The All Things Political Topic - Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

[Malcador]

Politics in Canada truly is pretty boring, take for example this attempt at a hit piece -https://globalnews.ca/news/8845828/del-duca-riding-association-50k-high-end-restaurants/

$50,000 on restaurants!  Over 6 years.

[Pidesco]

https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1819576527

[Malcador]

Teachers need to wear body armor.  And the kids too, the added weight will help them build muscle!

 

 

[BruceVC]

7 hours ago, Malcador said:

Teachers need to wear body armor.  And the kids too, the added weight will help them build muscle!

 

 

And it will help with the  obesity crisis  that is common in so many US public sector schools 

[Gorth]

8 hours ago, Pidesco said:

https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1819576527

It might not be fixable on a Federal level, but maybe some day, some state or community might decide it needs fixing. No, guns are not the main problem (even if they exacerbate the problem significantly), society is the problem and needs changing.

Edit: You know, like somebody starts making a checklist of things to fix...

- Poverty/Wealth inequality

-Racism/Unfairness

-Hopelessness/Despair

-Mental health issues being taboo/Macho culture/Socially dysfunctional environments

-Lack of education (not talking about reading, writing, math etc., but life lessons and wisdom being passed on and disseminated)
-...

-...

(add to list)

[BruceVC]

46 minutes ago, Gorth said:

It might not be fixable on a Federal level, but maybe some day, some state or community might decide it needs fixing. No, guns are not the main problem (even if they exacerbate the problem significantly), society is the problem and needs changing.

Edit: You know, like somebody starts making a checklist of things to fix...

- Poverty/Wealth inequality

-Racism/Unfairness

-Hopelessness/Despair

-Mental health issues being taboo/Macho culture/Socially dysfunctional environments

-Lack of education (not talking about reading, writing, math etc., but life lessons and wisdom being passed on and disseminated)
-...

-...

(add to list)

Great list, I want to add some of my own points that would make our societies better

• failed or dictatorial governments that cause mass illegal and legal immigration and no one really calls out these governments or tries to resolve the failed governments
• citizens living in countries who attribute their definition of inequality with  historical injustice and not taking personal  responsibility for their lives but will always find time to  participate in protests and make demands 
• liberals and the left implementing well meaning social policies, like social grants, that never seem to fix most  problems we all grapple with like rising crime and meaningfully changing citizens lived experience 
• entitlement and this view that " government needs to fix all our problems"  through socialism and other similar radical left views 

 

[Gorth]

11 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

• citizens living in countries who attribute their definition of inequality with  historical injustice and not taking personal  responsibility for their lives but will always find time to  participate in protests and make demands 

Yeah, like the January 6th insurrection...

 

Otherwise I fail to see how your points would have helped prevent 14 kids and a teacher from being murdered in Texas

 

[BruceVC]

1 minute ago, Gorth said:

Yeah, like the January 6th insurrection...

 

Otherwise I fail to see how your points would have helped prevent 14 kids and a teacher from being murdered in Texas

 

Oh sorry, I was talking about  the broader point of how to make our societies better 

[Gorth]

8 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Oh sorry, I was talking about  the broader point of how to make our societies better 

25 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

• citizens living in countries who attribute their definition of inequality with  historical injustice and not taking personal  responsibility for their lives but will always find time to  participate in protests and make demands 

 

You may or may not notice a pattern in my list, they're items that contribute to creating a society living in fear. You could ask yourself, who benefits from a society living in fear and why does it benefit them? Some obscure mastermind worthy of conspiracy theories, is it small groups or individuals (or even an individual) possessed by a hunger for power, encouraging collective fear? I'm sure it's not just Murdoch getting an erection out of stirring up violence and a crackdown on progress...

[BruceVC]

As far as the reason for mass shootings  and gun violence that occur in the US their are several reasons for this that include 

• attention seeking and angry people : like Klebold and Harris in Columbine 
• mentally unstable people  : Sandy Hook
• right-wing\neo-nazi extremism
• left-wing extremism
• gang related and cartel related
• militia and anti-Federal groups: like Timothy McVeigh and Oklahoma City bombing
• Islamic Extremism
• Unknown reasons for mass shootings : rare but it happens like the 2017 Las Vegas shooting, motives still unknown

So the hard question to all these shootings is what have they all got it common?

 

[BruceVC]

6 minutes ago, Gorth said:

 

You may or may not notice a pattern in my list, they're items that contribute to creating a society living in fear. You could ask yourself, who benefits from a society living in fear and why does it benefit them? Some obscure mastermind worthy of conspiracy theories, is it small groups or individuals (or even an individual) possessed by a hunger for power, encouraging collective fear? I'm sure it's not just Murdoch getting an erection out of stirring up violence and a crackdown on progress...

