Ukraine Conflict - Continues

[Mamoulian War]

A billboard war between UA and BY. I wish all wars would look like this, rather than what we see all around the world

 

 

[Malcador]

https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-poland-russia-war-jets-migs-6d843ccbd50fef5f96091a5bff8f3e01

Guess the MiGs may happen this time. Although, still not sure how useful these will be

[Malcador]

On 3/14/2023 at 4:52 PM, Gfted1 said:

My guess is the wing, else the debris would be sucked into the air intakes and FOD the engine. Interesting that dumping fuel on it didnt work. 

Underside I guess

 

 

[HoonDing]

How dare they

[Gfted1]

Huh, I guess that works. Doesnt the Su-27 have a canon? Hilarious that Russia is denying it while being completely unaware that it has cameras on it.

[Malcador]

21 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Huh, I guess that works. Doesnt the Su-27 have a canon? Hilarious that Russia is denying it while being completely unaware that it has cameras on it.

I think they were just screwing around with the drone, rather than wanting to down it.  And shooting up US hardware is probably an escalation in things.

[pmp10]

5 hours ago, Malcador said:

https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-poland-russia-war-jets-migs-6d843ccbd50fef5f96091a5bff8f3e01

Guess the MiGs may happen this time. Although, still not sure how useful these will be

It's better than nothing given the Ukrainian air losses but at these numbers it just buys them a few more months of limited air presence.
Politically US already announced it means nothing in regard to ever providing F16s.

On a side note it was pretty funny hearing US praised Poland for 'punching about its weight' on Ukraine.
The country is practically staking its security on Ukrainian survival and will be in serious trouble if that fails.

[Zoraptor]

25 minutes ago, Malcador said:

I think they were just screwing around with the drone, rather than wanting to down it.  And shooting up US hardware is probably an escalation in things.

They were definitely trying to down it; or at absolute minimum doing stuff they knew might well result in it. You don't have to physically hit it to do that though (--> wake turbulence).

At least it was a cheaper drone than the Global Hawk Iran actually shot down a couple of years ago in similar circumstances.

[Gfted1]

It was probably a ploy by the US, using the MQ-9 to hack the Garmin taped to the dash of the Su-27, sending false navigation information to purposely cause the crash.

[BruceVC]

8 hours ago, pmp10 said:

It's better than nothing given the Ukrainian air losses but at these numbers it just buys them a few more months of limited air presence.
Politically US already announced it means nothing in regard to ever providing F16s.

On a side note it was pretty funny hearing US praised Poland for 'punching about its weight' on Ukraine.
The country is practically staking its security on Ukrainian survival and will be in serious trouble if that fails.

How does Poland face any security risk from Russia, its part of NATO so its not like it will be invaded ?

 

[Gorth]

It's not like Russia doesn't have fuel to burn... export being a bit problematic at the moment

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Gorth said:

It's not like Russia doesn't have fuel to burn... export being a bit problematic at the moment

Gorthfuscious dont you think its provocative what Russia did to that US drone

The  Western media is not happy 

[Mamoulian War]

4 hours ago, BruceVC said:

How does Poland face any security risk from Russia, its part of NATO so its not like it will be invaded ?

 

Whole Eastern Europe faces security risks from Russia. The further away they are, the easier is to fight their hybrid warfare. In my country, we found a week ago, that one of the higher ups in police academy was Russian ex-Spetznaz. Somebody have covered him up until he ****ed-up and it got out to world… Polish has detained few days ago a group of Belarusians working for Russia near the Polish Airport main for the UA weapon deliveries. And so on… Few years ago, even though Czechia is in NATO as well, Russians foreign operatives have blown up ammunition depot in middle of Czechia in the heart of NATO, killing civilians, and NATO/EU members has responded by signing deal about Nordstream 2, and here we are today…

[bugarup]

12 hours ago, pmp10 said:

On a side note it was pretty funny hearing US praised Poland for 'punching about its weight' on Ukraine.
The country is practically staking its security on Ukrainian survival and will be in serious trouble if that fails.

Poland does not need to "stake" anything, its security is dependent on Ukraine's survival, because Poland knows way too well what sort of neighbour russia is. 

