Ukraine Conflict - Continues

[Mamoulian War]

One Slovak journalist have published this today (Google Translated).

Quote

Two former members of the Wagner PMC told gulagu.net about their service in Prigozhin's personal army. Among others, they confessed to mass murders of more than 20 Ukrainian teenagers. Both mercenaries are former prisoners. They also talk about how they blew up a pit with more than 50 wounded Ukrainian prisoners and Russian so-called refuseniks (soldiers who refuse to shoot Ukrainians). They also say that they cleaned the houses in Soledar and Bachmut. They say that the order to murder everyone they find was given by Prigozhin himself.

[Mamoulian War]

Here is the only safe link, I have found about the ”news” above.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/17/7398225/

 

Quote

Quote from Uldarov: "I executed the order with this very hand, I killed the children. You understand, by order. The fact that we… We were given the order to wipe out and kill everyone… We went and killed everyone – women, men, pensioners and children, in particular, the small ones, 5 year-olds."

Uldarov also said that he "cleared" the basement of a 9-story building in Bakhmut with 300-400 civilians inside, including 40 children. The occupier adds that "he had no choice" and that he had an order to kill everyone.

 

[Zoraptor]

..then they impaled babies on their helmets after turfing them out of their incubators.

 

And I know I get all my economic news from analysts for the, er, dailyhodl. Nothing says authoritative study of the important trends of the day like, hmm, using a fricking reddit meme when naming your website.

[kanisatha]

5 hours ago, Keyrock said:

You misunderstand. I'm not saying the Ukrainians don't care about their land, I'm saying we don't care about the Ukrainians. And by "we" I mean the current administration, not ordinary Muricans, us regular folks don't really have much of a say in this.

As far as whether I'm "one of those leftists", I'm actually a libertarian. Make of that what you will.

Oh, okay. This I can get behind. What bothered me about what you said earlier was the "EVERYBODY else loses" part, because clearly the Ukrainians don't lose by fighting for their homes and lives.

Also, I have a very strong libertarian streak myself, so I'm quite good with that.

5 hours ago, Keyrock said:

The whole left vs right thing is a distraction. The real teams are Team 1% vs Team 99%, they always have been.

Totally agree with this too. I tend to word it as "The elites versus the rest of us," but it's the same point.

[Malcador]

2 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

..then they impaled babies on their helmets after turfing them out of their incubators.

Yeah that part does seem a bit much, at that point why not blow the building up or something

[Lexx]

6 hours ago, Keyrock said:

In a weird turn of events, the Democrats are the ones that are pushing to keep this war going, while the Republicans are the mostly pushing for a cease fire and getting a diplomatic end to this war. That could, of course, just be because the Democrats are the ones in power right now.

Also, some of the more famous (and most loudest) republicans are paid by Moscow, so it's in their interest to support a winning russia.

Edited April 17, 2023 by Lexx

[Mamoulian War]

 

[Keyrock]

1 hour ago, kanisatha said:

Oh, okay. This I can get behind. What bothered me about what you said earlier was the "EVERYBODY else loses" part, because clearly the Ukrainians don't lose by fighting for their homes and lives.

Yeah, that was a bit too general on my part. But I am also of the mind that I don't see this ending any other way than with Russia annexing the regions they set out to annex to begin with. Not without other nations getting directly involved, and other nations getting directly involved is a path that has the potential of all of us winding up dead via nuclear winter. I'm not a fan of of Russia taking chunks of Ukraine, but I absolutely, positively do not want Armageddon.

[xzar_monty]

13 hours ago, Keyrock said:

You misunderstand. I'm not saying the Ukrainians don't care about their land, I'm saying we don't care about the Ukrainians. And by "we" I mean the current administration, not ordinary Muricans, us regular folks don't really have much of a say in this.

But from all the available evidence we would have to conclude that they do care. After all, they support Ukraine more than anyone else in the world. What else could they do to demonstrate that they care? Economic and other considerations are there as well, but it would be quite wrong to conclude that economy is the only thing that matters -- and even if it were, that is currently demonstrated in a way that also supplies care to the Ukrainians.

So it's much more complex that you try to make it sound.

[Agiel]

A Ukrainian pal had some family who remained for some years in Crimea following the annexation. They told him that much of the propaganda from the Kremlin-sponsored TV programming in years past has a pretty big focus on the "decay" of the West and the "decay" of European moral values, particularly in regards to transgender issues and gender roles*. Given the current Trumpian crusade against transgender rights it's hard for me to ignore the weird parallels in their values. 

*Can provide a Youtube link by PM on request, as the propaganda video he shared with me seems to me too skeevy for a PG13 board. 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Agiel

[xzar_monty]

4 minutes ago, Agiel said:

Given the current Trumpian crusade against transgender rights it's hard for me to ignore the weird parallels in their values.

Indeed. Trump is a gift from heaven for Putin & co, and the extent to which he is in debt or something to Putin is of course debatable and unknown. In the link I presented above, the historian Timothy Snyder has some very interesting things to say about the ways in which Trump was and is the perfect, perfect thing for Putin.

@Lexx, your "most loudest" (above) made me chuckle. It's sort of Shakespearean, although it was probably just a mistake.

Edited April 18, 2023 by xzar_monty

[Lexx]

26 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

@Lexx, your "most loudest" (above) made me chuckle. It's sort of Shakespearean, although it was probably just a mistake.

What's wrong with it?

