The Cinema and Movie Thread

[Malcador]

This forum is by pricks, for pricks.

[Sarex]

All the Matrix movies are great (except the very dated CGI)!

 

@KP Cross Split Attack The Animatrix explains how the war with the machines came to be.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

48 minutes ago, Malcador said:

This forum is by pricks, for pricks.

But who is the biggest? One prick to rule them all.

26 minutes ago, Sarex said:

All the Matrix movies are great (except the very dated CGI)!

 

@KP Cross Split Attack The Animatrix explains how the war with the machines came to be.

I vaguely remember that, but it's been almost two decades since I watched it.

[Zoraptor]

4 hours ago, Sarex said:

Money...

Honestly, I think the biggest reason for the LOTR show is Jeff Bezos' ego and a desire to add prestige to his rather shabby business empire (bit like his obsession with space, really, though without the practical aspect of him flying off to the moon or whatever once the earth has become covered with extraneous amazon wrapping from tacky plastic nick knacks). He's always wanted Amazon to be #1 in everything, including streaming, it's only once they're #1 and have the competition hobbled that the money making takes over. It's been Amazon's #1 tactic since getting big to use profits in one area to subsidise another which is losing money while they drive the competition there out of business. Bundling the streaming with other more desirable services is, er, prime Amazon tactics, and parachuting in a well known IP with a built in fanbase is an obvious approach. So overall the LOTR show looks like a classic loss leader, ie not actually designed to make money but to get attention. Even just the rights are ludicrously expensive- and they were happy enough to sit on them until Christopher Tolkien was no longer a problem. They did a huge amount of prelim work on the initial 'Young Aragorn' concept that all went into the circular file once they got the rights to 2nd Age when C Tolkien stepped back (and later died).

Will be interesting to see if the focus on big budget stuff lasts since Amazon as a whole probably doesn't have too many illusions about driving Netflix or Disney out of business and Bezos is at least theoretically gone; so it will be a battle of how much money it loses vs the hit to Amazon's prestige a cancellation would have.

(99% chance its bad fanfic writing is the problem, but its failure gets blamed on black hobbits triggering incels or something)

[Keyrock]

Unfortunately, everything these days has to be a franchise or part of a cinematic universe because money. There are lots of movies that work really well as a single self-contained story but fall apart once you try to extend the story for the sake of sequels. The Matrix certainly fits that bill IMHO. Heck, even some movies with good sequels fit into this category. I have a couple of examples that coincidentally both are tied to James Cameron. The Terminator should have just been a single movie. T2 already began the process of jumping the shark, but it worked because it's such a fantastic action movie and ends with an absolutely perfect ending to the story. If only it ended there... Alien was a perfect standalone slasher movie in space.  Then we got Aliens which continued a story that warranted no continuation, but it worked out because it's a very good movie. If only it had ended there...

[Hurlshort]

Well perhaps I can get a little bit of redemption from you snobs with the knowledge that I showed my kids The Matrix a few months ago and told them that is where the story ends.

[Bartimaeus]

1 hour ago, Keyrock said:

Unfortunately, everything these days has to be a franchise or part of a cinematic universe because money. There are lots of movies that work really well as a single self-contained story but fall apart once you try to extend the story for the sake of sequels. The Matrix certainly fits that bill IMHO. Heck, even some movies with good sequels fit into this category. I have a couple of examples that coincidentally both are tied to James Cameron. The Terminator should have just been a single movie. T2 already began the process of jumping the shark, but it worked because it's such a fantastic action movie and ends with an absolutely perfect ending to the story. If only it ended there... Alien was a perfect standalone slasher movie in space.  Then we got Aliens which continued a story that warranted no continuation, but it worked out because it's a very good movie. If only it had ended there...

This reminds me that I've been planning on watch Aliens "in the near future" for probably the last 3 years, and I still haven't done it. I should really do that...in the near future...

3 minutes ago, Hurlsnot said:

Well perhaps I can get a little bit of redemption from you snobs with the knowledge that I showed my kids The Matrix a few months ago and told them that is where the story ends.

"Snob" is a pretty kind descriptor, and I will gladly accept that, . And yes, I'm proud of you! ...To be honest, though, I think I'd rather re-watch the second and third Matrix movies more than The Hobbit films. What bloated and pale imitations of the original triology those clusterducks are...when they very obviously shouldn't have been an attempt at any kind of imitation to begin with. I've heard there's a fan-edit that combined all three movies into a single four and a half hour movie that's supposedly much more watchable (...as far as 4 and a half hour long films go), but I've never seen it, mostly due to lack of interest. It's no doubt easily obtainable. There's a sort of inherent stink of wrongness permeating just about every moment of those films and it only gets stronger the further you get in as the writing and narrative get progressively more odious, and no amount of fan-editing is likely to remove that for me, so it's probably best I just stay away.

