The all things Political Topic - When the sun Rises, the shadows must retreat Fleeing in fear from the Fires of dawn

[Elerond]

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-04-05/california-prisons-consider-gender-identity-housing-requests

"Just over 1% of California’s prison population — or 1,129 inmates — have identified as nonbinary, intersex or transgender"

"The new California law follows other changes in the state’s treatment of transgender prisoners. In 2018, a law took effect removing obstacles for prisoners to change their gender and name. And in 2015, California became the first state to create policy for transgender inmates to apply for state-funded gender-affirming surgery. According to the prisons agency, from January 2015 through February 2021, 65 out of 205 requests for surgery were approved and nine were completed."

"Inmates can request transfers to their correctional counselor, which are then considered by a committee that includes the warden, custody, medical and mental health staffers, and a PREA compliance manager. Staffers review the inmate’s criminal record, health needs, custody level, sentence and safety concerns."

https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2016/sep/2/condoms-now-available-prisoners-three-states/

"Legislation in California, signed into law by Governor Jerry Brown in September 2014, allows prisoners in the state’s 34 adult correctional facilities access to condoms."

"In a February 2016 statement to Fox 26 KMPH, California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation (CDCR) spokesman Joe Orlando emphasized the anticipated benefits of the law to California communities.

“Ninety percent of these guys are going to be sent home,” said Orlando. “So when they get back to the communities and to their families, let’s make it as safe as we possibly can.”

San Francisco has been passing out condoms in its jails since 1989, while Los Angeles County’s jail system – which averages more than 18,000 detainees at any one time – has been distributing them for more than a decade, thus giving Brown enough empirical evidence to sign the bill into law. Two previous versions of the legislation were vetoed – first in 2006 by former Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger and again in 2008 by Brown.

Both governors cited California Penal Code section 286(e), which outlaws “sodomy with any person of any age while confined in any state prison ... or in any detention facility,” as the reason for vetoing the legislation."

"“It’s only logical to put things in place to keep people safe,” said Sha Wallace-Stepter, incarcerated at San Quentin. “But me personally, I’m completely against it, because I don’t encourage homosexuality in prison.”"

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-prisons-condoms-idUSBREA4C0ZB20140513

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/pilot.pdf

"In 2007, the United Nations Office on Drugs and
Crime joined WHO and UNAIDS in recommending a range of risk-reduction measures,
including confidential condom access for all male and female prisoners"

 

Seems that daily wire has bit overblown the issue

[Azdeus]

52 minutes ago, Elerond said:

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-04-05/california-prisons-consider-gender-identity-housing-requests

"Just over 1% of California’s prison population — or 1,129 inmates — have identified as nonbinary, intersex or transgender"

"The new California law follows other changes in the state’s treatment of transgender prisoners. In 2018, a law took effect removing obstacles for prisoners to change their gender and name. And in 2015, California became the first state to create policy for transgender inmates to apply for state-funded gender-affirming surgery. According to the prisons agency, from January 2015 through February 2021, 65 out of 205 requests for surgery were approved and nine were completed."

"Inmates can request transfers to their correctional counselor, which are then considered by a committee that includes the warden, custody, medical and mental health staffers, and a PREA compliance manager. Staffers review the inmate’s criminal record, health needs, custody level, sentence and safety concerns."

https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2016/sep/2/condoms-now-available-prisoners-three-states/

"Legislation in California, signed into law by Governor Jerry Brown in September 2014, allows prisoners in the state’s 34 adult correctional facilities access to condoms."

"In a February 2016 statement to Fox 26 KMPH, California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation (CDCR) spokesman Joe Orlando emphasized the anticipated benefits of the law to California communities.

“Ninety percent of these guys are going to be sent home,” said Orlando. “So when they get back to the communities and to their families, let’s make it as safe as we possibly can.”

San Francisco has been passing out condoms in its jails since 1989, while Los Angeles County’s jail system – which averages more than 18,000 detainees at any one time – has been distributing them for more than a decade, thus giving Brown enough empirical evidence to sign the bill into law. Two previous versions of the legislation were vetoed – first in 2006 by former Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger and again in 2008 by Brown.

