The all things Political topic -In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie

[Gorth]

After all the sable rattling, time to let some of the air out of the balloon again. Biden's phone call seems to have provided an opening for de-escalation. At least a bit. Putin deciding that the 100.000 Russian troops at Ukraine's borders are better off in their barracks somewhere else in Russia. Ukraine seems to be less in a hurry to change status quo on the battlefield too. Maybe time for something as mundane as talking?

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56842763

"After weeks of tension over a build-up of Russian troops close to Ukraine's border, Russian Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu has ordered a number of units in the area back to their bases."

 

[BruceVC]

1 minute ago, Gorth said:

. Maybe time for something as mundane as talking?

 

 

 

Yes some good news as unnecessary tension over a country like Ukraine is never helpful for  a stable and prosperous world 

But  I always support dialogue and compromise as the best way forward under most circumstances related to these types of geopolitical issues 

[Guard Dog]

It looked him up. Apparently he’s Bill O’Reilly‘s replacement. I don’t have cable or satellite anymore. I have a Roku with Pluto, Amazon prime, Netflix, and season pass subscriptions to MLB and NHL. Fox News is nowhere on that list.

[Guard Dog]

More and more of the details of the police shooting of a black teenage girl in Columbus are coming out. This one does not appear to be following the narrative some folks seem to want it to. From what I just read the girl had a knife in her hand and was actively trying to kill two other girls.

[BruceVC]

4 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

It looked him up. Apparently he’s Bill O’Reilly‘s replacement. I don’t have cable or satellite anymore. I have a Roku with Pluto, Amazon prime, Netflix, and season pass subscriptions to MLB and NHL. Fox News is nowhere on that list.

Oh sorry I thought you were joking when you said you didnt know him, Carlson is a very famous Fox News commentator and is well known for many controversial comments and often is involved in  opinion journalism 

[BruceVC]

5 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

More and more of the details of the police shooting of a black teenage girl in Columbus are coming out. This one does not appear to be following the narrative some folks seem to want it to. From what I just read the girl had a knife in her hand and was actively trying to kill two other girls.

Yes, this was the link I posted earlier about people immediately protesting and making demands  without waiting if the shooting was legitimate 

[Guard Dog]

4 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Oh sorry I thought you were joking when you said you didnt know him, Carlson is a very famous Fox News commentator and is well known for many controversial comments and often is involved in  opinion journalism 

Ever since I gave up DIRECTV I am in some thing of a news vacuum. I have a couple of newspaper and magazine subscriptions on my Kindle. That tends to be my primary source of news other than SiriusXM. Are used to get the Memphis newspaper the commercial appeal delivered daily. Then it became Sundays only. And they abandoned delivery in my area altogether. Sometimes I feel like a dinosaur about neckdeep in the tar pit and only now realizing it.

Edited April 22, 2021 by Guard Dog

[Malcador]

22 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

More and more of the details of the police shooting of a black teenage girl in Columbus are coming out. This one does not appear to be following the narrative some folks seem to want it to. From what I just read the girl had a knife in her hand and was actively trying to kill two other girls.

Was pretty clear from the bodycam video, cop shooting her was acceptable. Have seen a lot of talking heads on CNN, etc. say it's unfortunate but was a crap situation all around.  Although it's funny how quickly the bodycam video came out in this case

Edited April 22, 2021 by Malcador

[rjshae]

7 hours ago, Skarpen said:

Dude, that's 1/6 of the total. One should burn it with fire

I think what he had more in mind is changing the system and organization of police. To be honest the way police is "organized" in USA is bonkers. It wouldn't be called police by a standard western country. 

Most western countries have more stringent gun control measures than in the USA, so policing here is inevitably different. I wouldn't say it's "bonkers"; it's at least partly a response to the threat model. That being said, I don't think it would be harmful for the USA police departments to take a good long look at how they are enforcing the law and see if elements of foreign approaches would be beneficial in terms of reducing gun deaths.

