Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous, Part 6

[xzar_monty]

On 3/4/2023 at 10:59 AM, Gorth said:

Not helped by atrocious die rolling

Owlcat titles provoke paranoia. If you get a bit nasty and decide to save-scum on a skill roll where you have 50% chance of success, you may have to roll it 20+ times. There is nothing impossible about this, that's for sure, but when this has happened with two different titles and in five or six instances, something in you is likely to go "Hmm".

Thought experiment: you toss a coin. It comes up heads every time. After how many tosses will you start thinking, "Now this is weird", and after how many tosses will you say, "This is impossible!"?

[Gorth]

3 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

Owlcat titles provoke paranoia. If you get a bit nasty and decide to save-scum on a skill roll where you have 50% chance of success, you may have to roll it 20+ times. There is nothing impossible about this, that's for sure, but when this has happened with two different titles and in five or six instances, something in you is likely to go "Hmm".

Thought experiment: you toss a coin. It comes up heads every time. After how many tosses will you start thinking, "Now this is weird", and after how many tosses will you say, "This is impossible!"?

The only time I *really* thought that, was many, many years ago in a game of Warhammer 40K Epic (the one with 6mm miniatures). One of my units was an Ork Pulsa Rokkit battery. It works by estimating the distance the enemy unit and then you declare how many dice you're going to roll. The sum of your dice is the distance the rokkits fly towards the enemy. I was very good at estimating distances by eye at the time (you were not allowed to measure the distance first). 24 inches, so i told my opponent I would load up the missiles with 7 dice worth of fuel. Should give some nice number not too far from 24. Until I rolled 6 1's and a 2... the entire missile salvo landed on top of my own army, annihilated a quarter of my army. My weird boyz panicked (failed their morale roll) and exploded with maximum range. By then three quarters of my army was no more. Two of the remaining units failed their morale rolls because of army losses and fled over the back line. My entire army effectively gone before my opponent even had his first turn

We've often laughed at that incident since. So yes, I know dice can be fickle and sometimes it just feels like Gork and Mork are out ta get ya!

I do miss my old greenskin army at times

[Zoraptor]

I'm pretty sure one of the games with 95% chance to hit but always seems to miss- new XCOM?- actually did at one point have a bug where the to hit probability was incorrect and could roll over to a very low chance to hit instead. That would have been a great one for rng paranoia.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I think the thing is that the RNG isn't really random at all. It is the will of a cruel god who feeds off the suffering of gamers.

[Gorth]

5 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

I'm pretty sure one of the games with 95% chance to hit but always seems to miss- new XCOM?- actually did at one point have a bug where the to hit probability was incorrect and could roll over to a very low chance to hit instead. That would have been a great one for rng paranoia.

Master of Orion II is one of those games that are "deterministic". If things don't go well and you reload. Unless you take different actions, outcome will be 100% identical. I.e. galactic events, Antaran/Space Dragon/Giant Amoebae etc. attacks will happen at the same times for the same planets. You need to make different decisions, to change what looks superficially like RNG events, but aren't

 

Edit: On topic, got my shiny new Ziggurath. It's a big building with the entrance close to where the "Lich Vendor" is located in Drezen (the one selling stuff for undead practitioners). It's quite roomy on the inside. Having some great ideas for how to perform ritual virgin sacrifices in the basement

[Zoraptor]

39 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Master of Orion II is one of those games that are "deterministic". If things don't go well and you reload. Unless you take different actions, outcome will be 100% identical. I.e. galactic events, Antaran/Space Dragon/Giant Amoebae etc. attacks will happen at the same times for the same planets. You need to make different decisions, to change what looks superficially like RNG events, but aren't

That's a preserved random seed where the seed number for RNG operations is, uh, preserved, in the save game. On a short term basis it happens in quite a lot of games, it's really noticeable in Civ3-4 for example and even the recent civ clone Old World has a short term seed in the saves to stop save scumming.

"The second method uses computational algorithms that can produce long sequences of apparently random results, which are in fact completely determined by a shorter initial value, known as a seed value or key. As a result, the entire seemingly random sequence can be reproduced if the seed value is known" to quote wikipedia.

[xzar_monty]

4 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

That's a preserved random seed where the seed number for RNG operations is, uh, preserved, in the save game. On a short term basis it happens in quite a lot of games, it's really noticeable in Civ3-4 for example and even the recent civ clone Old World has a short term seed in the saves to stop save scumming.

In Civ4 at least (don't know about 3) you can toggle the workings of the random seed in the Options, to have it either work as you describe or to create genuinely random events every time.

Edited March 6, 2023 by xzar_monty

[Humanoid]

XCOM: Enemy Unknown has a bug where regardless of the hit calculations, the game relies on Unreal Engine to do its thing and trace the path of the projectile from the shooter to the target. If the game engine fails to resolve the shot graphically, then you lose the hit even if it's 100%.

[InsaneCommander]

 

[Sarex]

So wait, the DLC is a new companion?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

44 minutes ago, Sarex said:

So wait, the DLC is a new companion?