Both governors cited California Penal Code section 286(e), which outlaws “sodomy with any person of any age while confined in any state prison ... or in any detention facility,” as the reason for vetoing the legislation."

"“It’s only logical to put things in place to keep people safe,” said Sha Wallace-Stepter, incarcerated at San Quentin. “But me personally, I’m completely against it, because I don’t encourage homosexuality in prison.”"

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-prisons-condoms-idUSBREA4C0ZB20140513

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/pilot.pdf

"In 2007, the United Nations Office on Drugs and
Crime joined WHO and UNAIDS in recommending a range of risk-reduction measures,
including confidential condom access for all male and female prisoners"

 

Seems that daily wire has bit overblown the issue

Seems you put in alot of time on looking into this, so thanks!

[Guard Dog]

It’s probably not a bad idea to consider this. A trans inmate is going to have a bad time no matter which gender they are housed with. It’s worth considering setting up a facility where they can be housed separately. It does not have to be a separate prison rather just a secure wing of an existing one. I cannot imagine the inmate population of transgender‘s is going to be all that big considering they are such a small percentage of the general population. Of course there’s always the overcrowding problem. The solution to that would be to not send anybody to prison for non-violent offenses. But that’s a different argument.

[Skarpen]

2 hours ago, Gromnir said:

some gender bias at work in this thread. trans prisoners, significant outnumbered by women prisoners in a ca prison setting, is gonna be the folks we assume is most in danger from being forced into sex acts against their will by fellow inmates. not saying the reverse is impossible, but am thinking one reason why transfer numbers were initially so low is precise 'cause only the most desperate trans prisoners were gonna considers such a dangerous option. however, time passed and the nightmare stories o' forced geldings did not materialize.

the trans prisoners is gonna be abused wherever they go, but it turns out the women population is not as bad as is the men.

HA! Good Fun!

Assuming that every rapist man that "claims" being transgender woman is actually transgender... 

And let's just skip over "Women incarcerated in California’s largest women’s prison are describing the conditions as “a nightmare’s worst nightmare”". Because believe all women unless they are saying or doing something against the snowflake agenda. 

[Zoraptor]

6 hours ago, Maedhros said:

In the same vein, how is this allowed: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57549653 (Transwoman in the olympics).

The short answer is that she has lower than the permitted level of testosterone as defined by weightlifting's governing body, passed the qualification mark (by a fair margin) and therefore had to be picked. If she hadn't been she could have sued our Olympic Committee over it and would have been there anyway, just with even more aggro.

The idea that especially in weightlifting you don't get permanent benefit from having male levels of testosterone for 30 years is completely ludicrous, but ultimately any blame for decisions made around that lies with the sport's international administration. And it should also be said that despite all that the expectation is maybe a bronze medal for Laurel Hubbard, not gold or silver, and there's absolutely no chance that she went transgender just to go to the Olympics.

[Raithe]

[Gromnir]

2 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

It’s probably not a bad idea to consider this. A trans inmate is going to have a bad time no matter which gender they are housed with. It’s worth considering setting up a facility where they can be housed separately. It does not have to be a separate prison rather just a secure wing of an existing one. I cannot imagine the inmate population of transgender‘s is going to be all that big considering they are such a small percentage of the general population. Of course there’s always the overcrowding problem. The solution to that would be to not send anybody to prison for non-violent offenses. But that’s a different argument.

total number of trans inmates transferred as o' june 2021: 24.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Guard Dog]

50 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

total number of trans inmates transferred as o' june 2021: 24.

HA! Good Fun!

 

Very small percentage of the population. But you would think providing non punitive protective custody would not be too great a burden. But I will be the first to admit I don’t know the first thing about the criminal justice or prison system don’t expect I ever will.

