Ukraine Conflict - "A state of war only serves as an excuse for domestic tyranny"

[Malcador]

Another $3B in aid from US today.  Don't think anything sexy in it. Massaro probably upset they are not donating a Nimitz class.

[Sarex]

I would be interested to see the numbers on how much this war cost the West in dollar value and how much it cost Russia. Seeing how much bang for their buck each side got.

[Gfted1]

If not for the sun, smoking, and stormy seas, I imagine the war is remarkably inexpensive for Russia.

[Malcador]

1 hour ago, Sarex said:

I would be interested to see the numbers on how much this war cost the West in dollar value and how much it cost Russia. Seeing how much bang for their buck each side got.

Going to be hard to translate dead and wounded into dollars, so I think the Russians are probably worse off.

[BruceVC]

5 hours ago, Malcador said:

Going to be hard to translate dead and wounded into dollars, so I think the Russians are probably worse off.

Its  a very strange question to equate  the ravages and loss of life caused by war with the amount of financial aid a country like the US has provided but end of the day the US can afford it and this is a proxy war to stop Putins Russian hegemony and militancy. It was inevitable if you look at Putins geopolitical decisions over the last 20 years 

So despite the economic cost to the US its much better to fund Ukraine than for US military   to be directly involved  especially when you consider the fact that the US didnt start this 

[BruceVC]

There is a video circulating of Dugin at his daughters funeral,  I decided not to post it,  where he is pushing his normal propaganda and saying things like " her first words, which we taught her of course, were Russia, our empire , our mighty state...... "  its really insensitive  but why waste a good funeral  when there is a grandstanding opportunity ?

 

 

[Zoraptor]

A serving NZDF soldier has been announced as killed in Ukraine, though there are no further details to hand so far (except that they were meant to be 'on leave' rather than active duty).

[xzar_monty]

An NZDF soldier killed in Ukraine sort of demonstrates that "people from all over the world" have rushed to aid Ukraine. Not in great numbers, of course, but they have. (And yes, I know, it happens in other conflicts, as well. The funniest instance I know is the young Dracula, I mean Christopher Lee, going to Finland to help in the Winter War. He was turned back quite quickly. He tells about this in his autobiography, Lord of Misrule.)

Edited August 24, 2022 by xzar_monty

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Zoraptor said:

A serving NZDF soldier has been announced as killed in Ukraine, though there are no further details to hand so far (except that they were meant to be 'on leave' rather than active duty).

Im sorry for the loss, I have huge respect for anyone who is prepared to fight and die in defense  of freedom in another country. It demonstrates  bravery  and his death wasnt a waste 

[BruceVC]

The anger  and significance of the Russian bear on the Russian economy 

 

[Malcador]

7 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Its  a very strange question to equate  the ravages and loss of life caused by war with the amount of financial aid a country like the US has provided but end of the day the US can afford it and this is a proxy war to stop Putins Russian hegemony and militancy. It was inevitable if you look at Putins geopolitical decisions over the last 20 years 

So despite the economic cost to the US its much better to fund Ukraine than for US military   to be directly involved  especially when you consider the fact that the US didnt start this 

It's not a strange question, really. The war has an economic dimension.  And also it wasn't equating anything beyond what the US and others are giving Ukraine and Russia spending.

6 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

An NZDF soldier killed in Ukraine sort of demonstrates that "people from all over the world" have rushed to aid Ukraine. Not in great numbers, of course, but they have. (And yes, I know, it happens in other conflicts, as well. The funniest instance I know is the young Dracula, I mean Christopher Lee, going to Finland to help in the Winter War. He was turned back quite quickly. He tells about this in his autobiography, Lord of Misrule.)

Strange to turn him back, why give up free bodies.

[BruceVC]

6 minutes ago, Malcador said:

It's not a strange question, really. The war has an economic dimension.  And also it wasn't equating anything beyond what the US and others are giving Ukraine and Russia spending.

Strange to turn him back, why give up free bodies.

Its a very strange question because how would you calculate the cost to Russia when you have no idea what the actual cost or loss of Russian resources is? Its easy with the US because you can Google the amount of aid

[Malcador]

43 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Its a very strange question because how would you calculate the cost to Russia when you have no idea what the actual cost or loss of Russian resources is? Its easy with the US because you can Google the amount of aid

Well you can calculate losses via material and use of weapons. Hard to know for certain for the Russians, but it is something to wonder about.  As for what they lost, I think the Oryx guy online handles that, or some other OSINT can help.

Well and you can trust the Pentagon

BoJo back in Kiev, things must be bad in UK..

Edited August 24, 2022 by Malcador

[Mamoulian War]

Speaking of costs. According to reports published in our todays news, Russia lost in 6 months in Ukraine more tanks, than they have manufactured since 1992…

[Mamoulian War]

And another case where the health advice of veterinarians was ignored

Head of occupation authorities of Mykhailivka town of Zaporizhzhia region Ivan Sushko was killed in car explosion.

 

EDIT: added the source

 

 

Edited August 24, 2022 by Mamoulian War

[Mamoulian War]

18 hours ago, Sarex said:

I would be interested to see the numbers on how much this war cost the West in dollar value and how much it cost Russia. Seeing how much bang for their buck each side got.

Guesstimates for Russian side by Forbes. TLDR 16.6 billion (milliard) USD in destroyed Russian military equipment in 6 months. (not counting their missiles fired).

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/08/24/7364613/

Edited August 24, 2022 by Mamoulian War

[Gorth]

9 hours ago, Mamoulian War said:

Guesstimates for Russian side by Forbes. TLDR 16.6 billion (milliard) USD in destroyed Russian military equipment in 6 months. (not counting their missiles fired).

