Ukraine Conflict - Der Weg zurück

[BruceVC]

2 minutes ago, ComradeYellow said:

Hey I'm not crazy about the invasion either (Putin's motives are 50% fishy),  I do like to see NATO and Nazi's destroyed and discredited, but Russia wouldn't do this if it didn't have some kind of guarantee from you know who

 

*Gulp*

And Nazi presence in Ukraine is worse  than I thought, bunch of savages that do need to be dealt with.

https://greekcitytimes.com/2022/03/01/greek-in-mariupol-fascist-ukrainian/

Can you answer an important question,  Zelenskyy is Jewish and he won  the election in 2019 overwhelmingly 

Why would Neo-Nazis vote for a Jew? Remember they hate people like gypsies and Jews 

 

[rjshae]

33 minutes ago, majestic said:

Heh, this is an argument that we've had in the past, only in reverse? I think all arguments that Putin is acting rationally went out of the window when the Russian troops actually crossed the border last week.

I think he is acting rationally, from his own perspective. But people in power tend to lose their empathy, and his is all but gone. He doesn't really care that he is pulverizing their former "crown jewel" and killing innocents.

[Malcador]

3 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Can you answer an important question,  Zelenskyy is Jewish and he won  the election in 2019 overwhelmingly 

Why would Neo-Nazis vote for a Jew? Remember they hate people like gypsies and Jews 

 

Well, given the group you are talking about would be Slavs and Neo-Nazis, it's a lost cause trying to figure out their "thought" processes.

[Zoraptor]

On the question of the EU admitting Ukraine: would the EU admit Sri Lanka? Assume it had been towed to the Med, if you like, and its population had got a lot whiter. Population can stay the same, even though it's half of Ukraine's. What's that you say, there'd be snowballs in hell before Sri Lanka got in? Because that's the closest economic equivalent to Ukraine, and a pretty close political one too. One of the more amusing things has been seeing people mocking Belarus for its economy: per person it's ~40% larger than Ukraine's. It's the poorest country in Europe and has been unbelievably badly run for 30 years. Accession to EU is a pipe dream on their side; and blatant virtue signalling on the other.

On grain prices, last time they spiked so high we got a load of unintended consequences: the Arab Spring for one. Oh no, some Euroweenie is going to have to forgo buying Elex 2 on release due to energy prices (mate, just give something else up, plenty you can live without before Elex); meanwhile people elsewhere are going to starve. Which leads nicely onto:

1 hour ago, HoonDing said:

And throughout this posturing about Ukraine the west is still happily bombing people in Somalia, Libya, Mali and Yemen.

Yes, but they're brown, and understand that violence is just a part of life. Plus they live on the west's resources, not Russia's.

One of the less edifying parts of the coverage is watching all the reporters trying to find ways to say how odd and disturbing it is to see white people getting bombed instead of brown people, without sounding racist. If you're having to go out of your way to try and not be racist via semantics there's a good chance that you actually are racist, guys.

40 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

US and allies agree to release 60 million barrels of oil from their reserves as Russian invasion of Ukraine causes price spike - CNNPolitics    

That's... a day's supply? Maybe sanctioning three of the biggest oil producers in the world simultaneously isn't such a good idea, and dealing with them one at a time would have been better?

Better put that leverage to work on the Gulf to pump more gas (already done, and they won't, couldn't even get the UAE to vote against Russia at the UN; and after all those F-35s and Patriots too).

[Gfted1]

5 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

That's... a day's supply?

For the whole world? No not even one day: Oil Consumption by Country 2022 (worldpopulationreview.com)

It is estimated that the world consumes over 97 million barrels of oil per day. The world’s proven reserves are equivalent to about 46.6 times its annual consumption levels, meaning that the Earth has about 47 years of oil left at the current consumption levels.