[Gromnir]

2 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Very small percentage of the population.

tiny.

however, spend extra money on prisoners is always gonna be a hard sell politically. sure, the state is custodial responsible for these individuals while they is incarcerated, but the majority o' the populace has little sympathy for prisoners.

nevertheless, given how horrifying the conditions is in cdc facilities for men in ca, am thinking there is concern people will in fact begin to identify as trans in the hope they might be moved someplace less awful by pretending to be trans. is hard to imagine the level o' desperation it would take to fake trans identity and the abuse one needs suffer for such an admission in both male and female facilities, but am suspecting this might be part o' the reluctance on the part o' prison authorities and state legislators to change policy. has been almost a year since legislation passed and a mere two dozen transfers have occurred. so what kinda fear would drive a person to pretend trans to escape their current situation?  is not as if fake trans inmates is gonna suffer less abuse than true trans. heck, am suspecting the fakers, if outed as fakes, would suffer even greater punishment from fellow inmates. but again, how terrible is their reality that inmates would fake trans in hopes o' a possible transfer?

regardless, spend money on prisoners to make their incarceration less brutal is almost always a dead end. am nevertheless disappointed by the myopia regarding the faker possibility. recognizing some will pretend to be trans in the hope they might be transferred is legit, but such a reality should speak as a damning condemnation o' the current incarceration approach.

HA! Good Fun!

ps am agreeing with gd regarding the overincarceration o' non violent offenders, but politically, tough on crime is the winning position. look to the recent nyc mayoral race for one such example. 

 

[Skarpen]

5 hours ago, Gromnir said:

tiny

https://news.wttw.com/2020/02/19/lawsuit-female-prisoner-says-she-was-raped-transgender-inmate

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/11/transgender-prisoner-who-sexually-assaulted-inmates-jailed-for-life

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/11/karen-white-how-manipulative-and-controlling-offender-attacked-again-transgender-prison

https://mynorthwest.com/2666243/doc-washington-correctional-center-women-men-transfer/amp/

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/seven-sex-attacks-in-womens-jails-by-transgender-convicts-cx9m8zqpg

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/12/female-prison-officers-raped-inmates-claiming-trans-rory-stewart/amp/

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/7878889002

https://www.illinoistimes.com/springfield/transgender-inmate-accused-of-rape/Content?oid=11867999&media=AMP+HTML

https://news.yahoo.com/hundreds-transgender-california-inmates-request-202324393.html

https://www.iwf.org/2021/03/18/report-female-prisoner-allegedly-raped-by-male-identifying-as-female/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/transgender-inmates-are-raping-female-prisons-at-a-shocking-rate-ministry-of-justice-reveals/

Seems like the victims should feel lucky the percentage is tiny... Great moral stance there 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Skarpen

[Gromnir]

you just random picked links w/o reading, yes? 

"Supporters of the Equality Act claim that it will outlaw discrimination against transgender Americans. But, by altering the legal meaning of the word “sex” in civil rights law to include “gender identity,”, the law could backfire on women and girls, stripping them of important protections and putting them at physical risk.

"In addition to putting female prisoners at-risk, if the Equality Act passes, it will: 

"Open women-only spaces (including locker rooms, battered women’s shelters, and bathrooms) to men.
"Destroy women’s sports by requiring that biological males be allowed to compete with and against female athletes.
"Limit freedom of speech for those who believe that biological sex is an immutable characteristic.
"Threaten the rights of parents and doctors who do not approve of procedures to alter sex.
"Force religious organizations to stop providing educational and other charitable services."

is kinda a trend in a few o' your links. use scare tactics from extreme rare incidents to push a broader agenda.

nevertheless, you no doubt thought it were meaningful to show a list o' unread articles which actual point to an "tiny" number of cases. 

accusations made by supposed department of corrections employee on a conservative radio show? ok. where is follow up? none? 

