The All Things Political Topic - A politician needs the ability to foretell what is going to happen tomorrow, next week, next month, and next year. And to have the ability afterwards to explain why it didn’t happen

[Zoraptor]

At least he still has Dorries and Truss.

[Gorth]

@BruceVC you are needed!

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-62001426

Across most of the surveyed countries, more than half of respondents, on average, agree with the statement that the economy is weak under a democratic system.

In every country surveyed, more than half also say they either agree or strongly agree that they are more concerned about the effectiveness of their government's policies, than they are about the type of government.

 

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People are fed up with democracy

[BruceVC]

42 minutes ago, Gorth said:

@BruceVC you are needed!

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-62001426

Across most of the surveyed countries, more than half of respondents, on average, agree with the statement that the economy is weak under a democratic system.

In every country surveyed, more than half also say they either agree or strongly agree that they are more concerned about the effectiveness of their government's policies, than they are about the type of government.

 

--

People are fed up with democracy

Great link and Im not surprised with some of the views

For citizens in any country in the world to appreciate what a real Constitutional Democracy brings its needs to be realized and implemented correctly or it just becomes a word that is meaningless. And if implemented correctly you often do see meaningful and substantive economic transformation but it requires the correct government policies

None of the countries that went through the Arab Spring can be considered nowadays proper Democracies, as the article mentions they hybrids 

And ironically the most stable and prosperous countries in the ME are not Democracies and have never claimed to be like most of the Gulf States but thats fine because if the majority of citizens are  happy then we should leave them alone. Like China, Im sure most Chinese citizens, with exceptions like the Uyghurs Muslims,  are more or less happy with the CCP when they told what to think?

And then also its very hard to implement a proper Democracy, particularly around human rights,   in any country under Sharia law but that doesn't mean  most citizens in countries under Sharia law  aren't happy if you consider the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Kuwait 

But in summary, the article raises valid concerns but they conflating Democracy with economic transformation. These are separate objectives but obviously inextricably connected because you wont see effective economic policies without an effective government 

[Sarex]

Not much news regarding this it seems.

 

[Malcador]

More resignations from BoJo's cabinet.  Guess Zelenskyy's going to get the SAS.

[majestic]

20 hours ago, BruceVC said:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/u-k-finance-minister-and-health-secretary-both-resign-11657042088

Now its not looking good for Johnson. Both the finance and health minister have resigned and they are both effective and prominent members of his cabinet. I dont think he can weather this storm?

 

Quote

The public rightly expect government to be conducted properly, competently and seriously.

Well, at least the part that did not elect Trump's appendix. Not so sure about the other ones...

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, majestic said:

 

Well, at least the part that did not elect Trump's appendix. Not so sure about the other ones...

Eh, I think there's a difference in expecting and wanting.

[majestic]

16 minutes ago, KP wants Blue Velvet said:

Eh, I think there's a difference in expecting and wanting.

I'm not entirely sure I follow. If I vote for a clown, I can neither expect nor want government to be conducted seriously and properly, let alone competently, and that's not even my bias against conservatives speaking because that seems to make no difference in the UK's case as they're blessed with suck either way. Bush Junior's suppository was from Labour, after all.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

13 minutes ago, majestic said:

I'm not entirely sure I follow. If I vote for a clown, I can neither expect nor want government to be conducted seriously and properly, let alone competently, and that's not even my bias against conservatives speaking because that seems to make no difference in the UK's case as they're blessed with suck either way. Bush Junior's suppository was from Labour, after all.

I'm saying that those who didn't vote for BoJo aren't expecting a competent government, they expect the Tories (who are most likely to win) to be absolute ****-ups.

[majestic]

1 hour ago, KP wants Blue Velvet said:

I'm saying that those who didn't vote for BoJo aren't expecting a competent government, they expect the Tories (who are most likely to win) to be absolute ****-ups.

Ah, I see, yes, that would indeed be the case. Makes the tweet even more hilarious.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

55 minutes ago, majestic said:

Ah, I see, yes, that would indeed be the case. Makes the tweet even more hilarious.

During the early days of the rona when the UK was on lockdown, Sunak was the face of "Eat Out To Help Out" (lmao) which was giving people 50% off on in-person meals from restaurants in August 2020. This double entendre plan caused a spike in rona infections that triggered another batch of lockdowns. So yeah, this is pure cope from Sunak. If you hang out at the circuis you can't expect people to not think you're a clown.

[Darkpriest]

12 hours ago, Sarex said:

Not much news regarding this it seems.

 

Interesting approach, in times of real possibility of food shortages, a country decides to destroy their own food production... 

[Zoraptor]

1 hour ago, KP wants Blue Velvet said:

If you hang out at the circuis you can't expect people to not think you're a clown.

Boris did do pretty well pretending to be a clown for years, though. Kind of funny that the last straw for all those principled tories- is this the most oxymoronic oxymoron, I think it may be- is a whip appointment, something that directly effected them.

No accident that it's all the people with leadership ambitions going now though of course, they've just obviously decided that Johnson is Done and they want to set up for a leadership bid- or for the sensible ones, given the mess Johnson has made and the economic situation, try and get a rival to go for the leadership.