[xzar_monty]

14 minutes ago, Lexx said:

What's wrong with it?

It's essentially a double superlative. The word "loudest" already means the most loud, so to put "most" in front of it is unnecessary, almost tautological. It's like "the most best". You don't have to say that, just say "the best". The most best isn't any bester than the best.

As for Shakespeare, his play Julius Caesar contains a very famous line "the most unkindest cut of all" which has the same double superlative, deliberately of course.

Edited April 18, 2023 by xzar_monty

[Lexx]

55 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

It's essentially a double superlative. The word "loudest" already means the most loud, so to put "most" in front of it is unnecessary, almost tautological. It's like "the most best". You don't have to say that, just say "the best". The most best isn't any bester than the best.

As for Shakespeare, his play Julius Caesar contains a very famous line "the most unkindest cut of all" which has the same double superlative, deliberately of course.

I see, thanks. Completely went past me in the moment.

[xzar_monty]

"Russia is basically ISIS, only with snow", said the Ukrainian soldier known as Operator Starsky.

Now, I probably wouldn't go that far, but that is a marvelously pithy phrase, so hats off for that.

[Lexx]

I thought the same.. comparing them with ISIS kinda washes down what ISIS actually did. But when writing that on reddit, I got downvoted into oblivion.

[xzar_monty]

I think it's a great insult, but you're right about how it compares to the actual ISIS. The reason I brought it up is that great insults are rare, and I regard that as one. It's terse, descriptive and cruel, and it has no adjectives. Someone like Oscar Wilde would probably approve.

[Malcador]

3 hours ago, Lexx said:

I thought the same.. comparing them with ISIS kinda washes down what ISIS actually did. But when writing that on reddit, I got downvoted into oblivion.

If it's r/ukrainianconflict that place is rife with morons, even for Reddit.  So many bloodthirsty posts by impotent losers.  Well those and people spewing hate on whatever nation is denying Sacred Ukrainians their desires (Switzerland, Germany, India, lately was France)

Edited April 18, 2023 by Malcador

[Keyrock]

I find it interesting, if unsurprising, that the mainstream media here in Murica is fully concentrating on smearing the leaker of the pentagon files (he may well be a racist but that's not the point) and not talking about what's in said files. Thankfully, there are independent journalists out there still doing the job that journalists are supposed to do and the information in the pentagon leak is out there (it's rather bleak). The guy from the pentagon told the press not to disclose the information and the mainstream media is shamefully complying, like the good doggies they are. Here's a bone good doggie, here's a treat for you. D'aww look at you wag your tail, adorable!

One of the most important functions of a free press is to hold the government accountable. They should not be working hand in hand with the government. When the press tells the public what the government wants them to hear and stays silent on what they don't, well, we have a word for that. Propaganda.

[xzar_monty]

6 minutes ago, Keyrock said:

The guy from the pentagon told the press not to disclose the information and the mainstream media is shamefully complying, like the good doggies they are.

But there genuinely is information that is better and safer left undisclosed. Think of the Edward Snowden case: the leak contained an awful lot of stuff that was very inconvenient for the NSA, and the press did not comply to any requests to keep it away from public view, so the description of the media as good doggies doesn't really hold, at least not in all cases.

Note: I don't know what's in the files, so what I wrote above may not apply. But again, the situation is probably more complex than how you describe it. Over here, for instance, there are certain facts concerning what has and what has not been done to help Ukraine, and in my mind there's no question that information such as this should not be in the public domain, because it's better if Russia doesn't get hold of it.

But in terms of US history, it is true that the government does have an awful record of lying to the public, and I think it's absolutely clear that this is one of the reasons that conspiracy theories are so rife in the US, even if there's ordinarily a logical flaw in succumbing to them. (History is a bit of a bítch: the fact that folks like Galileo and Semmelweis were mistreated and misunderstood enables every crackpot to think that they are equally mistreated and misunderstood, when in fact almost none of them have anything worthwhile to offer to the world.)

[Chilloutman]

well there really is nothing interesting in those files AFAIK. Nor nothing most people don't know about already so I am not that surprised not many people talking about it much

[Keyrock]

There are a bunch of things in the files, some of the bleakest are that the death toll is MUCH higher than what has been reported in mainstream media, the pentagon does not expect Ukraine to retake the territories they've lost, and they don't expect any diplomacy for the rest of the year.

[xzar_monty]

The highest number I've seen in the mainstream media over here is in excess of 500K, combined (Ukraine + Russia). I doubt it's much higher than that, but obviously I don't know -- what do the files say, then?

[Malcador]

They did mention some interesting stuff in the news, like Ukrainian air defense ammo stockpiles, some mention of the casualties.   That said, nothing to earth shattering especially if you do waste spend your time following the war closely via analysts and OSINT types.

[BruceVC]

2 minutes ago, Malcador said:

They did mention some interesting stuff in the news, like Ukrainian air defense ammo stockpiles, some mention of the casualties.   That said, nothing to earth shattering especially if you do waste spend your time following the war closely via analysts and OSINT types.

I agree, from what I have seen its nothing that we dont already know or has been raised from one source or another. Also what difference does it make if the Ukrainians have lost more people  than they are open about, why would that change anything? They the ones fighting against an invasion

@Keyrock but as far the public should be aware of confidential  military or secretive reports. No country in the world has a policy like that so I dont see why the US should. And the  leaks were confidential for a reason