7 acts o' sexual assault in england by transgender prisoners... over the course of eight years? 

your first linked article is noteworthy 'cause the accused were simultaneous a plaintiff in an aclu case where days after the lawsuit were filed regarding the alleged rape (note: no criminal charges were ever made) judge were to decide whether or not to dismiss a case which accused the idoc o' failing to provide adequate medical treatment for transgender patients while incarcerated. the judge denied efforts to dismiss and the rape lawsuit (again, no criminal charges ever filed) were voluntarily dismissed with prejudice.

oh, and the usa today link is authored by https://lgbtbar.org/annual/conference-speakers/grace-detrevarah/ , a trans person and a VICTIM o' rape by male inmates, which you mighta' realized if you had bothered to read. nevertheless, thanks for the link, we learned o' grace who is working tireless to help educate people 'bout the difficulties trans people face, particular during incarceration. you (accidental) helped bring her to our attention, so... thanks? 

sheesh.

HA! Good Fun!

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Gromnir

[Skarpen]

4 hours ago, Gromnir said:

you just random picked links w/o reading, yes? 

Of course I didn't . 

I don't care how rare the incidents are. It's idiotic to me to put people in jeopardy even if it's rare. Regardless of a country or if it's putting a female in male prisons or a male in female prisons. 

You seem to be more concerned by trans female being hurt then women hurt by trans or "trans" female. Why? Because she was born male? Why such hate towards women? 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Skarpen

[Gromnir]

this were the usatoday article you linked:

Spoiler

I was sexually assaulted in prison. Overhaul the system to protect the trans community.
I, like many who suffer in prison, didn't report these rapes. That would have only put me in solitary and threatened my chances of reentering society.

(image)

A recent report by the Sylvia Rivera Law Project and TakeRoot Justice of incarcerated people who are trans, gender nonconforming and intersex in New York prisons revealed that 80% say they experienced physical assault by a corrections official.

GRACE DETREVARAH | OPINION CONTRIBUTOR | 9:15 am EDT July 15, 2021

I am a Black transgender woman who was harassed, physically assaulted and raped while I was incarcerated in New York state prisons. Despite federal law requiring prisons and jails to prevent rape and to support survivors, I lived in constant danger and fear of being sexually assaulted. 

At one prison, I was an aide charged with putting away materials after class. While I was going about my task, another incarcerated person entered the room, locking the door behind him.

He was a hulking figure. I couldn’t fight him; he would have crushed me. There were no corrections officers or staff in sight. I had no way out. I got down on my hands and knees as he forced me to perform oral sex. He threw three packs of cigarettes on the table before he left – as payment or a gift or maybe a sick joke? I don’t know because there was no conversation, just the unspoken threat of violence.

is no way to convince anybody with firing synapses you shared the previous after having read. you clear didn't read at least one o' your links, so what convinces us you read any o' the others save for perhaps the titles? 

try again.

edit

trump's week gets worse

earlier this week, the doj announced the executive were not recognizing trump privilege as a bar against administration current and former employees testifying 'bout january 6. 

Trump to acting AG, according to aide’s notes: ‘Just say the election was corrupt + leave the rest to me’

this led to a criminal complaint being filed against trump and meadows.

Texas loss alarms Trump advisers worried about party clout

oh, and back on the 20th...

Former Advisor to Presidential Candidate Among Three Defendants Charged with Acting as Agents of a Foreign Government

...

this is the point where somebody utters the old saw about not wishing this kinda misfortune on their worst enemy. is true. we wouldn't wish on any o' our enemies, 'cause we respect folks we recognize as genuine enemies. trump? 

*chuckle*

past few days has been a good start.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited July 30, 2021 by Gromnir

[Skarpen]

7 hours ago, Gromnir said:

this were the usatoday article you linked:

  Reveal hidden contents

I was sexually assaulted in prison. Overhaul the system to protect the trans community.
I, like many who suffer in prison, didn't report these rapes. That would have only put me in solitary and threatened my chances of reentering society.

(image)

A recent report by the Sylvia Rivera Law Project and TakeRoot Justice of incarcerated people who are trans, gender nonconforming and intersex in New York prisons revealed that 80% say they experienced physical assault by a corrections official.

GRACE DETREVARAH | OPINION CONTRIBUTOR | 9:15 am EDT July 15, 2021

I am a Black transgender woman who was harassed, physically assaulted and raped while I was incarcerated in New York state prisons. Despite federal law requiring prisons and jails to prevent rape and to support survivors, I lived in constant danger and fear of being sexually assaulted. 