[Hurlshort]

Yeah, I go through phases where I just can't get enough Middle Earth. I'll play LotRO, watch bits of the movies, and read a book or two. It last about 6-8 weeks.

I can't watch The Hobbit films in one sitting, but 30 minutes chunks where you get to see the Shire the Lonely Mountain is a good way to scratch the itch.

Hence I'll probably dig the new series. Unless it is bad.

[Sarex]

43 minutes ago, Hurlsnot said:

Well perhaps I can get a little bit of redemption from you snobs with the knowledge that I showed my kids The Matrix a few months ago and told them that is where the story ends.

They will be so confused when they watch the new one.

[majestic]

47 minutes ago, Hurlsnot said:

Well perhaps I can get a little bit of redemption from you snobs with the knowledge that I showed my kids The Matrix a few months ago and told them that is where the story ends.

There's hope for you yet!

34 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

This reminds me that I've been planning on watch Aliens "in the near future" for probably the last 3 years, and I still haven't done it. I should really do that...in the near future...

I really don't think you need to. It's an action piece set in the Alien universe. It's a pretty good action piece, but it is what it is nonetheless.

Don't get me wrong, I'm usually the person to stir up a hornet's nest by saying I prefer Aliens to Alien these days, because all the tension and suspense is gone from the first film by now while the second one still holds up as nice action fun, but I don't see this working for you at all. Cross it off the list at some point, by all means, but yeah... let me know if you actually liked it though.  

34 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

To be honest, though, I think I'd rather re-watch the second and third Matrix movies more than The Hobbit films.

You might remember that I once talked about how bright lights and the changes in luminosity a TV gives off will keep me awake at night, and I can't sleep with the TV on, right? There are two films that have the distinction of making me fall asleep at the cinema, of all places.

One was Alien³ (although in all fairness, that was during the Alien Resurrection premiere quadruple feature, and I woke up right for Resurrection and later wished I had slept through that instead of Alien³), and the other one was Matrix: Reloaded. Can't even begin to describe the level of boring and bad necessary to achieve that feat...

Edited December 3, 2021 by majestic

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

13 minutes ago, Sarex said:

They will be so confused when they watch the new one.

So will the rest of us tbh.

[Bartimaeus]

25 minutes ago, Hurlsnot said:

Yeah, I go through phases where I just can't get enough Middle Earth. I'll play LotRO, watch bits of the movies, and read a book or two. It last about 6-8 weeks.

I can't watch The Hobbit films in one sitting, but 30 minutes chunks where you get to see the Shire the Lonely Mountain is a good way to scratch the itch.

Hence I'll probably dig the new series. Unless it is bad.

I'm in favor of everyone always being able to enjoy their favorite things, including the worst no good terrible very bad parts of it...so long as they aren't trying to convince the rest of us that it's any good, .

20 minutes ago, majestic said:

I really don't think you need to. It's an action piece set in the Alien universe. It's a pretty good action piece, but it is what it is nonetheless.

Don't get me wrong, I'm usually the person to stir up a hornet's nest by saying I prefer Aliens to Alien these days, because all the tension and suspense is gone from the first film by now while the second one still holds up as nice action fun, but I don't see this working for you at all. Cross it off the list at some point, by all means, but yeah... let me know if you actually liked it though.

I watched the first one for the first time a few years back and really liked it, hence why Aliens has been on my "yeah I should do that..................eventually" list. Being a bigger, dumber action movie does sound less interesting, but I suppose I really ought to get to get it done and over with someday soon. It's the only other one that's supposed to be any good, as far as I know.

25 minutes ago, majestic said:

You might remember that I once talked about how bright lights and the changes in luminosity a TV gives off will keep me awake at night, and I can't sleep with the TV on, right? There are two films that have the distinction of making me fall asleep at the cinema, of all places.

One was Alien³ (although in all fairness, that was during the Alien Resurrection premiere quadruple feature, and I woke up right for Resurrection and later wished I had slept through that instead of Alien³), and the other one was Matrix: Reloaded. Can't even begin to describe the level of boring and bad necessary to achieve that feat...

I have to be honest with you - although I've actually for real seen both Matrix 2: Redevilutionizer and Matrix 3: Resonancecascadization, I am having the darnest time trying to remember what happens in one versus the other. All I'm remembering are small details like...Neo being stuck in some kind of train station loop, some really awful meme-y looking martial artists, a white room with a billion cameras...I think that's the second one. The third one is just a billion Agent Smiths and the giant mech defense of whatever the hell the human sanctuary was called? Icon? Cyclon? ...Ah, screw it, it's not worth remembering anyways.

