions and static skill checks, maybe?

In terms of gameplay I think that Disco Elysium is fine. It's a good move for a game this narrative focused to make the talking and all that the gameplay instead of slapping on some mediocre at best combat between chapters of text, like both of the Torment games, but the downside is that if you aren't hooked by the detective work or aren't very interested in the world you're going to check out.

1 hour ago, Hawke64 said:

To stay on topic, Patch 4 has been released. https://steamcommunity.com/games/1086940/announcements/detail/3729602945703684316

"You can now read the recipe for the Emperor's favourite soup."

Finally.

[ShadySands]

21 hours ago, PK htiw klaw eriF said:

maths

This hurt, right in the freedom.

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

5 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

This hurt, right in the freedom.

 

[kanisatha]

3 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Yes but he also  specifically mentions the current  appeal of D&D  and increased interest  over the last 10 years, so he already gives that  as a  reason for  BG3  sales success  

Sure, but my post was general and separate from and not tied to that video in any way.

[Hurlshort]

Disco Elysium is designed to be played with a strong drink in hand. You are doing it wrong if you played it any other way. 

It's like you guys aren't serious about RPG's here.  

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

15 minutes ago, Hurlshort said:

Disco Elysium is designed to be played with a strong drink in hand. You are doing it wrong if you played it any other way. 

It's like you guys aren't serious about RPG's here.  

You shouldn't need booze to get HARDCORE TO THE MEGA.

[Wormerine]

15 hours ago, BruceVC said:

I  only  really disagreed  with one thing,   why does  he keep  referring to  Disco  Elysium  as  a   CRPG? Its  more   an adventure  game surly?

I definitely consider it an RPG - you create a character, with stats and skills, and all interactions are character driven. Most importantly it revolves around roleplaying - who your memory wiped detective is is a central part of the game. It is light on systems, and doesn't have combat, but what makes RPG an RPG - it has it in spades.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Wormerine

[BruceVC]

5 hours ago, Wormerine said:

I definitely consider it an RPG - you create a character, with stats and skills, and all interactions are character driven. Most importantly it revolves around roleplaying - who your memory wiped detective is is a central part of the game. It is light on systems, and doesn't have combat, but what makes RPG an RPG - it has it in spades.

So  do you consider Quest for Glory an  RPG ,  its labelled  an adventure   game  on Steam   but you have stats and  everything else you mentioned?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

16 hours ago, Wormerine said:

I definitely consider it an RPG - you create a character, with stats and skills, and all interactions are character driven. Most importantly it revolves around roleplaying - who your memory wiped detective is is a central part of the game. It is light on systems, and doesn't have combat, but what makes RPG an RPG - it has it in spades.

The gameplay of Disco Elysium is just rng dice rolls against checks, barring presentation that's exactly the kind of stuff that goes on with other RPGs that use character skills more than player skills to determine success. It's a RPG, a damn fine one. As an annoying David Lynch fan, I will always crank up Inland Empire.

To tie this to the thread topic, I think BG3 is a distant second to Disco Elysium in terms of non-combat gameplay (much of the distance because Act 3, which swerves so much into combat encounters it's almost shocking) and both are the only (recent) games I can think of where failing at checks is entertaining as opposed to just losing. I think pretty much any RPG with the implementation of skills and rng based success would be served well with greater focus on making the dialogue actual gameplay instead of "pass the diplomacy check or fight" like the Owlfinder games or NWN2. Also more talking animals or inanimate objects please.

[Wormerine]

17 hours ago, BruceVC said:

So  do you consider Quest for Glory an  RPG ,  its labelled  an adventure   game  on Steam   but you have stats and  everything else you mentioned?

I am completely unfamiliar with those, so can't comment. I think a game can have same elements as Disco and not be roleplaying game, if roleplaying isn't a central focus of the game (and by roleplaying I mean being encouraged to think and make decisions as to who your character is and what he/she thinks - not just inhabiting a set in stone character with occasional branching story choices). For example Pentiment has some light RPG elements, but those are infrequent and just aren't impactful on the experience enough for me to consider it an RPG.

 

[Gorth]

/sigh

The old terminology debate. Didn't we already have this one 20 years ago when the forum was new???

Let me add some fuel to the fire and call RTS games for action games, the "strategy" part of the name being completely false advertising

[Wormerine]

13 hours ago, Gorth said:

Let me add some fuel to the fire and call RTS games for action games, the "strategy" part of the name being completely false advertising

I think it's apt criticism of the accessibility of the genre, but not necessarily apt description of the game itself. There is definitely strategy in RTS, but one needs a high degree of manual competence and even matchup for it to come into play. From my time with Starcraft - yes, most games came down to who was more manually efficient at managing macro.

That's why I do think turn-based system, that erases gap created by real time interactivity, is a more "pure" strategy experience, but I do find a lot of joy in the hybrid RTS experience.