At one prison, I was an aide charged with putting away materials after class. While I was going about my task, another incarcerated person entered the room, locking the door behind him.

He was a hulking figure. I couldn’t fight him; he would have crushed me. There were no corrections officers or staff in sight. I had no way out. I got down on my hands and knees as he forced me to perform oral sex. He threw three packs of cigarettes on the table before he left – as payment or a gift or maybe a sick joke? I don’t know because there was no conversation, just the unspoken threat of violence.

is no way to convince anybody with firing synapses you shared the previous after having read

Huh? Ok, so we are back to the tactic of you making some stuff up about the interlocutor so you don't have to actually discuss the topic at hand. Didn't know what I expected. I accept your white flag though, wasn't a good talk but you did your best I guess. 

[Gromnir]

@Skarpensay something more silly. the usatoday article you linked is a personal account o' a trans person suffering from sexual assaults while in a male prison facility and is substantial the raison d'être o' the california law which you origonal were questioning, but you would have us believe that your posting o' such were with awareness and intent given fact you is arguing against what grace is demanding?

first freaking line from the article:

"I was sexually assaulted in prison. Overhaul the system to protect the trans community."

again, the author o' the linked article, grace detrevarah, is a trans person assaulted in a male facility and and you is gonna continue to claim that as a part o' your indiscriminate shotgun spread o' links (most o' which did little to help your cause and largely failed to support your argument) the addition o' grace's harrowing tale o' victimization somehow were an intentional addition?

mind boggling the lengths you go to in an attempt to avoid admitting what were an obvious blunder.

HA! Good Fun!  

 

[Skarpen]

7 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

@Skarpensay something more silly. the usatoday article you linked is a personal account o' a trans person suffering from sexual assaults while in a male prison facility and is substantial the raison d'être o' the california law which you origonal were questioning, but you would have us believe that your posting o' such were with awareness and intent given fact you is arguing against what grace is demanding?

first freaking line from the article:

"I was sexually assaulted in prison. Overhaul the system to protect the trans community."

again, the author o' the linked article, grace detrevarah, is a trans person assaulted in a male facility and and you is gonna continue to claim that as a part o' your indiscriminate shotgun spread o' links (most o' which did little to help your cause and largely failed to support your argument) the addition o' grace's harrowing tale o' victimization somehow were an intentional addition?

mind boggling the lengths you go to in an attempt to avoid admitting what were an obvious blunder.

HA! Good Fun!  

 

I already know what's in the article, I read it and I posted it. I know it's hard for you to understand that humans can have broader views on an issue, which isn't really surprising given that you barely qualify as one.

I also wrote this if you missed:

18 hours ago, Skarpen said:

I don't care how rare the incidents are. It's idiotic to me to put people in jeopardy even if it's rare. Regardless of a country or if it's putting a female in male prisons or a male in female prisons. 

[Gromnir]

Just now, Skarpen said:

I already know what's in the article, I read it and I posted it. I know it's hard for you to understand that humans can have broader views on an issue, which isn't really surprising given that you barely qualify as one.

 

a broader view does not in any way explain why you would voluntarily post the victim story o' Grace. her victimization is an all too frequent repeated violation o' human dignity occurring in correctional facilities 'cross the US and the reality such happens too often formed the basis for why the ca law were written in the first place. 

your indifference to rarity o' trans assaults on women in prisons is 1) non responsive seeing as how has noting to do with grace's story o' being assaulted in a male facility, and 2) ignores fact you posted links to the numbers as if such numbers were meaningful or beneficial to your position.

if you genuine wish to do so we will once again respond to how little support your unread shotgun o' links helped you make your point, but let's first finish up with your claim you read the story by grace. one blunder at a time, yes?

so explain why grace's story is compelling and link worthy as a counter to the espoused rationale for implementing sb 132.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Skarpen]

LOL, why should I explain something you imagined about me? It's your claim that I wouldn't post this story not mine. I did in fact posted it. You defend your claim how a story of a victim is not relevant in discussion about victims because of who brought it up. 