[BruceVC]

4 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Was pretty clear from the bodycam video, cop shooting her was acceptable. Have seen a lot of talking heads on CNN, etc. say it's unfortunate but was a crap situation all around.  Although it's funny how quickly the bodycam video came out in this case

No its not funny at all, this was just a case of a legitimate shooting so the Police wanted to set the record straight 

[Gromnir]

14 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

More and more of the details of the police shooting of a black teenage girl in Columbus are coming out. This one does not appear to be following the narrative some folks seem to want it to. From what I just read the girl had a knife in her hand and was actively trying to kill two other girls.

we get reflexive pushback from a few posters. whatever. however, one o' the wackier instances we recall were the resistance we got when we observed how following any police shooting or police incident where a person were serious injured, there were no harm in waiting a bit for facts to emerge. frequent the facts change, but once the narrative is established, people find it difficult to change their conclusions.

is always best to wait. even if the outrage feels complete justified, eyewitness accounts and even video may be misleading.

and no, am not suggesting wait for months or years. were never the claim. however, it takes more than a few hours or days to investigate many tragedies and is hardly a suprise when new video emerges which severe undercuts assumptions arrived at 'cause o' earlier eyewitness testimony or shaky iphone video recordings. 

if people feel outrage, their outrage will be no less valid or impactful if they wait for a week. wait for investigations and still feel outrage? good for you; is your right as an american to be outraged whether that outrage is justified or not. nevertheless, am not seeing a downside to waiting for facts, waiting for proverbial smoke to clear. 

how many celebs and pundits insta jumped to jussie smollett defense? some o' those supporters reversed course when new facts emerged, but others refused to do so 'cause doing so undermined the more important and overreaching narrative.

HA! Good Fun!

[Malcador]

1 minute ago, BruceVC said:

No its not funny at all, this was just a case of a legitimate shooting so the Police wanted to set the record straight 

There is the humour.

 

[Guard Dog]

18 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Was pretty clear from the bodycam video, cop shooting her was acceptable. Have seen a lot of talking heads on CNN, etc. say it's unfortunate but was a crap situation all around.  Although it's funny how quickly the bodycam video came out in this case

No kidding on that last count. If the body cam footage makes the police look bad they are extremely reluctant to give it up. Usually they would have to go to court and fight like hell to get it then go back to court and fight like hell to get an unedited version of it.

[Gromnir]

2 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

No kidding on that last count. If the body cam footage makes the police look bad they are extremely reluctant to give it up. Usually they would have to go to court and fight like hell to get it then go back to court and fight like hell to get an unedited version of it.

video were released almost immediate.

is best to be cautious o' terms such as "usually," as is same kinda narrative supporting assumption you might believe you is opposed to. believe something is true is not same as true.

less a matter o' da or local police releasing video has been the problem o' cops "accidental" or purposeful turning off their body cam devices. not as prevalent an issue today, but it were a problem for some time.

am knowing is impractical for technical reasons, and cops would never agree anyways, but am recalling the recent watchmen tv show where the imagined alt-universe tulsa police officer in episode one needed to get permission to unlock his weapon. we couldn't help but wonder if the mysterious lingering body cam failures would diminish if police officers were unauthorized to unholster their firearms unless they first made sure their bodycams were active recording.

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

 

[Malcador]

I thought that footage was released this month, whereas the incident occurred in December 2020

[Guard Dog]

I remember reading his lawyer had to go to court to get that body cam footage released. The police were less than cooperative it first. Don’t know if that’s the straight scoop but it is what I’ve read in multiple places.

The soldier could’ve handled the stop a little better. The two cops could’ve handled it a hell of a lot better. But the most damning part of all is they lied about him assaulting them when they opened the door. And then made it even worse by trying to bargain with him after the fact promising not to press charges for an assault that never happened if he didn’t file a complaint against them. You could almost make up an excuse for every other part of their actions but there is no getting around lying about a false charge.

