Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous, Part VII

[xzar_monty]

2 hours ago, bugarup said:

I was disappointed with Aeon quests.

I only have experience of the Azata and the Trickster quests, and the former were so much more interesting than the latter. Everything about the Trickster was just banal, whereas the Azata path had some fun in it, although one of the quests (that came down to collecting pieces of junk) was quite stupid.

It would be interesting to be able to compare all the mythic paths, but there's no way I'm playing any other than these two. I mean, the game is long enough as it is, and the mythic path is not big enough of a part.

[bugarup]

2 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

I only have experience of the Azata and the Trickster quests, and the former were so much more interesting than the latter. Everything about the Trickster was just banal, whereas the Azata path had some fun in it, although one of the quests (that came down to collecting pieces of junk) was quite stupid.

It would be interesting to be able to compare all the mythic paths, but there's no way I'm playing any other than these two. I mean, the game is long enough as it is, and the mythic path is not big enough of a part.

It was the other way around for me. I was taken aback by the Trickster being really mean at first but grew kinda fond to its evil ways with time, whereas Azata's lolrandom My Little Pony ways made me  enough to drop the playthrough in Act V. Out of others, Angel seems to be "The One True Way" (though I haven't finished it yet), Demon is laughable edgelord who uses phrase "Assert dominance" seriously and is angry all the time like a hormonal teenager, Legend is good for flipping Areelu off, Aeon has a powerful ending but everything that leads to it is meh, Swarm...hm...I actually had a lot of fun eating everything although it does not compare to that DLC of Dragon Age where you're a darkspawn killing your main game's party, and Lich...Lich is love. 

[ShadySands]

That reminds me, I need to get back to my Devil run.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I'm holding out on my Lich run until the DLC archetypes drop, because Shadowcaster/Reanimator seems like the perfect gestalt for it.

5 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

I only have experience of the Azata and the Trickster quests, and the former were so much more interesting than the latter. Everything about the Trickster was just banal, whereas the Azata path had some fun in it, although one of the quests (that came down to collecting pieces of junk) was quite stupid.

It would be interesting to be able to compare all the mythic paths, but there's no way I'm playing any other than these two. I mean, the game is long enough as it is, and the mythic path is not big enough of a part.

I've only done Trickster and Azata as well, both swung wildly at all parts and the last act feels like an afterthought but at least Trickster has useful/funny unique options.

Everything I know about the other paths is hearsay, but the general consensus seems to be that

1)Angel, Demon, and Aeon are the best

2)Azata, Trickster, and Lich don't really have much compared to the above

3)The lategame paths have almost no content and barring legend are bottom tier

I'm holding out for DLC to finally drop to do more playthroughs, but I have neither the time nor inclination for 10 more runs of the game.

[HoonDing]

Legend feels great just for sticking it to Areelu Voorhees and the Horned Harlot.

[HoonDing]

So as angel so you can just ignore all tactics and just push the win/awesome Button of Justice. Even the dragon "ambush" was a piece of cake.

[Gromnir]

7 hours ago, HoonDing said:

So as angel so you can just ignore all tactics and just push the win/awesome Button of Justice. Even the dragon "ambush" was a piece of cake.

has been mentioned more than once in this thread that a merged spellbook angel effective moves the difficulty slider one or even two places to the left.  

'course you don't need play angel as merged spellbook and the game were released september o' 2021, so am thinking any sorta professed surprise regarding the powha o' merged spell book angel is gonna be met with at least some suspicion if not outright disbelief. 

additional wotr revelations which will come as a shock to nobody:

merged spellbook lich is strongk

animal companions is potent particular in the early portions of the game

camellia has... issues

HA! Good Fun!

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by Gromnir

[Sarex]

1 hour ago, HoonDing said:

So as angel so you can just ignore all tactics and just push the win/awesome Button of Justice. Even the dragon "ambush" was a piece of cake.

Unless you forget it exists.

[InsaneCommander]

 

[ShadySands]

I'm trying to play it but GOG says I don't own it. Then I go to buy it and then GOG says hey, this is in your season pass. Repeat.

[xzar_monty]

On 11/17/2023 at 9:20 AM, Gromnir said:

animal companions is potent particular in the early portions of the game

Depending on how you define "early portions", playing an Azata ranger, for instance, does give you a significant advantage, almost to the point of appearing unfair. Not to the point of choosing unfair difficulty, however, but still. I mean, high OB + animal + Aivu = power early on.

[HoonDing]

Every patch past week/days breaks mods. I thought we were past this. This developer is very annoying.