I have to admit I'm hoping for PM Michael Gove or Jacob Rees-Mogg for the lolz, especially the latter.

[Zoraptor]

19 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

Interesting approach, in times of real possibility of food shortages, a country decides to destroy their own food production... 

Euro farming is horrendously inefficient though, mostly due to subsidies. It's arguably unsustainable even without climate change/ pollution considerations- and would be the main reason why Ukraine will not get into the EU any time soon; their agricultural sector would come close to literally bankrupting the CAP as it stands.

Haber process (~making ammonia for fertilisers) is one of the least known but most important chemical reactions in the world, but it's a gross energy user, and the alternatives for fertiliser aren't great- see Nauru getting shafted by Australia as its islands were reduced to a moonscape. Overuse of fertiliser is incredibly wasteful, as a lot of it just washes straight away into waterways and the like, ruining them (--> algal blooms, suffocated lakes, choked streams etc).

Really though, the whole EU agricultural policy needs to be revised if they're at all interested in actually tackling climate change instead of just talking about it and it has to be done even with the knowledge that it will mean the end for a lot of farmers. Instead we get them constantly yelling about methane which isn't even an accumulator, just because that measure ignores everything else that contributes which EU agriculture is inefficient at. Funniest thing a few years ago was the spate of studies done in euroland to try and make New Zealand and Australian imports look bad which ended up showing the reverse- we were a lot better environmentally. That's what happens when a lot of your winter feed is grown on ex rainforest land in Brazil and has to be shipped in for a decent part of the year; that massively outweighs a one off trip even if that trip is longer and the cargo is frozen.

[BruceVC]

9 hours ago, majestic said:

Ah, I see, yes, that would indeed be the case. Makes the tweet even more hilarious.

The misunderstanding you guys are making with Johnsons leadership is you are judging him on the theater and media outrage  like Partygate  and ignoring how effective he was on the real issues like BREXIT and the  overall UK response to the virus. He was also well respected internationally 

But I do now sadly concede its time for him to step down because he has clearly lost support within his own party

Politics is a fickle mistress, I wouldnt want to be a politician  

 

[HoonDing]

All Johnson will be remembered for, is tackling a Japanese school boy

oh, and the break-up of the UK

[Raithe]

 

[BruceVC]

57 minutes ago, HoonDing said:

All Johnson will be remembered for, is tackling a Japanese school boy

oh, and the break-up of the UK

Thank you for demonstrating my point. Many people, including yourself, dont understand the reality of the UK and its political decisions. Johnson didnt break-up the UK, he delivered on the mandate of the BREXIT referendum. Thats what political parties are suppose to do, deliver on what they say they will do when the majority of citizens have  voted 

Hoonding dont allow yourself to be fooled and manipulated by misinformation and some media hyperbole. Always ask me if you not sure 

 

 

 

[BruceVC]

6 minutes ago, Raithe said:

 

Do you know of any time in the UK where so many people have resigned in  protest from any political party, its unprecedented ?

[Gorth]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

The misunderstanding you guys are making with Johnsons leadership is you are judging him on the theater and media outrage  like Partygate  and ignoring how effective he was on the real issues like BREXIT

Sure, if you define "effective" as lying through his teeth and initiating legislation to break any and all written agreements with the EU around the Northern Ireland Protocol after the fact. If I don't bother at all, at least trying to keep my agreements, I don't call myself "effective", just "opportunistic" (and maybe a few less savory words, like weasel, backstabber, Judas, betrayer, scoundrel etc. which would fit Boris)

[Zoraptor]

1 hour ago, HoonDing said:

All Johnson will be remembered for, is tackling a Japanese school boy

oh, and the break-up of the UK

There's getting stuck on a zipline too, let's not forget that.

[Gorth]

Game over…

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-62072419
 

edit: It's a rolling ticker tape kind of news page... headlines keeps getting added or pushed out. Cut and pasting a few paragraph titles (Boris resigned as conservative leader, but wants to hang on to the PM perks until Autumn as "caretaker PM"):

 

The moment news of Johnson's planned resignation broke

Pound trading marginally higher

Palace declines to say if Queen has spoken to PM this morning

PM should apologise to Queen, says former minister

Campaign to replace Johnson has already begun

Evict Johnson today or he'll cause carnage, Cummings warns

Johnson has appointed full replacement cabinet

Raab should become caretaker PM, 1922 Committee vice-chair says

 

 

[BruceVC]

3 hours ago, Gorth said:

Sure, if you define "effective" as lying through his teeth and initiating legislation to break any and all written agreements with the EU around the Northern Ireland Protocol after the fact. If I don't bother at all, at least trying to keep my agreements, I don't call myself "effective", just "opportunistic" (and maybe a few less savory words, like weasel, backstabber, Judas, betrayer, scoundrel etc. which would fit Boris)

Gorthfuscious I think you need to be honest, it doesnt sound like you respect or like Johnson?

[Gorth]

31 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Gorthfuscious I think you need to be honest, it doesnt sound like you respect or like Johnson?

Why would you think that?

[BruceVC]

Very magnanimous resignation speech from Johnson, Trump can learn a lot from him and accepting when its over or you lost