[Elerond]

57 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Russia can reverse its impending economic collapse, it wont take decades. I would say a friendly Russia can get its economy back in 4-6 years 

Because some of the sanctions that have hurt it the hardest can literally be reversed overnight like the US sanctions on the $ on the Russian central bank. If  the US just  ends that then Russia can access most of its $650 Billion sovereign fund which is mostly in $

Sanctions can be reserved on paper easily but not their impact. Amount of foreign capital that has left and will leave from the Russia is massive. Lost of trust towards banks in Russia will hinder recovery efforts. I don't see that issues with air traffic will recover soon after sanctions have lifted. 

Returning of now closed factories, warehouses etc. will take long time. So Russia needs quite good economic recovery to return to level before war let alone lost growth during time the sanctions are on.

Also these sanctions will hurt EU, UK and USA too and it isn't like in past two years global pandemic has caused havoc in economy which will have long lasting effects in global trade.

[Zoraptor]

16 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

For the whole world? No not even one day: Oil Consumption by Country 2022 (worldpopulationreview.com)

Yeah, or a bit less than 2 days for the EU/ US alone. Not completely insignificant, but only ~0.5% of annual supply even if limited to the west alone.

[Gfted1]

But I think the point of releasing some of the oil reserves isnt meant to completely replace the sanctioned oil, but rather to control price spikes?

Who knows, maybe this will user in a return of great prosperity for our out of work shale oil pumps.

[Malcador]

1 hour ago, HoonDing said:

And throughout this posturing about Ukraine the west is still happily bombing people in Somalia, Libya, Mali and Yemen.

 

 

[bugarup]

Whiffs of whataboutism are a bit in odds with your usual analytical approach, Zooraptor. Also, I think the situation when countries care much more about what happens right next to their border than what's going on across a continent and a half can be explained in different terms than "racism", which nowadays gets applied so broadly it starts to approach generic and therefore weightless Internet insult territory. 

[BruceVC]

52 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

On the question of the EU admitting Ukraine: would the EU admit Sri Lanka? Assume it had been towed to the Med, if you like, and its population had got a lot whiter. Population can stay the same, even though it's half of Ukraine's. What's that you say, there'd be snowballs in hell before Sri Lanka got in? Because that's the closest economic equivalent to Ukraine, and a pretty close political one too. One of the more amusing things has been seeing people mocking Belarus for its economy: per person it's ~40% larger than Ukraine's. It's the poorest country in Europe and has been unbelievably badly run for 30 years. Accession to EU is a pipe dream on their side; and blatant virtue signalling on the other.

On grain prices, last time they spiked so high we got a load of unintended consequences: the Arab Spring for one. Oh no, some Euroweenie is going to have to forgo buying Elex 2 on release due to energy prices (mate, just give something else up, plenty you can live without before Elex); meanwhile people elsewhere are going to starve. Which leads nicely onto:

Yes, but they're brown, and understand that violence is just a part of life. Plus they live on the west's resources, not Russia's.

One of the less edifying parts of the coverage is watching all the reporters trying to find ways to say how odd and disturbing it is to see white people getting bombed instead of brown people, without sounding racist. If you're having to go out of your way to try and not be racist via semantics there's a good chance that you actually are racist, guys.

That's... a day's supply? Maybe sanctioning three of the biggest oil producers in the world simultaneously isn't such a good idea, and dealing with them one at a time would have been better?

Better put that leverage to work on the Gulf to pump more gas (already done, and they won't, couldn't even get the UAE to vote against Russia at the UN; and after all those F-35s and Patriots too).

Look I understand you bitter but its not our fault that Putin miscalculated and now the reality of who he really is has been revealed to all. Yes Zora,   Putin is liar and a warmonger and he has destroyed his legacy and Russia's economy  and most of us will continue to support Ukraine and nothing is going to change that even once Russia "wins " it victory with this invasion 

And playing the race card I would have thought is below you but nice try 

[BruceVC]

45 minutes ago, Elerond said:

Sanctions can be reserved on paper easily but not their impact. Amount of foreign capital that has left and will leave from the Russia is massive. Lost of trust towards banks in Russia will hinder recovery efforts. I don't see that issues with air traffic will recover soon after sanctions have lifted. 

Returning of now closed factories, warehouses etc. will take long time. So Russia needs quite good economic recovery to return to level before war let alone lost growth during time the sanctions are on.