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/08/24/7364613/

Considering how dirt cheap Russian tanks are to manufacture, I wouldn't be surprised if the handful of expensive high tech missiles (they had a few, emphasis on few) fired at the beginning of the war makes up most of the war expenditure. The Russian state also offers economic incentive to people to have more babies, so you never know, they may be in it for the long war... (only serious about the first part in case there was any doubt)

[BruceVC]

6 months, thats how long this terrible war has been ongoing and yesterday on CNN there was series of documentaries that highlighted this. Do you guys remember the debates we were having before the 24 February? Most of us were saying " Putin will never invade Ukraine " 

The only person I remember saying its likely was @pmp10

I will never forget the 3 famous lies, the 3 big N to justify the invasion as I call it. Nazi, Nukes and NATO and how in SA Russian apologists use to try to justify it based on false and inaccurate equivalences like " its similar  to the Cuban Missile Crisis " ....you cant blame Russia, they were provoked by the US " 

I thought Russia would defeat and occupy Ukraine in 3 weeks because of the reality of the size and funding of the 2 armies. I am still surprised how well the Ukrainian army has done and is doing. Its because of 3 main reasons IMO

• The military hardware  supplied to Ukraine has made a huge difference 
• The fact the Ukrainians  are fighting for there country makes a difference 
• The Russian army had been plagued by problems most of us didnt think they would experience like training and corruption

Hopefully we can find some peaceful solution to end Putins War but who  knows?

6 months....thats when Putins War started

 

[BruceVC]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Krugman

Interestingly but yesterday there was an interview with the Nobel awarded economist Paul Krugman about the economic cost to the US for the aid given to Ukraine. He made some good points when  he explained the US is $25 trillion economy and  total aid to Ukraine has only been about $25 billion. He said in fact the  total aid  amount is inconsequential to the US and Western countries but that relatively small amount of aid has been enough to stop Russia so far  from defeating Ukraine militarily

His real concern is the global inflation and how the US economy has been too strong and needs to go through a necessary  correction to slow it down but he is not predicting a real US recession because he says its not possible to make those predictions because of all the variables and moving parts around the global and US economy 

 

[BruceVC]

2 hours ago, BruceVC said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Krugman

Interestingly but yesterday there was an interview with the Nobel awarded economist Paul Krugman about the economic cost to the US for the aid given to Ukraine. He made some good points when  he explained the US is $25 trillion economy and  total aid to Ukraine has only been about $25 billion. He said in fact the  total aid  amount is inconsequential to the US and Western countries but that relatively small amount of aid has been enough to stop Russia so far  from defeating Ukraine militarily

His real concern is the global inflation and how the US economy has been too strong and needs to go through a necessary  correction to slow it down but he is not predicting a real US recession because he says its not possible to make those predictions because of all the variables and moving parts around the global and US economy 

 

I had to update something about Krugman, some of my family members mentioned he is ostensibly one of the worst economists to follow because he has been wrong about lots of predictions 

It doesnt mean he is always wrong but its worth considering 

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2020/11/17/is-paul-krugman-the-worlds-wrongest-economist-997142/

 

 

[xzar_monty]

19 hours ago, Malcador said:

Strange to turn him back, why give up free bodies.

Not strange at all. An inexperienced person in a completely strange environment is not only a nuisance but can be a serious risk. "Environment" here means both war and wintry Finland as opposed to anything in England.

[xzar_monty]

10 hours ago, Gorth said:

The Russian state also offers economic incentive to people to have more babies, so you never know, they may be in it for the long war... (only serious about the first part in case there was any doubt)

The incentives to make people have more babies apparently aren't working all that well, so Putin wants to increase Russia's population via more drastic measures. This is not a joke, by the way. And no, of course not, increasing the population is not the only reason for the war. But Russia as a major power requires a large population, and Putin is worried that it's turning towards dwindle.
 

Btw, a military specialist in northern Europe pointed out that Russia is involved in twofold ethnic cleansing: 1) killing Ukrainians in Ukraine, with the intention of destroying Ukrainian culture, and 2) sending its own ethnic minorities to kill Ukrainians.

Edited August 25, 2022 by xzar_monty

[Malcador]

4 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

Not strange at all. An inexperienced person in a completely strange environment is not only a nuisance but can be a serious risk. "Environment" here means both war and wintry Finland as opposed to anything in England.

Always need bodies for rear echelon activities, as well. Skimming Wikipedia he did agree he would have died on front line, though.

12 hours ago, Gorth said:

Considering how dirt cheap Russian tanks are to manufacture, I wouldn't be surprised if the handful of expensive high tech missiles (they had a few, emphasis on few) fired at the beginning of the war makes up most of the war expenditure. The Russian state also offers economic incentive to people to have more babies, so you never know, they may be in it for the long war... (only serious about the first part in case there was any doubt)

Well Kalibrs and Iskanders aren't cheap, and they've fired a lot of those.  Their 152mm stockpiles must be immense, read accounts in east of seemingly endless barrages, assuming it's not fear mongering for free weaponry.

[xzar_monty]

9 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Always need bodies for rear echelon activities, as well. Skimming Wikipedia he did agree he would have died on front line, though.

True, but not just any bodies. I suppose their bodies were deemed too much of a hassle, not worth bothering with. Lee descbrices himself and "a few other recent schoolboys" as "callow", which is an indication of their lack of usefulness, and says they were sent home after a fortnight. He also writes, "It was clear that the tiny Finnish army was doing rather well against the Russian colossus, without our help", which is more or less true, as Lee was back home by Christmas 1939 and all he saw was from before that time.

[Chilloutman]

haha, use google translate:

 

https://www.kp.ru/daily/27434.5/4635684/