 

I dont know who would benefit because I dont believe living in fear is a good thing. I suppose a government that gets elected because it gets votes to " deal with problem xxx"

For example in SA we have several political parties and civic organizations that now call for a real referendum on the death penalty because of the violent nature of our crimes and murder rate

I support the death penalty now because I do believe it can be a deterrent but this is not due to fearmongering...we face a crisis with our high crime rate 

[Gorth]

9 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

So the hard question to all these shootings is what have they all got it common?

They all have a few things in common. Feeling ostracized from society and feeling like they have nothing to lose, thinking 5 minutes of infamy is better than die unnoticed.

 

Edit: Hate (caused by living in constant fear if you want)

[BruceVC]

Just now, Gorth said:

They all have a few things in common. Feeling ostracized from society and feeling like they have nothing to lose, thinking 5 minutes of infamy is better than die unnoticed.

Yes thats a common thread, I think its more complicated than that if you think of anti-Federal groups and gang\cartel violence? So in other words people dont want to die all the time like Timothy McVeigh ..they genuinely  have an " enemy " they believe is destroying society and what they doing is somehow acceptable?

[Chairchucker]

Guns. They've got guns in common.

 

Yes, shootings are just one symptom of a bunch of problems in USA's society, but it would be much more difficult to express those problems in a violent killing spree if access to guns was more tightly controlled.

 

Just give it a try, at this point the USA has tried nothing and they're out of ideas.

[Gorth]

3 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Yes thats a common thread, I think its more complicated than that if you think of anti-Federal groups and gang\cartel violence? So in other words people dont want to die all the time like Timothy McVeigh ..they genuinely  have an " enemy " they believe is destroying society and what they doing is somehow acceptable?

I'll just point you towards my edit in the post you quoted. It all comes back to living in fear. Fear of being feeling inferior, fear of feeling inadequate, fear of abandonment, fear of the future, fear of being left behind, etc. It's in my experience always what it boils down to when people "lose it". Society dictates some norms and expectations and lots of people struggle to meet those expectations. I know from friends that fear of getting sick is a real thing, because the US healthcare is a "for profit" system, so things we consider trivial can be life changing (in a devastating way). Constant fear creates a disproportionate number of mental health issues (which doesn't get addressed adequately whether individually or collectively). An estimated 1 in 5 Americans live with mental health issues. Wanna bet, only a fraction of those gets treated?

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/mental-illness

 

[BruceVC]

1 minute ago, Chairchucker said:

Guns. They've got guns in common.

 

Yes, shootings are just one symptom of a bunch of problems in USA's society, but it would be much more difficult to express those problems in a violent killing spree if access to guns was more tightly controlled.

 

Just give it a try, at this point the USA has tried nothing and they're out of ideas.

Yes gun control and ease of availability of guns seems the common thread

But now it gets complicated, its easy to say " look at what the UK and Oz did after the Tasmanian and Dunblane  mass shootings. If the US did what those governments did that would reduce gun violence " and its seems logical except for several differences that include

• You didnt have the same level of gun violence that exists in countries like SA or the USA in  Oz or the UK before they " banned " guns 
• You cant ban guns when their is a real, established and thriving black market for guns because it wont stop criminals buying guns
• In the US you have active gun smuggling that right-wing and cartel\gang groups can always access even if guns are " banned "

And finally gun ownership in the US is Constitutional and cultural in some states so any attempt to implement gun control is seen by many as part of the US culture wars and immediately rejected by many US citizens for both reasonable and irrational reasons 

 

[BruceVC]

8 minutes ago, Gorth said:

I'll just point you towards my edit in the post you quoted. It all comes back to living in fear. Fear of being feeling inferior, fear of feeling inadequate, fear of abandonment, fear of the future, fear of being left behind, etc. It's in my experience always what it boils down to when people "lose it". Society dictates some norms and expectations and lots of people struggle to meet those expectations. I know from friends that fear of getting sick is a real thing, because the US healthcare is a "for profit" system, so things we consider trivial can be life changing (in a devastating way). Constant fear creates a disproportionate number of mental health issues (which doesn't get addressed adequately whether individually or collectively). An estimated 1 in 5 Americans live with mental health issues. Wanna bet, only a fraction of those gets treated?

