Permanently borrowed spells fix?

[Not So Clever Hound]

Just a nice thought and thanks for @thelee who opened this thread as « hey guys is there any way someone can mod this out I don’t want to mess with my HUD » and 2 days later everybody is like « yay this is the new SoF but cheesier let’s go nuts! ». I feel like a plea wasn’t heard there   

[boareder]

3 hours ago, Boeroer said:

**** - too bad this comes to light so late. It would have been fun to read Josh's reaction to an ultimate run with this trick.

But I thought u couldn’t hire toons in Ultimate? This will make it a bit RNG on what spells u will get? Mmm... but maybe some battles will always have the same spells for you

[Boeroer]

7 hours ago, boareder said:

But I thought u couldn’t hire toons in Ultimate? This will make it a bit RNG on what spells u will get? Mmm... but maybe some battles will always have the same spells for you

That's correct. But as you can see in @Raven Darkholme's video all you need is the right enemy Priest with Salvation of Time (+ Barring Death's Door maybe).

Did anybody try what happens to those "abilities" when you export that character? Can you use premade characters for an Ultimate run?  

[Raven Darkholme]

8 hours ago, boareder said:

But I thought u couldn’t hire toons in Ultimate? This will make it a bit RNG on what spells u will get? Mmm... but maybe some battles will always have the same spells for you

You can look up on the wiki which characters have which spells, all named priests/druids/wizards are listed on their wiki page at the bottom and ofc you can also just type in generic enemy names like xaurip priest or whatever.

17 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

That's correct. But as you can see in @Raven Darkholme's video all you need is the right enemy Priest with Salvation of Time (+ Barring Death's Door maybe).

Did anybody try what happens to those "abilities" when you export that character? Can you use premade characters for an Ultimate run?  

I'll try to export later however I don't think you can import a char to the Ultimate since solo mode is enforced?

[Not So Clever Hound]

I'm trying to think about how to circumvent the PL0 bummer with spells stolen from non Wizard classes.

For example if you steal Watery Double from Tekehu specced as Watershaper, I would expect that the Duplicate scales appropriately with your character level regardless, and that it would be able to use its spells (Ondra's Whip, Boiling Spray, and Ocean Burst) at its full PL?

Sorry I'm asking questions and not testing for myself, I can't fire up the game at the moment. I'll try and test later.

[Raven Darkholme]

I just tested the premade character function (which I had no idea even allowed you to use exported chars and which does work in the ultimate) but you don't get your stolen spells with it, just a level 1 char with your char creation stats.

6 minutes ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

I'm trying to think about how to circumvent the PL0 bummer with spells stolen from non Wizard classes.

For example if you steal Watery Double from Tekehu specced as Watershaper, I would expect that the Duplicate scales appropriately with your character level regardless, and that it would be able to use its spells (Ondra's Whip, Boiling Spray, and Ocean Burst) at its full PL?

Sorry I'm asking questions and not testing for myself, I can't fire up the game at the moment. I'll try and test later.

I'll test a bit later when I'm back at my pc have to go now (unless someone beats me to it) but I think you'll only lose duration on summons.

[Not So Clever Hound]

OK I haven't stolen Watery Double specifically but I stole Lashing Vine. The summon indeed scales with Character level up to lvl20 and its abilities scale appropriately as well. So Watery Double will in all logic give uses of 3 offensive Watershaper spells with decent PL. (To friendly fire Major GI I've found the easy way is to hire a high level Assassin who hits you with Sap to create the Confused state and steal spells from your own toons).

I've just realized that you could steal Brilliant Departure, WoD... Infinite Concelhaut's Crushing Doom would be so hilarious to spam on the battlefield and have plenty of enemies just pummeled to death by a mob of flying giant hammers .

Edited June 5, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound

[Reent]

11 minutes ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

OK I haven't stolen Watery Double specifically but I stole Lashing Vine. The summon indeed scales with Character level up to lvl20 and its abilities scale appropriately as well. So Watery Double will in all logic give uses of 3 offensive Watershaper spells with decent PL. (To friendly fire Major GI I've found the easy way is to hire a high level Assassin who hits you with Sap to create the Confused state and steal spells from your own toons).

I've just realized that you could steal Brilliant Departure, WoD... Infinite Concelhaut's Crushing Doom would be so hilarious to spam on the battlefield and have plenty of enemies just pummeled to death by a mob of flying giant hammers .

Brilliant Departure is better in solo runs i'd say... is there an enemy you can steal it from?

In Party... do you really need invis for SC mage?

[Raven Darkholme]

1 hour ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

OK I haven't stolen Watery Double specifically but I stole Lashing Vine. The summon indeed scales with Character level up to lvl20 and its abilities scale appropriately as well. So Watery Double will in all logic give uses of 3 offensive Watershaper spells with decent PL. (To friendly fire Major GI I've found the easy way is to hire a high level Assassin who hits you with Sap to create the Confused state and steal spells from your own toons).

