The All Things Political Topic - Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is an absurd one

[BruceVC]

7 hours ago, rjshae said:

During conflicts certain uncomfortable topics may get set aside or minimized as they can be used for disinformation purposes by an adversary. The Russians have already been exploiting racial divisions in the US to sew further discord.

Again its ironic to see the Russians calling out the US for racism when they legalized bigotry like homophobia and racism is rife and ubiquitous in Russia. The main difference between  current racism in Russia and Western countries  is their are no  BLM activist groups in Russia  and the Russian state controlled media doesn't care 

 

 

 

[213374U]

5 hours ago, BruceVC said:

I am sure it was the UK who were the first who created property rights

Yeah, no. You are sure, and as usual, you are wrong.

Brown people from the Middle East beat the Anglos by about ~2500 years. You may be thinking of the creation of corporations, but even then, it's probably the Dutch who created the first companies in a modern sense rather than the English.

  

4 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

10 minutes ago, Elerond said:

State where head of state is leader of state's official church?

Putin? But I am not sure

Holy ****. You've got to be ****ing trolling.

[BruceVC]

5 minutes ago, 213374U said:

Yeah, no. You are sure, and as usual, you are wrong.

Brown people from the Middle East beat the Anglos by about ~2500 years. You may be thinking of the creation of corporations, but even then, it's probably the Dutch who created the first companies in a modern sense rather than the English.

  

Holy ****. You've got to be ****ing trolling.

No Im not sure, thats why I said " Im not sure " 

Because I dont  pretend to know everything which is why I asked the question 

 

 

[majestic]

1 hour ago, Elerond said:

State where head of state is leader of state's official church?

Vatican, do I win at the quiz?

[Gorth]

58 minutes ago, majestic said:

Vatican, do I win at the quiz?

The Vatican is surprisingly young... (founded 1929). It's predecessor, The Papal State was dissolved in 1870 (founded in 700 something, not that long before Charlamagne ruled the Franks and became best buddies with the Pope)

 

[alanschu]

10 hours ago, Gorth said:

I suppose people call the US a republic because the people are not actually electing their leaders, but their representatives (and the representatives then appoint leaders for the people)? A question better asked of US citizens I guess, they would know better than I.

That is the most generous interpretation, but most of the "republic not a democracy" choose to interpret "Democracy" exclusively as Direct Democracy and when you refer to their Republic as a Representative Democracy (and include quote from the 18th Century federalist papers that also refer to it as a representative democracy) they either just go away or they just cannot grok.

It's funny because they struggle to classify my country since we definitely are not a republic!

[Malcador]

https://www.fldoe.org/newsroom/latest-news/florida-rejects-publishers-attempts-to-indoctrinate-students.stml?fbclid=IwAR3VmsKzNvJawEfuD5t5k315p0An9SLOs7TcBgkokQ9P8Iw31Ka1IPnl6CI

14 (11 percent) are not included on the adopted list because they do not properly align to B.E.S.T. Standards and incorporate prohibited topics or unsolicited strategies, including CRT.

Seems pretty skint on detail, so pretty sure the CRT is just a boogeyman

[BruceVC]

41 minutes ago, Malcador said:

https://www.fldoe.org/newsroom/latest-news/florida-rejects-publishers-attempts-to-indoctrinate-students.stml?fbclid=IwAR3VmsKzNvJawEfuD5t5k315p0An9SLOs7TcBgkokQ9P8Iw31Ka1IPnl6CI

 

 

Seems pretty skint on detail, so pretty sure the CRT is just a boogeyman

I find it hard to believe that CRT is some fantasy as Gromnir keeps on repeating because its not

If you look the link you provided it clearly makes points like

28 (21 percent) are not included on the adopted list because they incorporate prohibited topics or unsolicited strategies, including CRT.

And the point I keep making around this is surly we cant keep on assuming every example you hear about CRT being banned in every state is about something where their is no school curriculum?

In other words you cant ban or prohibit something that doesnt exist in books or subjects? The only thing I find strange is why we cant find an example of CRT for the schools  so we can review it  ourselves

 

[Malcador]

7 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

The only thing I find strange is why we cant find an example of CRT for the schools  so we can review it  ourselves

Well, that is a strong indication it's a fantasy.  First, they teach CRT, then white genocide.

[Amentep]

7 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

I find it hard to believe that CRT is some fantasy as Gromnir keeps on repeating because its not

If you look the link you provided it clearly makes points like

28 (21 percent) are not included on the adopted list because they incorporate prohibited topics or unsolicited strategies, including CRT.

And the point I keep making around this is surly we cant keep on assuming every example you hear about CRT being banned in every state is about something where their is no school curriculum?