[BruceVC]

11 minutes ago, Mamoulian War said:

Whole Eastern Europe faces security risks from Russia. The further away they are, the easier is to fight their hybrid warfare. In my country, we found a week ago, that one of the higher ups in police academy was Russian ex-Spetznaz. Somebody have covered him up until he ****ed-up and it got out to world… Polish has detained few days ago a group of Belarusians working for Russia near the Polish Airport main for the UA weapon deliveries. And so on… Few years ago, even though Czechia is in NATO as well, Russians foreign operatives have blown up ammunition depot in middle of Czechia in the heart of NATO, killing civilians, and NATO/EU members has responded by signing deal about Nordstream 2, and here we are today…

Yes, I am not questioning real and  sustained Russian interference in East European countries in different ways

Im saying Russia is not going to invade a country that is part of NATO like they did with Ukraine 

 

[xzar_monty]

3 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Im saying Russia is not going to invade a country that is part of NATO like they did with Ukraine

Fair enough, but then you should say that. Earlier you asked how does "Poland face any security risk from Russia". "Any security risk" and "invasion" are NOT the same thing, so please be more careful.

Look at the Russian spies recently captured in NATO countries, such as Norway. Those are security risks.

Edited March 17, 2023 by xzar_monty

[Gorth]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

Gorthfuscious dont you think its provocative what Russia did to that US drone

The  Western media is not happy 

I would consider the presence of a spy drone from an active combatant in all but name that close to the front a provocation and probably take it down. You never know, it may save a few of your own lives (/devils advocate)

 

[BruceVC]

6 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

Fair enough, but then you should say that. Earlier you asked how does "Poland face any security risk from Russia". "Any security risk" and "invasion" are NOT the same thing, so please be more careful.

Look at the Russian spies recently captured in NATO countries, such as Norway. Those are security risks.

Absolutely, I should have been more clear. I meant an invasion that threatens security 

[Mamoulian War]

1 hour ago, Gorth said:

I would consider the presence of a spy drone from an active combatant in all but name that close to the front a provocation and probably take it down. You never know, it may save a few of your own lives (/devils advocate)

 

Understandable, but International Air Space is International Airspace, and Russian Jets are in there all the time, with a lot of cases, violating the airspace of sovereign countries with combat aircraft. Would you imagine the ****storm and all of the whining if something like that would happen to Russian aircraft?

[xzar_monty]

8 minutes ago, Mamoulian War said:

Understandable, but International Air Space is International Airspace, and Russian Jets are in there all the time, with a lot of cases, violating the airspace of sovereign countries with combat aircraft. Would you imagine the ****storm and all of the whining if something like that would happen to Russian aircraft?

Just as an example, Russian aircrafts have kept on violating Swedish and Finnish airspace throughout the Ukrainian conflict. There is nothing new about this, as they have done that quite a lot over the years. Whenever the issue is brought up, Russia is either brash or whiny. I cannot recall a single instance of it ever owning up.

I know respect can be a worthless currency, but it's stuff like this that makes it essentially impossible to have any respect for Russia, even if it doesn't wage war.

[Gorth]

43 minutes ago, Mamoulian War said:

Understandable, but International Air Space is International Airspace, and Russian Jets are in there all the time, with a lot of cases, violating the airspace of sovereign countries with combat aircraft. Would you imagine the ****storm and all of the whining if something like that would happen to Russian aircraft?

I would probably differentiate between downing a manned plane, potentially killing the pilot(s) and downing unmanned drones/balloons over open water

[pmp10]

2 hours ago, bugarup said:

Poland does not need to "stake" anything, its security is dependent on Ukraine's survival, because Poland knows way too well what sort of neighbour russia is. 

Precisely all the more reason to consider what happens if it cannot save Ukraine.

On one hand - Poland runs a rearmament program that clearly shows lack of trust in NATO.
On the other - a growing lack of military capabilities that will take over a decade to fill.

[Gfted1]

MQ-9 is capable of being armed with Sidewinders. We should try that.

[Mamoulian War]

50 minutes ago, Gorth said:

I would probably differentiate between downing a manned plane, potentially killing the pilot(s) and downing unmanned drones/balloons over open water

Fair enough, but from technical standpoint, there is still no difference. Especially, if you never know, when a Russia will send you an unwelcome present, even if you are in NATO, as they have shown few times before. Like that big explosion in Czechia or Bulgaria.

[Malcador]

4 hours ago, Mamoulian War said:

Understandable, but International Air Space is International Airspace, and Russian Jets are in there all the time, with a lot of cases, violating the airspace of sovereign countries with combat aircraft. Would you imagine the ****storm and all of the whining if something like that would happen to Russian aircraft?

A Russian drone getting knocked out of the sky ? I guess the same whining we have now and not much else  Russia had a pilot get shot down and didn't nuke Turkey, after all.