A Fifth of Coronavirus

[Guard Dog]

16 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

just out of curiosity, what is it about wearing a mask which offends you? from our pov is a minor inconvenience, but am knowing some persons have.... philosophical reservations. 

am not gonna reply, so feel free to respond sans judgement, but am genuine interested to hear what evokes such a reaction ("Well… I am NOT going to do it.") to cdc guidance in light o' the transmissibility o' the delta variant and the current (as well as projected) increases in hospitalizations and deaths. spreads asymptomatic, so...

obviously is no need to explain self, but am admitted curious.

HA! Good Fun!

Nothing at all. If you’ve got to do it you’ve got to do it. Before I got vaccinated I put the damn thing on whenever I went in the store. After I got my second shot I stopped wearing it. So now they’re suggesting we put them on again. Well my interaction with the other humans is really minimal these days. The Kroger in town has started grocery delivery which is freaking awesome. Tractor supply will do curbside pick up, order online and you don’t even have to go in. Those are about the only two brick and mortar stores I ever visit. The only time I’ve even left my house this month was to go cut the grass on my vacant lots.

I was trying to be humorous. It wasn’t a comment so much on having to put the mask back on as it was not having anywhere to wear it.

Edit: The post office. That is the one building I do have to go in two or three times a week. There’s no mail delivery where I live. So I have a PO Box in town. So yes when I go pick up my mail I’ll put the mask back on then. The vets office too. But not so regular.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Guard Dog

[Gorth]

So, just to recap.

The quarantine arrangements, which are the federal governments responsibility has been shown to be completely not working for 12 months. Facilities are there, that could be used, but they aren't

The vaccine supply and distribution is the responsibility of the federal government, has been shown to be completely not working for 12 months. Australia is currently rock bottom amongst OECD countries.

 

This means, Australia is completely unable to handle a major outbreak one were to happen. Guess what? Yes, the federal governments local party branch in NSW has the "honour" of completely losing control of the situation and is now panicking. So is the federal government by the way. Not that they give a **** about Australians, but it will hopefully get them wiped off the map at the next election.

 

The "geniouses" in the NSW government spent most of the last year mocking the other states for doing snap lockdowns of 5 days each, in order to cover for the federal governments constant **** ups. