Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Part 2

[bugarup]

It's nice to see they sneaked more hair styles for liches into that long-ass list.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

dunno. after initial choosing the dwarf general in a beta run, have been all-in with mage generals... and marksmen. 

HA! Good Fun!

Silverhill? Yeah, I had been using him exclusively up until this playthrough, then decided I'd see what all the mage general fuss is about. To my surprise, the hype was warranted. Figured I'd try my luck with a ranged general as well, but that's not going so great. Thought maybe my luck was changing when she got access to a feat that increased damage for all ranged units, but so far that's been a single glimmer of hope in a sea of disappointment.

4 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

Same, mage generals and as many ranged units as I can muster

Thinking next time through two generals will be mage general and melee general, the latter leaning on marksmen, as per how I was doing it before.

[Gromnir]

4 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

Same, mage generals and as many ranged units as I can muster

act v battles got sooper ez 'cause o' mage power and that one crusade ability which allows you to multiply random army units by some formula involving your mythic level. make certain to split off your favoured range unit so is the only kinda unit in a specific army and then every couple o' weeks you are able to add almost 400 marksmen... or whatevers.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[uuuhhii]

marksman are great if enemy general doesn't cast spell

[Gromnir]

as an aside, and perhaps a belated warning, am no longer able to respec with the new beta build.

HA! Good Fun!

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

as an aside, and perhaps a belated warning, am no longer able to respec with the new beta build.

HA! Good Fun!

At all or part way through? I noticed last night (pre-beta patch) that there were issues respecing classes that channel energy

Also, my general is missing Master of Maneuver I

Edited October 20, 2021 by Achilles

[Gromnir]

11 hours ago, Achilles said:

At all or part way through? I noticed last night (pre-beta patch) that there were issues respecing classes that channel energy

"at all."

hilor does not offer a respec option. period. can hire a merc. can discuss nightspinner. can't ask for training for you or party mates.

HA! Good Fun!

ps checked in both act ii and act v. did not check i, iii, or iv... although iv wouldn't be hilor.

pps according to owclat community feedback (not a developer, never a developer) respec were never intended for core and above, and Gromnir were testing on core. removing respec were considered a bug fix.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Gromnir

[Gromnir]

mythic weapon finesse is no longer working with ranged weapons, but it still provides bonuses when using glaives, great swords and every melee weapon we tested.

HA! Good Fun! 

[Guest]

Critical bug trying to track down information in act III about the location of a certain cleric's brother.

Infinite loading screen when visiting alleged last known location.

[uuuhhii]

just losted 2 hours of progress due to a severe stutter bug

headache inducing

[Gromnir]

also, the bug where loremaster free feats ignored prerequisites remains and is now worse 'cause you are able to choose trickster feats.

HA! Good Fun!

[ShadySands]

Just killed half my party because my spells started doing splash damage. Not sure what's causing it.

 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

Just killed half my party because my spells started doing splash damage. Not sure what's causing it.

 

Metamagic Bolster?

Not sure if it was covered in the patch, but there's a fix for it on the Nexus

[ShadySands]

16 minutes ago, Achilles said:

Metamagic Bolster?

Not sure if it was covered in the patch, but there's a fix for it on the Nexus

Looks like that was it. Bolstered scorching rays with zippy magic wrecked my front line even though it says it's supposed to only affect enemies.

Is zippy magic supposed to work with healing spells or is something else causing this? I keep hurting myself when trying to heal others as a dhampir oracle. Even funnier is when I try to heal myself because I take damage and then so does someone close by but then a third person is healed by it. This happened to me before but since I wasn't a dhampir I didn't care. I also don't think I had zippy magic on that run as I was an Angel.

Edited October 21, 2021 by ShadySands

[Gromnir]

21 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

Looks like that was it. Bolstered scorching rays with zippy magic wrecked my front line even though it says it's supposed to only affect enemies.

Is zippy magic supposed to work with healing spells or is something else causing this? I keep hurting myself when trying to heal others as a dhampir oracle. Even funnier is when I try to heal myself because I take damage and then so does someone close by but then a third person is healed by it. This happened to me before but since I wasn't a dhampir I didn't care. I also don't think I had zippy magic on that run as I was an Angel.

bolster is current gonna cause friendly fire splash w/o zippy. 

if scorching ray were annoying, am gonna suggest not using magic missile. the damage calculations are (were) busted and the splash damage were devastating to friends and foes alike. we were seeing +120 damage from magic missile using a mere second level bolstered slot. am s'posing using the grandmaster rod would only make matters worse. but again, the splash damage were a party killer, so...

HA! Good Fun! 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Gromnir

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

Looks like that was it. Bolstered scorching rays with zippy magic wrecked my front line even though it says it's supposed to only affect enemies.