Yes, new companion and new class. I think Shifter may be underwhelming but we'll have to see what new gear Owlcat put in for natural attacks/unarmed first.

[Sarex]

Guess something to wait for before playing again. On that note any recommendation for the next mythic path? I was thinking about legend, but that may be boring story wise. Is Aeon good?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I

1 hour ago, Sarex said:

Guess something to wait for before playing again. On that note any recommendation for the next mythic path? I was thinking about legend, but that may be boring story wise. Is Aeon good?

Aeon - cosmic bureaucrat NO FUN ALLOWED!

Azata - hippie commune and a cookie obsessed dragon

Demon - RAGE! and maybe smash Nocticula

Devil - Evil lawyer

Gold Dragon - hippie without the commune 

Legend - super mortal who is probably stronger than all the mythics

Lich - intern of undeath who is a bitch to bone daddy 

Swarm - nom nom nom

Trickster - dril as a mythic

[ShadySands]

I like Aeon to Devil and Azata... but not to Devil. Dragon is super unique but not really that fun or interesting

[Sarex]

2 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

I like Aeon to Devil and Azata... but not to Devil.

Like start out as Aeon but switch to Devil?

[ShadySands]

Yeah, only Aeon and Azata can do it but I don't like how Azata does it.

PS as long as you save before going Devil you can keep a chapter 5 Aeon playthrough as well.

Spoiler

There's a counter for your Aeon decisions (true (I am the LAW!), renegade (I'm nice though), devil (I'm selfish) but you can just toybox it

 

Edited March 7, 2023 by ShadySands

[Gromnir]

azata just got a silly kinda item related upgrade. the ring of triumphant advance doubles morale bonuses. incredible might is an azata sooper powha which adds a morale bonus  based on mythic level bonus to ab and damage, so up to +10. the ring makes this bonus potential +20, albeit level 10 mythic is achieved at the extreme end o' game. the morale bonuses for the azata spell believe in yourself is to attributes and went from max+5 to +10 when wearing the ring. previous to this patch, believe in yourself were unaffected by the ring of triumphant advance.

admitted, the ring is now working as described, but is nevertheless a nice bonus for azata to be seeing believe in yourself bonuses doubled. 

edit: is a handful o' new druid spells which interest us more than a little. winter's grasp and tidal surge is cold conjuration spells which cause prone and do damage. as they are conjuration, they are gonna ignore sr. explosion of rot, a necromancy spell, is also kinda nifty as it does decent damage but also renders foes staggered. 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited March 9, 2023 by Gromnir

[Gromnir]

we recruited ulbrig.

Spoiler

he is available in act 1 via the black wing encounter where you first meet the storyteller. if you insta warp back to the defender's heart after rescuing the storyteller, be sure to first exit the tavern and then re-enter to initiate the ulbrig recruitment cutscene.

as far as am able to tell, if you want ulbrig in act 1, you should be able to acquire him anytime up until your assault on the grey garrison. we initial started a new game, but act 1 is prohibitive tedious. am gonna instead use an already existing character. unfortunate, given the saves we have available, am gonna need redo the defender's heart defense. 

maybe tomorrow.

HA! Good Fun!

[Vaeliorin]

On 3/7/2023 at 2:47 PM, Sarex said:

Guess something to wait for before playing again. On that note any recommendation for the next mythic path? I was thinking about legend, but that may be boring story wise. Is Aeon good?

Given that I just (like, 30 minutes ago) finished a True Aeon playthrough, I can indeed say Aeon is good.  I think I preferred Angel a little because some of the NPCs are much more relevant as an Angel, but Aeon is really cool (and has an ending only available to True Aeons that is arguably the best outcome for Golarion.)

Trying to decide what to play next (since I can finally update my game and install the DLC now that I've finished my playthrough.)  I'm thinking I want to do a no pet playthrough next, so it's probably going to be Trickster (also so I can reasonably take Wendu/Cam.)

[xzar_monty]

@Gromnir, so, ahem, I surprised myself and started a new game, deciding to play a true rogue this time (knife master). At level 10, I can deal extremely impressive amounts of damage, there's no question about that. It's just that there's a bit of a problem when it comes to hitting the enemies in the first place: the rogue's average-only BAB is a definite hindrance, in my view.

So, the immediate questions are: is this a genuine problem with the rogue? Is there a workaround? Does it involve serious optimization of the game mechanics? I suppose the answers are yes, yes and yes.

It's not that the head honcho of my party is bad in any way, it's just that he doesn't hit as often as I think he should, to create a reasonable balance between attempts missed and damage dealt when he hits. Multi-classing as a fighter in order to increase BAB would decrease the sneak damage, so that's a bit of a no-go for me, I think.

[Gromnir]

3 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

@Gromnir, so, ahem, I surprised myself and started a new game, deciding to play a true rogue this time (knife master). At level 10, I can deal extremely impressive amounts of damage, there's no question about that. It's just that there's a bit of a problem when it comes to hitting the enemies in the first place: the rogue's average-only BAB is a definite hindrance, in my view.