I've just realized that you could steal Brilliant Departure, WoD... Infinite Concelhaut's Crushing Doom would be so hilarious to spam on the battlefield and have plenty of enemies just pummeled to death by a mob of flying giant hammers .

I'll try Concelhaut and Arkemyr later, it would surprise me if you can't steal their unique spells.

58 minutes ago, Reent said:

Brilliant Departure is better in solo runs i'd say... is there an enemy you can steal it from?

In Party... do you really need invis for SC mage?

Not really you can avoidmost AoE spells with Invis including the infamous Arcane Dampener, that's as useful in a party as solo especially for the sigil megaboss.

edit:

holy **** this guy is a cheater and has ALL the spells:

https://pillarsofeternity.fandom.com/wiki/Arkemyr

 

also in case Concelhaut doesn't have it this guy has crushing doom:

https://pillarsofeternity.fandom.com/wiki/Iverra

edit2: I found a couple more who have doom, getting all the spells really should be np at all.

Edited June 5, 2021 by Raven Darkholme

[Kaylon]

If you import your old MC as a hireling with the highest level maybe it's possible to keep his abilities.

[Reent]

8 minutes ago, Raven Darkholme said:

I'll try Concelhaut and Arkemyr later, it would surprise me if you can't steal their unique spells.

Not really you can avoidmost AoE spells with Invis including the infamous Arcane Dampener, that's as useful in a party as solo especially for the sigil megaboss.

The sigil megaboss is... never a consideration for me, every single lvl 20 character of mine had no problem with him (okay, my assassin/psion had a little problem with the timing when to kill a sigil, since i did it too early, not lvl 20 and no consumables but a few potions)

most of the time it was "go in, use perma dots on the sigils (my FF could have just used FF until one of them is dead - ignoring the 2 bodyguards and the invulnerability, the encounter is a joke to him), kill the 2 Bodyguards, attack the sigils while reading, kill the boss, profit" as long as you have high sustain the fight is a joke - the only thing that can go wrong is killing the boss before the sigils, and if you have enough armor thats no problem too.

 

Arcane Dampener... many characters i play have very high resolve (35, my FFs, my chanters, my bloodmages... who needs high fort/reflex if you can shrug every CC off? no need for immunities either) thats no problem. (35 resolve is a gamechanger, form of the harmless beast is the only spell i found that had impact, everything else - NP)

In Party play i'd never rely on BDD - so its nice to not get arcane dampener, but there are enough ways to do it.

 

Never had to fear arcane dampener, more problem with "form of harmless beast", i need my armor to survive

But if you play in a way where its a problem, sure - get the "oh ****" ability, or if you want a naked character - who needs anything if you can simply become invis every other spell? Max dex and nothing is gonna happen to you.

[Raven Darkholme]

12 minutes ago, Reent said:

The sigil megaboss is... never a consideration for me, every single lvl 20 character of mine had no problem with him (okay, my assassin/psion had a little problem with the timing when to kill a sigil, since i did it too early, not lvl 20 and no consumables but a few potions)

most of the time it was "go in, use perma dots on the sigils (my FF could have just used FF until one of them is dead - ignoring the 2 bodyguards and the invulnerability, the encounter is a joke to him), kill the 2 Bodyguards, attack the sigils while reading, kill the boss, profit" as long as you have high sustain the fight is a joke - the only thing that can go wrong is killing the boss before the sigils, and if you have enough armor thats no problem too.

 

Arcane Dampener... many characters i play have very high resolve (35, my FFs, my chanters, my bloodmages... who needs high fort/reflex if you can shrug every CC off? no need for immunities either) thats no problem. (35 resolve is a gamechanger, form of the harmless beast is the only spell i found that had impact, everything else - NP)

In Party play i'd never rely on BDD - so its nice to not get arcane dampener, but there are enough ways to do it.

 

Never had to fear arcane dampener, more problem with "form of harmless beast", i need my armor to survive

But if you play in a way where its a problem, sure - get the "oh ****" ability, or if you want a naked character - who needs anything if you can simply become invis every other spell? Max dex and nothing is gonna happen to you.

I mean, obviously it depends on what class you play, but in my opinion stealing spells is most useful on single class wizard (sure there is some cool stuff you can steal with mc too) and for those dampener is really annoying.

Sure if you by all means want to be a wizard who doesn't use one specific wizard spell (invis) for the sole reason of ... not using it...

Then you could instead go max res or smth silly, if you really think thats more beneficial than simply using invis.

[Boeroer]

45 minutes ago, Raven Darkholme said:

also in case Concelhaut doesn't have it this guy has crushing doom:

https://pillarsofeternity.fandom.com/wiki/Iverra

That, my prosopagnostic friend, is a woman.  

[Reent]

Just now, Raven Darkholme said:

I mean, obviously it depends on what class you play, but in my opinion stealing spells is most useful on single class wizard (sure there is some cool stuff you can steal with mc too) and for those dampener is really annoying.