Edited April 22, 2021 by Guard Dog

[BruceVC]

11 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

video were released almost immediate.

is best to be cautious o' terms such as "usually," as is same kinda narrative supporting assumption you might believe you is opposed to. believe something is true is not same as true.

less a matter o' da or local police releasing video has been the problem o' cops "accidental" or purposeful turning off their body cam devices. not as prevalent an issue today, but it were a problem for some time.

am knowing is impractical for technical reasons, and cops would never agree anyways, but am recalling the recent watchmen tv show where the imagined alt-universe tulsa police officer in episode one needed to get permission to unlock his weapon. we couldn't help but wonder if the mysterious lingering body cam failures would diminish if police officers were unauthorized to unholster their firearms unless they first made sure their bodycams were active recording.

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

 

Gromnir have you ever been pulled over while driving by the Police and if so how were you treated ?

[Gromnir]

3 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

I remember reading that army lieutenant  stopper in Virginia, his lawyer had to go to court to get the police video that has now made both his client and the two cops Internet famous. Ivory watched it a couple of times. The truth is the soldier could have handled the stop a little bit better. The two cops of course could’ve handled it a hell of a lot better. But the two most damning parts were both cops lying about him assaulting them and then promising him not to press charges for a crime he did not commit if he didn’t file a complaint against them. You could almost make an excuse for every other part of that stop but lying about an assault and then trying to barter with a criminal charge that was unlawful there’s just no excuse. And without the body cam footage no one ever knows.

the video requested by media were released immediate. this were not a wide known issue until recent. obvious there need be some kinda process for releasing the videos on request, and get fully unedited w/o viewing in camera by a judge is stoopid, 'cause who knows what info is gonna be on tape which makes innocent bystanders look bad or has views o' cop computer screens showing personal info for people involved  or mere tangential related to the incident in question.

says a attorney had to go to court is misleading.  fill out a form. make a request. wait some reasonable time for video which blurs out personal identifying info unrelated to events. typical.

don't make assumptions or apply generalities. wait. get details.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Hurlshort]

I heard a good interview this morning on Howard Stern with Jon Stewart. I'm pretty sure it was a re-run, but I thought it was well thought out: https://people.com/tv/jon-stewart-on-daily-show-improvements-diversity-inclusion/

Basically, it talks about the importance of systematic change. The Chauvin verdict is good because it hold an officer accountable for use of force that resulted in death, but what we really need is systematic change. That is what the guy was trying to get at in the Tucker Carlson interview as well.  

[Skarpen]

55 minutes ago, rjshae said:

Most western countries have more stringent gun control measures than in the USA, so policing here is inevitably different. I wouldn't say it's "bonkers"; it's at least partly a response to the threat model. That being said, I don't think it would be harmful for the USA police departments to take a good long look at how they are enforcing the law and see if elements of foreign approaches would be beneficial in terms of reducing gun deaths.

I don't think the gun control measures are making the difference here. What I see as bonkers is that looking at the police force in other countries the police force is the same in all of the country. No matter if it's a small village, big city, highway, jail, you name it they are all part of the same police force that on the highest levels answer to appropriate ministry (like Ministry of Internal Affairs in Poland) and then to Prime minister or President (depends on the country) whichever is the head of Government in said country. What that does is you know that this officer had the same standards of entering the force, he follows the same laws and procedures as all the other cops you can encounter. This means the standard is uphold across the country and that every police officer is accountable for his actions and you can make complaint to a higher power even if his local superiors don't take your complaint into account.

If I understand correctly, that is not the case in US. Basically every sheriff, precinct, city police is somewhat of an lonely island with their own rules, protocols and habits. They work more like the municipal force, which, for example, Poland and other western countries also have but municipal don't have the same power, equipment etc. and they don't deal with serious issues. Municipal is relegated to basic things like fining people for littering or parking tickets. 

For example Mayor of LA can dictate to LAPD chief something, which cannot occur in other countries because even though there is a police chief in a city he follows different chain of commands that is separate from local government. 

That's what I see as bonkers in the way police is organized in US in comparison to other western countries. Also some stupid things like qualified immunity or that the court (SC? I don't remember) ruled that police is not obligated to serve and protect strike me as bonkers.