Also these sanctions will hurt EU, UK and USA too and it isn't like in past two years global pandemic has caused havoc in economy which will have long lasting effects in global trade.

Yes, sanctions will hurt the world because of the disruption of commodities  from both Russia and Ukraine. But its a price we have to accept because its either that or the West must let Putin dictate how the world works and thats much worse than the temporary pain from necessary sanctions

Democracy cannot be dictated to by autocracy  

[Sarex]

31 minutes ago, Malcador said:

And when those particular bombs didn't do anything, then the good old American negotiation kicked in, "retreat or we will bomb you back to the stone age". They would have done it too.

[ComradeYellow]

Sounds about right, considering their behavior over this, even worse than the U.S.  Liberals/(Social) Democrats are showing their fascistic side when are Conservatives/Republicans gonna show their Communistic side?

@BruceVC and @Malcador.  Yes, the majority of Ukrainians are decent people who elected a Jew who is anti-War but once he got in there he started firing up the far right of his militias against the asiatic slavic hordes of Russia and now he is tripling down on the rhetoric handing out weapons and ammo to criminals in a last ditch effort.  It doesn't matter to Nazi's if it's a Jew or not, they have this weird ultra hatred towards Russians and Communists the supercedes everything else.

[BruceVC]

38 minutes ago, bugarup said:

Whiffs of whataboutism are a bit in odds with your usual analytical approach, Zooraptor. Also, I think the situation when countries care much more about what happens right next to their border than what's going on across a continent and a half can be explained in different terms than "racism", which nowadays gets applied so broadly it starts to approach generic and therefore weightless Internet insult territory. 

Dont take him seriously, Zora is just repeating some exaggerated false  narrative that has nothing to do with  most peoples concern about this invasion 

Their were maybe 3 reporters who made stupid comments like " I cant handle seeing white people with blue eyes killing each other " .....WFT ?? Thats one of the dumbest  things I have ever heard of  and its  historically inaccurate. We have been killing  each other for the last 2000 years and only just stopped after WW2 

I have watched literally dozens of journalists covering this invasion and no one has said anything even remotely like that because this is not about that. The reaction is about Putin and how he has  gone too far and thats what this is about...its not about " white people getting bombed instead of brown people " 

Edited March 1, 2022 by BruceVC

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

31 minutes ago, bugarup said:

Whiffs of whataboutism are a bit in odds with your usual analytical approach, Zooraptor. Also, I think the situation when countries care much more about what happens right next to their border than what's going on across a continent and a half can be explained in different terms than "racism", which nowadays gets applied so broadly it starts to approach generic and therefore weightless Internet insult territory. 

A lot of these people are from places are about as far away from Somalia as they are Ukraine though. When guys start expressing shock about war happening to "civilized countries", it's hard to take as anything good.

[Chilloutman]

6 minutes ago, ComradeYellow said:

  It doesn't matter to Nazi's eastern European if it's a Jew or not, they have this weird ultra hatred towards Russians and Communists the supercedes everything else.

 

I fixed it there for you

[Malcador]

6 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

We have been killing  each other for the last 2000 years and only just stopped after WW2 

Speaking of historically inaccurate....

[BruceVC]

1 minute ago, Malcador said:

Speaking of historically inaccurate....

Really, when was the last war between Europeans ?

[Chilloutman]

never heard of Yugoslavia?

[Malcador]

2 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Really, when was the last war between Europeans ?

Yugoslavia, Kosovo, Georgia, Donbass, Chechnya, Dagestan.

The statement is just strange to say in the first place, as if the millions of dead Asians and Africans are just something to shrug at as part and parcel of reality.

[Chilloutman]

well I would not call Chechnya or Dagestan 'European'...

[Malcador]

Just now, Chilloutman said:

well I would not call Chechnya or Dagestan 'European'...

Fair enough, was just thinking of conflicts involving European nations.

[Elerond]

3 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Really, when was the last war between Europeans ?

There was ongoing civil war in Ukraine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe

 

[Chilloutman]

and don't forget about Ireland