But first let's hear why do you cry a river when biological men is a victim but handwave as rare when the same happens to biological women. Why it's ok in your view to put women with a male rapist, but abhorrent to do this to a trans person.

Seems I have been spot on with this article as it brought up your interesting views. And by interesting I mean absolutely horrible. 

[Gromnir]

22 hours ago, Skarpen said:

LOL, why should I explain something you imagined about me?

see now, that is a white flag declaration, seeing as how you have not offered an alternative to our... imagination. then again, nobody could do so and expect to be taken serious. explain why a person criticizing sb 132 would include your usatoday link?  ridiculous.

desantis is channeling his inner zorg?

HA! Good Fun!

[Guard Dog]

Ammunition shortages as US gun sales soar

so I have finally worked out the details of my plan for world domination. I switch my political affiliation to Democrat. Run for president and get elected. Then for the entirety of my first term make threatening comments about zero tolerance gun control, gun confiscation, police kicking down doors, etc. run for reelection promising to finally enact all of it in my second term. All the while Buying stock in Remington, American Eagle, Springfield Armory, and Sturm Ruger. Just before the election I sell all my stocks then take a short position on everything I just sold. Then withdraw from the election, disappear from public life and spend the rest of my days screwing models on the beach of my private island! 

Edited August 1, 2021 by Guard Dog

[Skarpen]

33 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

then again, nobody could do so and expect to be taken serious

This is so ironic I can almost taste the sweetness

You certainly choose a wierd hill to die on insisting you know what people intend or think better then they do. It's like arguing you know better what the book is about with the author. 

And I did explain why the article was inserted to the list. Because I acknowledge the problem that lead to this legislature, but I don't agree with the solution. And I find your argument that we exchange assault on incarcerated trans women  for assault on incancerated women because it will be rarer as appaling. 

GD solution for separate facilities/wings is way more sane then your argumentation. 

Edited August 1, 2021 by Skarpen

[Gromnir]

Just now, Skarpen said:

 

And I did explain why the article was inserted to the list. Because I acknowledge the problem that lead to this legislature, but I don't agree with the solution. 

 

dear lord. you are actual trying to gaslight folks into believing that you inserted a single link, w/o any kinda acknowledgement the link were antagonistic to your pov, into your shotgun list o' critiques o' sb 132 and the transfer o' trans prisoners to women facilities, 'cause you are open-minded and wanted to provide a balanced approach?

lordy.

the receipts.

am recalling @Gorth once observed: "Sharp_One was never man enough to own up to his mistakes. Too much narcissism in that one, would be surprised if he stayed away." you may not recall the poster in question, but sharp_one were hopeless and intransigent to the point of insensibility. he were comical stoopid at times and an utter joke in the minds o' most o' the community. don't follow sharp_one's example.

be better.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[BruceVC]

5 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

 

am recalling @Gorth once observed: "Sharp_One was never man enough to own up to his mistakes. Too much narcissism in that one, would be surprised if he stayed away." you may not recall the poster in question, but sharp_one were hopeless and intransigent to the point of insensibility. he were comical stoopid at times and an utter joke in the minds o' most o' the community. don't follow sharp_one's example.

be better.

HA! Good Fun!

 

Okay you do have a sense of humor, I was wrong 

[Gromnir]

48 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

All the while Buying stock in Remington, American Eagle, Springfield Armory, and Sturm Ruger. Just before the election I sell all my stocks then take a short position on everything I just sold. Then withdraw from the election, disappear from public life and spend the rest of my days screwing models on the beach of my private island! 

fatal flaw:  you would need run as a republican to pull off the stock buy while in office.

HA! Good Fun!

[Guard Dog]

17 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

fatal flaw:  you would need run as a republican to pull off the stock buy while in office.

HA! Good Fun!

Nah, there are always proxies. Many politicians retire far wealthier than the sum of all of their paychecks. Besides, don’t vex me with details while I’m dreaming of models and private islands! 

Edited August 1, 2021 by Guard Dog