So, the immediate questions are: is this a genuine problem with the rogue? Is there a workaround? Does it involve serious optimization of the game mechanics? I suppose the answers are yes, yes and yes.

It's not that the head honcho of my party is bad in any way, it's just that he doesn't hit as often as I think he should, to create a reasonable balance between attempts missed and damage dealt when he hits. Multi-classing as a fighter in order to increase BAB would decrease the sneak damage, so that's a bit of a no-go for me, I think.

multiclass as a slayer keeps sneak damage high, but then you likely wonder, why not just go full slayer?  a few levels of mutagen warrior or demonslayer (a single level o' demonslayer is one o' the more common multiclass dips) will only slight decrease sneak damage while providing noteworthy bab advantages. worth considering.

a skald party member is also an option for increasing bab. seelah, wenduag and camellia work well as skald companions. late game, a non merc skald such as seelah is gonna be providing as much as +10 to bab to your party. at level 10, you will enjoy +6 to bab and with strategic use of lingering song, you should be able to use reckless + inspired fury functional in every battle. curious, the skald is also gonna provide you with a bite attack via animal fury, and so too should ember via beast's gift. make sure your second finesse weapon choice is bite if you got a skald providing natural attacks. 

bards is also fantastic bab buffers, but unfortunate their granted competence bonuses won't stack with a cleric's guarded hearth which makes bard's functional less useful during the important boss battles.

rando suggestions:

-be sure to take outflank with all non caster party members as such will enhance attack bonuses and increase attacks of opportunity whenever a party member crits... is also a reason for possible taking kukri as your weapon even if you gotta burn a feat to acquire martial weapons.

-ever ready is a serious win option, though is only gonna be noticeable later.

-opportunist is another must particular as it is gonna have synergy with the aforementioned ever ready.

attacking first is also a nice way to effective increase your hit chances as you will catch foes flat-footed, robbing them o' their dex bonuses to ac. assuming your are going high dex, you should already have decent initiative, but make sure to take any opportunity to increase initiative. 

regardless, knife master and knife master/vivisectionist builds is more than viable at least up to hard difficulty w/o taking any high bab multiclass options. knife master and knife master/vivisectionist is particular lethal as a trickster, though am admitted not a fan o' trickster. curious and mayhap counterintuitive, aeon is also a good option. 

strength builds have a serious advantage in wotr as they is more likely to be able to stack strength through size increases. melee rogues is particular challenging as they do not benefit from mounted combat, so w/o the pounce ability from kitsune or skald, you are often wasting your first round to reach an enemy. dex builds is requiring a bit more... finesse.

btw, rogues improve serious 'round level twelve. you will have enough access to items and party member spell buffs so as to compete with high bab classes. heck, eventual through  high umd or vivisectionist multi, you will have access to transformation. 

aside: we completed the tavern defense yet again. *groan* weird bug as persistent aoe effects is not working during that battle; good news & bad news. our ember's burning entanglement were useless and so to were a grease. at the same time, dretch spamming o' stinking cloud were also ineffective. worked in our favour and am s'posing the bug will eventual be fixed, but am hopeful is only the tavern defense battle which is similar broken.

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

[Sarex]

I thought the new DLC was included in the Mythic edition. Mmmm not to sure I want to drop 13 bucks for a new character, will think about it when I start a new playthrough.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, Sarex said:

I thought the new DLC was included in the Mythic edition. Mmmm not to sure I want to drop 13 bucks for a new character, will think about it when I start a new playthrough.

You get a new class too, in case you want to do some multiclass shenanigans or even the insane gestalt stuff the Toybox mod enables.

Personally I was going to do a Bloodrager or Demon Dancer Skald for my Demon run.....but I'm kind of interested in a natural attack build and Shifter may work better for that. Assuming the alignment restriction isn't Neutral or relaxed for the fiend or rage shifter. I haven't officially picked up the DLC but I probably will soon to check out the class.

[Sarex]

30 minutes ago, PK htiw klaw eriF said:

You get a new class too, in case you want to do some multiclass shenanigans or even the insane gestalt stuff the Toybox mod enables.

Personally I was going to do a Bloodrager or Demon Dancer Skald for my Demon run.....but I'm kind of interested in a natural attack build and Shifter may work better for that. Assuming the alignment restriction isn't Neutral or relaxed for the fiend or rage shifter. I haven't officially picked up the DLC but I probably will soon to check out the class.

I was going to do an Aeon monk, but again I was thinking about a straight monk.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

On 3/12/2023 at 3:17 PM, Sarex said:

I was going to do an Aeon monk, but again I was thinking about a straight monk.

I haven't played Aeon yet, but when I tested out builds it gave me the impression of adding stuff to a character more than buffing what a character could do, if that makes sense.

Sohei is probably the best monk for going the full 20, imo the monk needs some accuracy and polearms are stronger than unarmed due to better crit ranges and reach. And you get a pet on top of that, which you can ride to flank and flurry every round.

Edited March 13, 2023 by PK htiw klaw eriF