In other words you cant ban or prohibit something that doesnt exist in books or subjects? The only thing I find strange is why we cant find an example of CRT for the schools  so we can review it  ourselves

 

• A lot of places are using CRT as a catch-all term rather than how it is intended as a legal topic for university classes.  
• you can very much ban and prohibit things that don't exist in books or subjects.  The point would be to ban 'it' (whatever 'it' is) BEFORE it gets into books or subjects and is encountered by students.

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Malcador said:

Well, that is a strong indication it's a fantasy.  First, they teach CRT, then white genocide.

Yes I agree that Im surprised I cant find a proper example of CRT for schools because we know its a university course so surly it should be easy to find the school curriculum but I have searched for it and I cant definitively find it which makes me question its reality?

And white genocide is definitely hyperbolic in the SA reality , Im not sure if you aware that this false narrative exists in SA and I can state with absolute certainty its  not true  But like all these topics it has some foundation

It comes from  a type of  crime, referred to as " farm killings",  we experience where whole families are murdered  on farms and the murder of whole families is mostly white Afrikaners. But more  black  people  are murdered in SA than white people but demographically black people make up 83% of our population so in any country with a high murder rate you would expect to see this

But back to the farm killings, many white Afrikaner farmers live in fear of their families being killed which you can understand and some of these Afrikaners have suggested its genocide of white people and our government is behind it which is ridiculous. I have read the transcripts of the people caught who commit these heinous crimes and they mostly come across as suffering from something similar to  PTSD and their reasons dont really make sense but they are almost all suffering from sort of cognitive disorder 

So these terrible killings are more acts of rage and it must be heavily condemned but our government is not behind it and black people are not involved in some grand scheme in SA to kill all white people. These farm killings also target maybe 9% of white people because that is  the total number of white farmers compared to all white people who have other  sources of income and live in cities like me 

And to be honest its  frustrating to hear well meaning, and some racist and not well meaning, comments from people outside of SA asking me " what about the white genocide in your country" because the word genocide has a specific meaning and thats not what is going on in SA and it creates an unfair and inaccurate perception of SA. We have more than enough real problems and acts of crime without someone exaggerating this type  of crime 

1 hour ago, Amentep said:

• A lot of places are using CRT as a catch-all term rather than how it is intended as a legal topic for university classes.  
• you can very much ban and prohibit things that don't exist in books or subjects.  The point would be to ban 'it' (whatever 'it' is) BEFORE it gets into books or subjects and is encountered by students.

Okay I would like to believe that but why does the link say several times things like

"28 (21 percent) are not included on the adopted list because they incorporate prohibited topics or unsolicited strategies, including CRT.

So this is occurring not before it gets to books, its already in some textbooks.  In other words it seems to be very specific around an actual topic that is in submitted textbooks according to the link? I know I am repeating what I said to Malc but it still suggests their must be something real to it, I am not sure if I am explaining it properly?

[Amentep]

10 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

"28 (21 percent) are not included on the adopted list because they incorporate prohibited topics or unsolicited strategies, including CRT.

So this is occurring not before it gets to books, its already in some textbooks.  In other words it seems to be very specific around an actual topic that is in submitted textbooks according to the link? I know I am repeating what I said to Malc but it still suggests their must be something real to it, I am not sure if I am explaining it properly?

What I'm saying is that the "CRT" they reference is not CRT, but other items the people object to they're lumping as "CRT", like the 1619 Project.

[BruceVC]

5 minutes ago, Amentep said:

What I'm saying is that the "CRT" they reference is not CRT, but other items the people object to they're lumping as "CRT", like the 1619 Project.

Oh, by using an example  I see what you saying. That makes sense. If you dont mind  me asking how do you know this because I want to mention this to people I know who have similar concerns to me but they are much more paranoid and anxious about it. Because I know these people will ask me " how do I know if I have never seen the curriculum and I dont live in the US ( these are US family friends and work acquaintances and this sometimes comes up as concerns they have  ) 

Because I know about 1619 project and that is different to CRT that gets taught at universities as a type of legal course. 

 

 

[Amentep]

30 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Oh, by using an example  I see what you saying. That makes sense. If you dont mind  me asking how do you know this because I want to mention this to people I know who have similar concerns to me but they are much more paranoid and anxious about it. Because I know these people will ask me " how do I know if I have never seen the curriculum and I dont live in the US ( these are US family friends and work acquaintances and this sometimes comes up as concerns they have  ) 

Because I know about 1619 project and that is different to CRT that gets taught at universities as a type of legal course. 

Step 1: CRT is only taught in a university legal course.

Step 2: The instructional material under review is for K-12.

∎

quod erat demonstrandum

...

...

Oh were you wanting more?  Actually we have no proof that any materials were rejected, much less rejected due to CRT that I can see. As far as I can see on the links from the press release, none of the materials that were rejected were identified, so there can't be any verification of why they were rejected.  You could make an argument that the lack of data could indicate that a government that has been touting CRT as the devil is now showing Floridian's how they are keeping their children safe from the devil.  