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/mental-illness

 

You raise some good points here and they valid talking points and I believe they do contribute towards the high levels of gun violence and mass shootings we witness in the US 

[Chairchucker]

8 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Yes gun control and ease of availability of guns seems the common thread

But now it gets complicated, its easy to say " look at what the UK and Oz did after the Tasmanian and Dunblane  mass shootings. If the US did what those governments did that would reduce gun violence " and its seems logical except for several differences that include

• You didnt have the same level of gun violence that exists in countries like SA or the USA in  Oz or the UK before they " banned " guns 
• You cant ban guns when their is a real, established and thriving black market for guns because it wont stop criminals buying guns
• In the US you have active gun smuggling that right-wing and cartel\gang groups can always access even if guns are " banned "

And finally gun ownership in the US is Constitutional and cultural in some states so any attempt to implement gun control is seen by many as part of the US culture wars and immediately rejected by many US citizens for both reasonable and irrational reasons 

 

It's impossible to know for sure that it can't work because they've never tried it.

You might not be able to stop 100% of people getting guns, but it's laughable to suggest that every single one of the teenagers who committed a mass shooting with a gun bought by their mother or their father or aunt or uncle or whatever would definitely have the black market contacts to get a gun.

Too many of the arguments against gun control boil down to 'it's not possible to 100% guarantee no one gets murdered anymore so we can't try to take any action', and that's absolute garbage. Road safety laws don't completely eliminate road fatalities, but we don't just throw our hands up and say 'rules don't work, drive how you want!'

[BruceVC]

43 minutes ago, Chairchucker said:

It's impossible to know for sure that it can't work because they've never tried it.

You might not be able to stop 100% of people getting guns, but it's laughable to suggest that every single one of the teenagers who committed a mass shooting with a gun bought by their mother or their father or aunt or uncle or whatever would definitely have the black market contacts to get a gun.

Too many of the arguments against gun control boil down to 'it's not possible to 100% guarantee no one gets murdered anymore so we can't try to take any action', and that's absolute garbage. Road safety laws don't completely eliminate road fatalities, but we don't just throw our hands up and say 'rules don't work, drive how you want!'

What  would you say to a US ex-marine who has served his country in conflicts like Iraq and Afghanistan and is a responsible gun owner but has lots of guns 

Should he agree to gun control even though its a small percentage of gun owners who commit mass shootings and or other crimes?

This is where it gets complicated 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by BruceVC

[Guard Dog]

12 hours ago, Pidesco said:

https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1819576527

 

[Chairchucker]

58 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

What  would you say to a US ex-marine who has served his country in conflicts like Iraq and Afghanistan and is a responsible gun owner but has lots of guns 

Should he agree to gun control even though its a small percentage of gun owners who commit mass shootings and or other crimes?

This is where it gets complicated 

 

 

Yes. We should all accept minor inconveniences to our own ability to own a largely unnecessary tool of death if it might mean people's children don't die. It is not remotely complicated, anyone who thinks their rights to unrestricted access to unlimited firearms is too important to try to take action against gun violence is a garbage human being.

[Gorth]

Does the second amendment say anything about the right to possess ammunition?

 

[BruceVC]

48 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

 

Brilliant video and it makes such excellent points. The reality is their is no such thing as an easy solution

GD lets use you as example, you are not an extremist in any regard. What are your reasons to object to gun control or your guns being banned by the Federal government ?

 

[BruceVC]

20 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Does the second amendment say anything about the right to possess ammunition?

 

Thats clever, I have never thought about that approach 

[Guard Dog]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

Brilliant video and it makes such excellent points. The reality is their is no such thing as an easy solution

GD lets use you as example, you are not an extremist in any regard. What are your reasons to object to gun control or your guns being banned by the Federal government ?

 

To tell you the truth Bruce I don't really care anymore. If such a law were ever to pass I wouldn't obey it. If the knock on the door ever comes I will use them before handing them over. And all of that is just me writing a check I know I will never have to cash. It will never happen. Even though I would be 100% willing to die in a blaze of glory I can say that knowing it will never happen. I'm much more likely to die falling off a horse. 

Even if gun bans ever did happen they would not be broad in scope. It will be something like "assault weapon" (whatever the hell that means) bans. Not going to affect anything I own. So it's a non issue. I only have two with me right now anyway. One is my carry pistol which I never carry because my CC permit does not travel in any state I'm going to be in. The other is my muzzle loader Diablo scattergun with two .72 oval slugs loaded. And that is just for home defense. G has a .20 ga pump as well. 

I used to think political s--t was so important but I just don't care much about it anymore.