[uuuhhii]

more goblin but still not playable goblin

really hope game base on 2e would come out soon

[Gromnir]

On 11/23/2023 at 2:02 AM, xzar_monty said:

Depending on how you define "early portions", playing an Azata ranger, for instance, does give you a significant advantage, almost to the point of appearing unfair. Not to the point of choosing unfair difficulty, however, but still. I mean, high OB + animal + Aivu = power early on.

honest, we would say animal companions make the biggest difference for casters, especial early. casters being relative weak at low levels is one o' the awful legacies o' d&d which people just kinda accept. an animal companion for a sylvan sorcerer provides not only a meat shield, but a potential trip-bot while the sorcerer herself is limited to pew-pew and a couple casts o' grease 'tween rests.

the recent released dlc and its predecessor (i.e. through the ashes) is particular useful in illustrating our point about the impact o' animal companions at low level. our default through-the-ashes party config is three characters with animal companions and a skald... and if we could figure a good way to add an animal companion to a skald we would do so. doesn't so much matter what is the classes o' the three, but am wanting leopards and horses in part 'cause leopards make the best early game tanks and both leopards and horses get their upgrade at level four. early is better. through the ashes is challenging in large part 'cause it is low level d&d/pathfinder, which most crpg rush you through with a tutorial or purposeful ez content. a goblin with a pointy stick can kill you on a crit at low levels. a goblin with a pointy stick will kill you. rng makes such an outcome a near certainty after a handful o' encounters. sucks to be you at low levels in d&d or pathfinder.

as an aside, aivu has been nerfed considerable. in her original release form, she were a world beater at high levels. original she had a fear aura similar to the vavakia vanguards and her dispel magic were an effective auto success in every encounter including demon lords 'cause her caster level were her dragon level. is startling to recognize how few people used her dispel supremacy, and a few boardies mentioned they never even realized she were a spell caster, but her fear aura at high levels (which admitted could be annoying) as well as the dispel-win made high level aivu utter broken. 

regardless, animal companions, depending how utilized, may be effective during any portion o' the game, but am personal seeing 'em as most dispositive at low levels. in fact, since you mentioned unfair difficulty, there is a couple low level unfair encounters for which our strategy relies on 1) animal companions or 2) luck and a whole lotta reloads. examples: the shield maze water elemental and the ambush at martyr zacharius's cemetery. is possible to successful overcome the cemetery and water elemental sans animal companion support, but is not something we would wanna try again... evar.

am actual waiting to play the new dlc as am certain a few patches will be required to get it fully cooked rather than half-baked as is most owlcat releases. won't hurt us to wait a week or so.

HA! Good Fun!

[Gromnir]

observation unrelated to previous post:

the post dlc limit o' a single draconic bloodline means most of our blaster-caster builds has been nerfed.

chain lightning is capped at 20d.

expanded arsenal now works as described, so no stacking multi school bonuses.

numerous mythic extra attack abilities no longer stack with haste.

archmage armour needs be cast-- potions or items won't trigger.

chant no longer extends protective luck. still works with fortune.

while we never personal exploited, the nature's whisper and scaled fist ac bonuses no longer stack.

back to the drawing board for blasters.

HA! Good Fun!

ps(edit): ill omen looks to be a busted effective level one witch spell. the dual-cursed oracle archetype also gains access to the ill omen spell. 

Edited November 25, 2023 by Gromnir

[majestic]

I'm glad I finished my Unfair run while all these were still an option. My Angel Oracle run heavily relied on all of these, and it was still an annoying slog more than anything.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I finally got the game to load after trimming out some mods. Haven't played around too much, but I'm satisfied enough with Reanimator and Shadowcaster to finally do my Lich run......after I beat Fire Emblem: Engage.

Then I guess I'll slot my final runs for after the last DLC. Right now angling for Angel, Demon, Azata, Aeon > Devil, and Tdickster > Legend. Hopefully the dlc drops sooner than later so I can use the more copious time I have in the winter to play this janky **** (and Tears of the Kingdom) before BG3: Definite Enchanced Special ELEGANTO Edition drops.

[bugarup]

On 11/24/2023 at 10:21 PM, Gromnir said:

observation unrelated to previous post:

the post dlc limit o' a single draconic bloodline means most of our blaster-caster builds has been nerfed.

chain lightning is capped at 20d.

expanded arsenal now works as described, so no stacking multi school bonuses.

numerous mythic extra attack abilities no longer stack with haste.

archmage armour needs be cast-- potions or items won't trigger.

chant no longer extends protective luck. still works with fortune.

while we never personal exploited, the nature's whisper and scaled fist ac bonuses no longer stack.

back to the drawing board for blasters.

HA! Good Fun!

ps(edit): ill omen looks to be a busted effective level one witch spell. the dual-cursed oracle archetype also gains access to the ill omen spell. 

Yeah, what Wrathfinder absolutely needed was caster nerf, blaster or not. Fortunately, you can set auto-patching off in GOG, and none of recent patches had anything of interest for me, so I'm good.

[majestic]

Look on the bright side, now we can all spec Ember in a much more lore appropriate enchantment/conjuration build without feeling like wasting the potential of a boss deleting godess of death and destruction.

Edited November 27, 2023 by majestic

[HoonDing]

Camellia takes damage going through a Wall of Light. It really makes you think.