Is zippy magic supposed to work with healing spells or is something else causing this? I keep hurting myself when trying to heal others as a dhampir oracle. Even funnier is when I try to heal myself because I take damage and then so does someone close by but then a third person is healed by it. This happened to me before but since I wasn't a dhampir I didn't care. I also don't think I had zippy magic on that run as I was an Angel.

https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderwrathoftherighteous/mods/189

While you're there...

https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderwrathoftherighteous/mods/161

[ShadySands]

I've largely avoided metamagic but then I thought (or said since no one can be sure. I was there and I don't know) to myself, self, because that's what I call myself, I said (or thought) maybe you should try using metamagic to boost your lower level spells since it supposedly doesn't break the game anymore. Only to find out that it breaks the game in a different way.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

I've largely avoided metamagic but then I thought (or said since no one can be sure. I was there and I don't know) to myself, self, because that's what I call myself, I said (or thought) maybe you should try using metamagic to boost your lower level spells since it supposedly doesn't break the game anymore. Only to find out that it breaks the game in a different way.

Right.

So necessary for Ember though

[Gromnir]

28 minutes ago, Achilles said:

Right.

So necessary for Ember though

spontaneous casters has meta spells turned into full round actions, so there is a downside particular if you plan to exploit sorcerous reflex mythic. however,  if you wanna have scorching rays and hellfire rays at pretty much every level, then heighten is a good ember option, but likely the only good metamagic option.  use rods for every other metamagic need. is an act 3 crusade relic which lets you maximize six spells a day, which is kinda keen. don't let the unholy aspect concern you as demons n' such take damage from unholy. and then there is the late game grandmaster rod, but such is act v, so is hardly the kinda thing 'pon which you build a character.

...

ember is a sore subject for us as she has the blackened curse, which is arguable her best feature. irony? the problem is blackened curse is still bugged and so most o' the oracle builds we has considered is on hold until blackened actual provides something other than just burning hands and an attack malus for a player character. 

as to metamagic, depending on how you build nenio, heighten is pure gold.

...

y'know, for nenio we just use rods too, save for heighten, and maybe persistent... and then mostly for phantasmal killer.  so, metamagic is key only if you go full illusion for nenio 'cause you want the dc for pk and weird as high as you can get it. 'course you can multi nenio into an evocation-based acrane trickster blaster who puts ember to shame using heightened hellfire rays n' such. 

our current build problem is fact our angel inquisitor ended up being so good. loads o' skills and ended up doing reliable +800 damage per round during boss encounters even w/o crits. anything we play from this point save a couple pure cheez builds is gonna feel serious underpowered.

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

spontaneous casters has meta spells turned into full round actions, so there is a downside particular if you plan to exploit sorcerous reflex mythic. however,  if you wanna have scorching rays and hellfire rays at pretty much every level, then heighten is a good ember option, but likely the only good metamagic option.  use rods for every other metamagic need. is an act 3 crusade relic which lets you maximize six spells a day, which is kinda keen. don't let the unholy aspect concern you as demons n' such take damage from unholy. and then there is the late game grandmaster rod, but such is act v, so is hardly the kinda thing 'pon which you build a character.

...

ember is a sore subject for us as she has the blackened curse, which is arguable her best feature. irony? the problem is blackened curse is still bugged and so most o' the oracle builds we has considered is on hold until blackened actual provides something other than just burning hands and an attack malus for a player character. 

as to metamagic, depending on how you build nenio, heighten is pure gold.

...

y'know, for nenio we just use rods too, save for heighten, and maybe persistent... and then mostly for phantasmal killer.  so, metamagic is key only if you go full illusion for nenio 'cause you want the dc for pk and weird as high as you can get it. 'course you can multi nenio into an evocation-based acrane trickster blaster who puts ember to shame using heightened hellfire rays n' such. 

our current build problem is fact our angel inquisitor ended up being so good. loads o' skills and ended up doing reliable +800 damage per round during boss encounters even w/o crits. anything we play from this point save a couple pure cheez builds is gonna feel serious underpowered.

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

Hmm. Scorching Ray with Empower, Maximize, Bolster, and Heighten doesn't feel like a downside to me . Only downside is that pre-beta, heighten didn't appear to actually improve the CL of spells (at least it wasn't reflected in the spellbook)

Rods are great, but with limited use, I tend to put them on my PC (extend rod makes Divine Power, Eaglesoul, and Righteous Might 24 hour duration spells. Maximize for Bolt of Justice, Blade Barrier, and Flame Strike. Greater Maximize for Storm of Justice, Wrath of the Righteous, and Wall of Light) and Sosiel (Greater Reach for Heal, et al). Ember would have to rest far too often to leverage rods (at lease exclusively) in my build.