Edited April 22, 2021 by Skarpen

[Guard Dog]

3 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

the video requested by media were released immediate. this were not a wide known issue until recent. obvious there need be some kinda process for releasing the videos on request, and get fully unedited w/o viewing in camera by a judge is stoopid, 'cause who knows what info is gonna be on tape which makes innocent bystanders look bad or has views o' cop computer screens showing personal info for people involved  or mere tangential related to the incident in question.

says a attorney had to go to court is misleading.  fill out a form. make a request. wait some reasonable time for video which blurs out personal identifying info unrelated to events. typical.

don't make assumptions or apply generalities. wait. get details.

HA! Good Fun!

 

Ah, gotcha 

[Guard Dog]

2 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

 

If I understand correctly, that is not the case in US. Basically every sheriff, precinct, city police is somewhat of an lonely island with their own rules, protocols and habits. They work more like the municipal force, which, for example, Poland and other western countries also have but municipal don't have the same power, equipment etc. and they don't deal with serious issues. Municipal is relegated to basic things like fining people for littering or parking tickets. 

For example Mayor of LA can dictate to LAPD chief something, which cannot occur in other countries because even though there is a police chief in a city he follows different chain of commands that is separate from local government. 

That's what I see as bonkers in the way police is organized in US in comparison to other western countries.

This is mostly true but there is not as much latitude as you seem to think. The police of every jurisdiction have to abide by the law of the US government, the state they’re in, and any municipality they fall under. They have different priorities and are able to use slightly different methods but in general with the exception of some details they all operate very similarly. And mostly work together pretty well.

for example, I live in Tipton County. So my police force is the Tipton County sheriffs department. However the city of Covington has its own Police Department. So the police department of Covington has jurisdiction within the city limits. Outside of that it’s the sheriffs department.

[Skarpen]

1 minute ago, Guard Dog said:

This is mostly true but there is not as much latitude as you seem to think. The police of every jurisdiction have to abide by the law of the US government, the state they’re in, and any municipality they fall under. They have different priorities and are able to use slightly different methods but in general with the exception of some details they all operate very similarly. And mostly work together pretty well.

Then why is there even a discussion about police if they work so well? Sure, all of them have to abide and enforce the US law but I think the issue is not what but how. Maybe there is an issue in those slightly differences and priorities they can differ in? You know small differences in input can lead to extreme differences in outcomes.

[Gromnir]

4 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Gromnir have you ever been pulled over while driving by the Police and if so how were you treated ?

have been pulled over multiple times.

first time evar were a speeding thing where we were going 52 in a 45mph zone. were a legit stop but we were kinda annoyed. cop came to window, which we needed manual roll down 'cause we were driving a 78 cherokee jeep. we asked cop for a double-cheeseburger, onion rings and a large dr. pepper. cop actual smiled a bit, but we still got a ticket. daytime. suburban neighborhood. no problems.

other times were a bit more scary and worst were not being pulled over while driving but cops stopping us as we walked through a nice neighborhood in the bay area at 2am. we became agitated 'cause cops were demanding info they were not privy to as a mater o' law and but for a soopercop's partner stepping in to intervene, am thinking we woulda' been arrested... and as we were a scholarship athlete at Cal at the time, things coulda' gone very bad for us. learned a valuable lesson that day and realized being right were less consequential than being cautious. no more smarty responses from Gromnir when dealing with cops.

had a distinct uptick in stoopid traffic stops after we got the bmw x5. our driving behavior didn't change, but somehow a minority male driving a so-called luxury (piece o' crap)  suv at 3am (when we typical went to our gym) often with our hoodie up 'cause o' damp post workout hair, attracted police attention. we followed all instructions, no matter how ridiculous, to letter and made no jokes and were as polite as human possible. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

[ShadySands]

1 hour ago, Guard Dog said:

Ever since I gave up DIRECTV I am in some thing of a news vacuum. I have a couple of newspaper and magazine subscriptions on my Kindle. That tends to be my primary source of news other than SiriusXM. Are used to get the Memphis newspaper the commercial appeal delivered daily. Then it became Sundays only. And they abandoned delivery in my area altogether. Sometimes I feel like a dinosaur about neckdeep in the tar pit and only now realizing it.

You're not missing much

If you're interested in Tucker and if not it's an easy skip