[Gromnir]

6 hours ago, bugarup said:

Yeah, what Wrathfinder absolutely needed was caster nerf, blaster or not. Fortunately, you can set auto-patching off in GOG, and none of recent patches had anything of interest for me, so I'm good.

well, it is possible to make casters op in wotr, but blasters is less an issue than is enchanters or illusionists. owlcat did address one o' the more obvious caster exploits with the counter-intuitive stacking o' expanded arsenal bonuses. even so, blasters got nerfed a fair bit more than casters who rely on dc to generate insta-kills. the thing is, merged spellbook angel and lich actual received a serious boost 'cause mythic spells post dlc benefit from spell specialization. 

owlcat is weird cats. if after two years you are looking to balance the game, merged spellbook lich and angels is the most obvious options, followed perhaps by trickster mythic... although am admitting crpg wotr animal companion mechanics may be more beyond the pale than any other curious owlcat implementation. regardless, the developer have taken the nerf bat to blasters in a big way with the changes to dragon bloodlines, chain lightning and other fixes, while buffing merged spellbook casters? is not that the blaster nerfs is wrong, 'cause the aforementioned sh!te, along with sneak attack damage from multiple sources, is just so not how blasters is envisioned to play in pnp. even so, it does make you wonder what is the rationale for owlcat fixes.

if we had to guess, am thinking balance is clear not an owlcat concern, but they did wish for features to work as the developer intended 'em to function. regardless o' how busted is merged spellbook angels, they are now working more as owlcat envisioned. converse, blasters may have taken a particular big power hit with the recent patch, but owlcat never intended for players to be able to apply multiple different draconic bloodlines. 

and to be fair, is still a heck o' a lot o' cheese in wotr for those gamers with a fromage fetish. as @majesticpoints out, unfair difficulty just became a bit more challenging with owlcat's removing obvious exploits, but am having no doubt players still interested in overcoming the highest difficulty will adapt extreme quick.

HA! Good Fun!

[bugarup]

2 hours ago, majestic said:

Look on the bright side, now we can all spec Ember in a much more lore appropriate enchantment/conjuration build without feeling like wasting the potential of a boss deleting godess of death and destruction.

Not Enchantment. Expanded Arsenal nerf means DC drop, meaning even the most developmentally stunted imp will be able to make saves. 

[InsaneCommander]

9 hours ago, bugarup said:

Yeah, what Wrathfinder absolutely needed was caster nerf, blaster or not. Fortunately, you can set auto-patching off in GOG, and none of recent patches had anything of interest for me, so I'm good.

Unfortunately, I'm not. I uninstalled the game since I won't play it again for a few months, at least. Hopefully somebody will mod back anything I dislike in the new version.

[Gromnir]

7 hours ago, bugarup said:

Not Enchantment. Expanded Arsenal nerf means DC drop, meaning even the most developmentally stunted imp will be able to make saves. 

maybe a little hyperbolic. if you have all the enchantment boosting gear on ember (and there is a great deal o' it,) plus the rest bonuses and various mythic bonuses which either boost your party ability scores, spell dc or lower foe saves, as well as silly op stuff such as the madness domain save reduction power, in addition to hexes and what not, then chances are w/o an extra couple stacks o' expanded arsenal  deskari gets a 25% chance to save v. the current 5%. play with a court poet in the party and deskari save chances get even worse.

the numbers remain so much in your favour as an enchanter, particular if you are speaking o' a main character demon or azata enchanter, that am personal not sweating the changes even for unfair battles. and for most battles beyond the bosses, a mid-level and beyond ember is gonna be more than adequate to insta-wipe the field even w/o a few buffs. 

from our pov, wotr unfair is 'bout silly and stoopid exploitation o' numbers and loopholes, and enchanters remain a win option given all the possibilities for exploitation. 

edit: have mentioned previous, but am thinking it is worth restating, we see core and perhaps even normal difficulty o' wotr as problematic for players unaware o' the exploits in pathfinder and owlcat's quirky take on pathfinder. is not so much that wotr is some kinda hardcore crpg, but the stat bloat utilized to make the game challenging for a party o' six in a setting with reload were implemented such that players who just wanna role-play and pick nifty classes, feats and weapons is likely gonna face frustrations.  if you avoid any and all exploitive options, the numerous wotr difficulty spikes for both boss and a few rando encounters will make the game feel mighty unfair even on core difficulty. wotr isn't hardcore in the traditional sense but rather in the age of decadence spin-- in a game with innumerable character generation and leveling options, there is a mere handful o' right choices.  if you are unaware o' the spells, class combos and feats which are disproportionate effective, you will suffer. 

converse, for the player who does know all the exploits and uses such to create an uber party o' unkillable demigods, even unfair difficulty isn't all that challenging even if it does become a soul numbing slog. 

am thinking the owlcat design philosophy is kinda obtuse for a cRPG, but fans defend it and demand more, so...

HA! Good Fun!

Edited November 28, 2023 by Gromnir

[ShadySands]

I beat the Lord of Nothing just a few minutes ago and I really enjoyed it. I was surprised that it wasn't super buggy, though not bug-free, and I could complete it with no major issues. I liked the almost mythic system they put in and think the 3 NPCs from this might be my favorite of the bunch. Curious to play through the main campaign to chapter 5 and see what they added.

E: I don't like that you can't stack dragon bloodlines anymore. I can still easily delete things but I had a groove and they're making me switch up things, the bastards.

Edited November 28, 2023 by ShadySands