Re: your last point - Plan A for me was always warpriest. Got tired of waiting for Owlcat to actually implement it (correctly) in the beta, so gave up and "settled" for Cleric/Crusader. Which is now my bread and butter (and xtra cheese?) build. I still love the warpriest, so I have a merc (follower of Sarenrae to utilize all her gear), but can't see taking one as a PC without feeling like a serious self-gimp.

[Gromnir]

3 hours ago, Achilles said:

Hmm. Scorching Ray with Empower, Maximize, Bolster, and Heighten doesn't feel like a downside to me . 

 

you mean other than the three feats beyond heighten which coulda' been replaced with stuff you genuine need and cannot replicate with rods? to bump up scorching ray?  dunno. am not seeing the benefit from the numbers and the forced abandonment o' sorcerous reflex. can't say how much difference bolster makes 'cause have been avoiding since is busted and we don't use mods specific as it screws up our bug reporting. 'course if you feel like you are getting use from your ember build then you are. 

shadow evocation spells have sudden stopped being castable for a feyspeaker test merc we built. am knowing shadow evocation is broken, but not this broken. shadow evocation was working on a sorc we made earlier, so am not sure what the issue could be.

HA! Good Fun!

ps am genuine a bit perturbed with the feyspeaker thing. for our next wotr character we kinda decided to go azata, and we wanted to do something much different than our angel inquisitor... other than fact am @Guard Dog level o' appreciation for dogs, albeit am speaking o' wotr dogs. trip machines. we did leopard with our inquisitor, and the cats is fantastic tanks, but dogs is likely the superior option. so for the azata we wanted an animal companion caster build, and preferable a charisma caster. nature oracle, sylvan sorcerer or feyspeaker druid were the obvious choices. might be stuck with the sorc by default. were a distant third 'mongst ouroptions too. 

Edited October 22, 2021 by Gromnir

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Gromnir said:

you mean other than the three feats beyond heighten which coulda' been replaced with stuff you genuine need and cannot replicate with rods?

I guess I don't know how you're operationally defining "genuinely needs" as it pertains to her.

2 hours ago, Gromnir said:

and the forced abandonment o' sorcerous reflex

Not mutually exclusive. Just because some of her spells are full-round casts, due to metamagic, doesn't mean that all of them are. Besides, sorcerous reflex only applies to her first round of combat. If it were every round, then I could see why taking both it and metamagic feats would be a bad idea.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Achilles
punctuation

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, Achilles said:

I guess I don't know how you're operationally defining "genuinely needs" as it pertains to her.

Not mutually exclusive. Just because some of her spells are full-round casts, due to metamagic, doesn't mean that all of them are. Besides, sorcerous reflex only applies to her first round of combat. If it were every round, then I could see why taking both it and metamagic feats would be a bad idea.

if you are using ember as a blaster, then 'course the stuff you want to use with reflex is gonna be the spells you pump with metamagic. and your list o' genuine feat needs maybe different than ours, but it won't matter 'cause whatever is on the list is stuff you can't simple replace with metamagic rods. but again, if she is effective for you, then that is all that matters.

HA! Good Fun!

[Gromnir]

separate post 'cause is not related to the ember discussion but is instead related to shadow evocation spells.

is not something most casual wotr players would be aware, but shadow spells are not shadow as implemented in wotr. a wotr shadow evocation spell is for all intents and purposes a heightened evocation spell. end of story. similarly, if you cast hellfire ray from greater shadow evocation it behaves in all respects as a hellfire ray, but heightened to level eight. there is no will save. there is no reduced damage. as such, powerful shadows mythic does nothing in wotr and if you have spell focus: illusion as a feat, it won't do diddly when you cast shadow evocation spells. you gotta take evocation related feats and mythic feats to boost your hellfire ray cast with greater shadow evocation, and you need ascendant element: fire if you want the shadow hellfire ray to do full damage to demons. also, if you are a conjuror, then you may even get the benefits of spells such as grease heightened to level 9 with all your conjuration feats modifying it by casting shades. 

shadow spells are a curious option. 

unfortunate, feyspeakers are no longer able to cast shadow evocation spells (inexplicably they have always been precluded from casting shadow conjuration spells) but this little quirk does offer a number of sorcerer builds, and a few other classes, a unique way to expand a spell repertoire and gain the benefits of heightened spells even if one does not have the heighten feat... although chances are you have heightened anyways, 'cause.

HA! Good Fun!

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

if you are using ember as a blaster, then 'course the stuff you want to use with reflex is gonna be the spells you pump with metamagic. and your list o' genuine feat needs maybe different than ours, but it won't matter 'cause whatever is on the list is stuff you can't simple replace with metamagic rods. but again, if she is effective for you, then that is all that matters.

HA! Good Fun!

I appreciate the 'bygones be bygones' sentiment, but I'm genuinely curious how you're using her.

I've leaned into the blaster role because that's what her starting build lends itself to, but am open to learning from missed opportunities.