Without any data, I'm erring on the side of them finding something objectionable, and that thing they found objectionable they're calling, incorrectly, CRT because CRT has for some groups become a lump category for "that thing liberals are trying to shove down my kids to make them feel sad".

[Gromnir]

is why we gave up on bruce. is no different than blm. bruce is looking for the answer which corresponds with what he wants to believe, so he finds convincing and latches onto any story or headline which confirms his bias. he will keep coming back to crt until he gets the right response or answer. is exact why we don't give him a simplified definition for crt 'cause you know he will twist whatever definition is provided so as to legitimize his own preconceptions.

am guaranteeing this is not happening in hurl's classes, or any other middle school classes... though admitted am not aware o' any law school prof who requires students to stand when responding nowadays, so that part is different. and in spite o' fact we don't know with absolute certainty, we would bet every cent we have that k-5 math classes in florida is not being taught like professor kingsley's example.

is safe to say having students do the bloom taxonomy analysis, apply and evaluate at law school or grad school levels is so not happening at any public primary or secondary school in the US. have mentioned previous how impressed we would be if such were the case. explore banking regulations and fec rules through socratic method as a means o' considering the inertia o' systemic racism in the US is a common lesson o' crt and if hurl were doing legit crt in his classes o' snot-nosed crumb-snatchers we would applaud his edumacational skilz as beyond 1337. 'course the aformentioned fantasy is so not what is included in a 5th grade florida math textbook which perhaps mentions harriet tubman in a rando word problem... or lord only knows what is the actual obstacles florida identified in their textbook review and denial as they refuse to provide examples.

however, none o' this matters, 'cause (and AGAIN, and again and again and again,) at least one boardie will keep coming back to this until he gets the right answer.

HA! Good Fun!

[Guard Dog]

11 hours ago, Gromnir said:

 

however, none o' this matters, 'cause (and AGAIN, and again and again and again,) at least one boardie will keep coming back to this until he gets the right answer.

HA! Good Fun!

You called? 

I kid. I'm with you an Amentep. It is a term that has lost it's actual definition so it can be a boogeyman politicians roll out to scare voters. Case in point:

Florida rejects 54 math books, claiming critical race theory appeared in some

I can't remember where I read this, one one of the Florida newspsper sites. Most stories are paywalled after the first few hours. But apparently the objection is not CRT but rather Social Emotional Learning. Never heard of it? Me neither. Had to go to Wiki on that one. It sounds like the kind of navel gazing stupidity you might associate to common core. But Common Core is another term that has an actual definition that becoming lost in the politcshpere. Heck I'm not even sure what it is. Don't much care either. 

Anyway, the direction I was going with this is why say the mathbooks had CRT and refuse to provide the names and publishers or examples of CRT in the books? Well, there probably isn't any.  If the Miami Herald (I'm pretty sure that is where I read it) is right and it's really an objection to SEL no one is afraid of that. But they ARE conditioned to be afraid of CRT. So there you are.

Just my $.02. 

[rjshae]

^ These days the right can be set off just by the appearance of virtue signalling, so who knows really?

[Malcador]

Probably had a word problem saying "Mohammed can ride at 5 miles per hour..."

[BruceVC]

17 hours ago, Gromnir said:

is why we gave up on bruce. is no different than blm. bruce is looking for the answer which corresponds with what he wants to believe, so he finds convincing and latches onto any story or headline which confirms his bias. he will keep coming back to crt until he gets the right response or answer. is exact why we don't give him a simplified definition for crt 'cause you know he will twist whatever definition is provided so as to legitimize his own preconceptions.

am guaranteeing this is not happening in hurl's classes, or any other middle school classes... though admitted am not aware o' any law school prof who requires students to stand when responding nowadays, so that part is different. and in spite o' fact we don't know with absolute certainty, we would bet every cent we have that k-5 math classes in florida is not being taught like professor kingsley's example.

is safe to say having students do the bloom taxonomy analysis, apply and evaluate at law school or grad school levels is so not happening at any public primary or secondary school in the US. have mentioned previous how impressed we would be if such were the case. explore banking regulations and fec rules through socratic method as a means o' considering the inertia o' systemic racism in the US is a common lesson o' crt and if hurl were doing legit crt in his classes o' snot-nosed crumb-snatchers we would applaud his edumacational skilz as beyond 1337. 'course the aformentioned fantasy is so not what is included in a 5th grade florida math textbook which perhaps mentions harriet tubman in a rando word problem... or lord only knows what is the actual obstacles florida identified in their textbook review and denial as they refuse to provide examples.

however, none o' this matters, 'cause (and AGAIN, and again and again and again,) at least one boardie will keep coming back to this until he gets the right answer.