Sure if you by all means want to be a wizard who doesn't use one specific wizard spell (invis) for the sole reason of ... not using it...

Then you could instead go max res or smth silly, if you really think thats more beneficial than simply using invis.

why would the wizard cast invis if he has a party to defend him while he decimates his enemies in a heartbeat?

Its not the wizards job to stay alive, its the wizards job to kill every enemy before the melees can engage!

[Boeroer]

I reckon a fun spell to steal would be Shadowing Beyond from a Priest of Skaen. Unlimited uses, instant cast, no recovery, no much impact of lacking Power Level either. 

I also tried Thrust of Tattered Veil - just because having a 100% interrupt at hand that has 0.5 casting time could be nice. With Blade Cascade it becomes an interrupting machine gun which can't miss, hehe. Too bad it's only pierce dmg. But still fun and useful.  

[Raven Darkholme]

3 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

That, my prosopagnostic friend, is a woman.  

You never know these days!

2 minutes ago, Reent said:

why would the wizard cast invis if he has a party to defend him while he decimates his enemies in a heartbeat?

Its not the wizards job to stay alive, its the wizards job to kill every enemy before the melees can engage!

Because no one is stopping them?

[Boeroer]

2 minutes ago, Reent said:

why would the wizard cast invis if he has a party to defend him while he decimates his enemies in a heartbeat?

Its not the wizards job to stay alive, its the wizards job to kill every enemy before the melees can engage!

That's a rather short-sighted argument. As if every encounter would go the way one wants.

Also: If I could have invisibility without any drawbacks - why not use it (I mean besides cheese aversion of course)?
Then the party doesn't have "to defend him while he decimates his enemies" but can just do the same: decimate enemies. 

[Reent]

Just now, Raven Darkholme said:

You never know these days!

Because no one is stopping them?

damn useless party!

I knew why i play solo... (and why i love perma invis and plan on using a (almost) perma invis cipher in one run)

And now its time to test community patch+balance patch Bellower - do you know how many buffs my playstyle got in those "patches?" Its ridiculous! Who needs any exploits if he can install a balance patch and get everything (i normally use) buffed harharhar

[Raven Darkholme]

So the UI eventually bugs but I found an easy way to prevent it.

If you know beforehand what spells you wanna keep, just recast imprint without switching on getting an undesired spell.

I made a vid of Arkemyr losing all his spells and my bloated UI lol:

 

[Not So Clever Hound]

57 minutes ago, Raven Darkholme said:

So the UI eventually bugs but I found an easy way to prevent it.

If you know beforehand what spells you wanna keep, just recast imprint without switching on getting an undesired spell.

I made a vid of Arkemyr losing all his spells and my bloated UI lol

Love it! Someone clearly had a fun afternoon  now you can walk up to Auranic "so you think you're THE Arcane Lunatic? Lady I am the Arcane SPONGE!"

Edited June 5, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound

[Raven Darkholme]

It is official you can steal crushing doom from Concelhaut himself.

Another cheesy thing I found, that with Berath's challenge and brilliant departure + you can actually steal spells while invis, casting draining wall or stolen Sot does not break departure.

[Reent]

6 minutes ago, Raven Darkholme said:

It is official you can steal crushing doom from Concelhaut himself.

Another cheesy thing I found, that with Berath's challenge and brilliant departure + you can actually steal spells while invis, casting draining wall or stolen Sot does not break departure.

brilliant departure breaks from damage - so you can do quite some things with it, you can CC enemies while stealth (if you had charm/dominate spells you could have quite some fun)

If you get invis from different sources (is it possible to get shadowing beyond from priests?) it would break on spellcast.

[Raven Darkholme]

10 minutes ago, Reent said:

brilliant departure breaks from damage - so you can do quite some things with it, you can CC enemies while stealth (if you had charm/dominate spells you could have quite some fun)

If you get invis from different sources (is it possible to get shadowing beyond from priests?) it would break on spellcast.

Idk if there are npc priests with shadowing, but since you can steal departure from Arkemyr there is no real point, since it's superior anyway.

(Only rogues shadowing is interesting since it doesn't break on rogue dots)

[Reent]

1 minute ago, Raven Darkholme said:

Idk if there are npc priests with shadowing, but since you can steal departure from Arkemyr there is no real point, since it's superior anyway.

(Only rogues shadowing is interesting since it doesn't break on rogue dots)

damn, forgot that it breaks too :X

[thelee]

in case it hasn't come up in everyone's cheese finding, if you steal a spell of a class you are a part of (not just wizard, as mentioned upthread), after some save/load or some other kind of cycle, it gets removed from your action bar and enters your normal ability selection.

i thought i had magically resolved my permanent spells thing without needing unity console or cheats, but it just turned out all the druid spells i had stolen migrated into my ability bar. maybe that means i can respec them out?

Edited June 5, 2021 by thelee