[Amentep]

1 hour ago, majestic said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm usually the person to stir up a hornet's nest by saying I prefer Aliens to Alien these days,

I didn't realize things had changed so much. Back just a decade or so ago, suggesting that Aliens was not superior to Alien and that Terminator 2 wasn't better than Terminator was some sort of fan-heresy of the highest order.

Did everyone get tired of James Cameron all of a sudden?

[Keyrock]

10 minutes ago, Amentep said:

I didn't realize things had changed so much. Back just a decade or so ago, suggesting that Aliens was not superior to Alien and that Terminator 2 wasn't better than Terminator was some sort of fan-heresy of the highest order.

Did everyone get tired of James Cameron all of a sudden?

T2 is indeed better than The Terminator, I'd go so far as to say that it may be the best pure action movie ever made. In no way shape or form is Aliens better than Alien, and this is coming from a guy that loves action movies and is usually not into horror (though I love horror comedies).

[Amentep]

I've always ranked Terminator and Alien as better than their respective 1st sequels. And boy was that opinion controversial not long ago (not as controversial as disliking Up! and Wall-e was not long after they came out,  though - egads people got hostile over that opinion).

I don't remember much about the Matrix sequels, but I wasn't over-enamored with the first film.

[Keyrock]

The list of sequels better than the original is very short. I can only think of 4 off the top of my head:

T2: Judgement Day

The Empire Strikes Back

Gremlins 2

Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey

As for the Alien vs Aliens debate, Aliens is a very good action movie but Alien is the best slasher I've ever seen; granted, that's not my area of expertise, so take that for what it's worth.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Keyrock

[LadyCrimson]

Aliens still has the "and then there were none" aspect. Well, almost. Also, watch the extended version if you want a little more chr. flavor to go with that all out action. Although it wasn't my personal fave thing because one: it makes the movie longer and two: I was not at all into that particular subplot of the film. But I can see why some would prefer it.

The extended version of T2 was interesting with its little tidbits here and here, but not particularly needed.

....and I'm one of those few who still prefers the first Star Wars over Empire Strikes Back, even as an adult. Oh sure, I was surprised at Vader's reveal and cried at the end because of Han and Leia (I was like 11-12 or something) and Yoda was cool and all .. but I found/find Empire's pacing and its positioning as a "middle movie" a little dull.  I felt Luke's tendency to be a whiny, sorta unlikable brat solidified even more, and it became ever more apparent that Mark Hamill is a limited live-action actor (Harrison Ford is much higher caliber and it showed even back then).   Edit: actually, I would've been happy if the original Star Wars was all there was. 

Edited December 4, 2021 by LadyCrimson

[Amentep]

I also prefer Star Wars to Empire.

Keyrock, you might be the only person I've seen who prefers Gremlins 2 to the original.

[ShadySands]

I loved the Matrix but the sequels were like some proto-Last Jedi nonsense in that they made me care less about the original

[Keyrock]

14 minutes ago, Amentep said:

Keyrock, you might be the only person I've seen who prefers Gremlins 2 to the original.

Then I'm the only person that's right. 

Gremlins 2 is nearly 2 hours of taking the piss out of Gremlins and it's DELIGHTFUL.

[Amentep]

I've only seen both films once a couple of decades ago, so my memories of both are very weak.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I have never seen any Gremlins movie. I guess I should remedy that someday.

Alien is much better than Aliens though, I don't see why anyone would argue otherwise.

35 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

I loved the Matrix but the sequels were like some proto-Last Jedi nonsense in that they made me care less about the original

I don't even remember anything about them but I still remember the first Matrix fondly. Maybe they were so bad I forgot them to cope.

[Keyrock]

The problem with the Matrix sequels is that at the end of the first movie Neo is essentially a god inside the matrix, so where do you go from there? You can't have any tension with Neo inside the matrix. I don't care how many agent Smiths attack him, or dreadlock ghosts, or kung fu guys with melee weapons, there is never any tension because Neo is all-powerful. The only place where Neo is vulnerable is the real world, but all the interesting stuff takes place inside the matrix, so...

The lesson here is: Don't make your protagonist a god at the end of the first movie if you intend on making a franchise.

[Hurlshort]

Fun Fact: Pitch Black is the 3rd best Aliens movie. 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

3 hours ago, Hurlsnot said:

Fun Fact: Pitch Black is the 3rd best Aliens movie. 

That's not saying much.