HA! Good Fun!

Gromnir are you still  blocking my posts, I hope not because I miss our debates

I promise not to make anymore jokes about guns on sale in bakeries  or suggesting that GD has been influenced by moving to a  liberal state

Normally I dont mind people ignoring me but its different with you, I do mind 

 

 

[Raithe]

So is this politics or random weird stuff?

Status Kuo - Florida banned almost half its math books from school

CNN - Florida bans math books that might have CRT references

 

[BruceVC]

9 hours ago, Raithe said:

So is this politics or random weird stuff?

Status Kuo - Florida banned almost half its math books from school

CNN - Florida bans math books that might have CRT references

 

But why would any math book have something like SEL in it? Read this is link and tell me how this is relevant to learning math?

https://www.nu.edu/resources/social-emotional-learning-sel-why-it-matters-for-educators/

@Hurlshot When Hurlshot mentioned SEL on another post I had never really heard of it, Im sure my brothers who have kids know about it. And I'm glad he raised it because I am a little concerned about it but not in the same way I had and have some concerns with CRT

So I am just going to follow how SEL is implemented and hopefully its truly beneficial for children because end of the day that should be the most  important objective for all of us " whats should kids be learning at schools  " 

But going back to my question, what has SEL got to do with math?

@Guard Dog GD you understand math and how its applied in your field, what has SEL got to do with math and why should it be in any math textbook

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by BruceVC

[Gorth]

20 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Anyway, the direction I was going with this is why say the mathbooks had CRT and refuse to provide the names and publishers or examples of CRT in the books? Well, there probably isn't any.  If the Miami Herald (I'm pretty sure that is where I read it) is right and it's really an objection to SEL no one is afraid of that. But they ARE conditioned to be afraid of CRT. So there you are.

It's probably safer for those people to burn those books on large pyres... you know, just to be sure?

[Guard Dog]

5 hours ago, BruceVC said:

 

@Guard Dog GD you understand math and how its applied in your field, what has SEL got to do with math and why should it be in any math textbook

 

Nothing. Nothing at all. And it should not be. This very morning I am working on a project in Ohio where it it cost prohibitive to use fiber optic to extend a CPRI interface to a node that is nine miles (roughly 15 km) from the hub. So we are planning on using microwave to create the link. My job is to plan and design the hop. Well, the first step is to plot the exact distance and bearing between the GPS coordinates of the hub and node. You do that using a pen, paper, calculator and the Haversine Formula you might have learned in Trig. It's a method for plotting distance and directional vectors between two points on a sphere. Because even at that distance the curvature of the Earth must be accounted for. And Haversine does not care about your feelings. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Guard Dog
Only one "I" in CPRI

[majestic]

38 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Because even at that distance the curvature of the Earth must be accounted for.

That's what they want you to believe. Don't be a fool! #ITISFLAT

[Gromnir]

56 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Nothing. Nothing at all. And it should not be. This very morning I am working on a project in Ohio where it it cost prohibitive to use fiber optic to extend a CIPRI interface to a node that is nine miles (roughly 15 km) from the hub. So we are planning on using microwave to create the link. My job is to plan and design the hop. Well, the first step is to plot the exact distance and bearing between the GPS coordinates of the hub and node. You do that using a pen, paper, calculator and the Haversine Formula you might have learned in Trig. It's a method for plotting distance and directional vectors between two points on a sphere. Because even at that distance the curvature of the Earth must be accounted for. And Haversine does not care about your feelings. 

as usual, @Hurlsnot would prove a better resource, but...

How to make cross-curricular teaching part of your plan

just a rando interweb link, but cross-curricular is not new, though is likely unknown to more than a few o' us who did matriculate decades past. teach history & math or english & physics as complimentary as 'posed to insular is having more than a few educational proponents.

is a tendency for us older folks to respond to newfangled ideas as wasteful and unnecessary, and perhaps curmudgeons such as gd is correct. nevertheless, am not feeling particular threatened if material which would ordinarily be taught in a 1980s social studies class, such as the underground rail road or the triangle shirtwaist factory fire, managed to be incorporated into science or math lessons. 

our background most assured is not education, so am not suggesting cross-curricular is a good approach. however, am suspecting cross-curricular explains some o' the more ludicrous claims from the current gop regarding indoctrination via math and science textbooks.

HA! Good Fun!

ps  it's monumental stoopid to debate what the florida gop and other red state legislatures might be aggrieved concerning the teaching o' *add scary abbreviation du jour here*. w/o concrete examples, is ridiculous to imagine the phantoms being imagined into existence and then defend or vanquish such manifestations. that said, whenever presented with concrete examples, as the fox article we has mentioned previous in this thread, so far we has seen nothing to support gop fears. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Gromnir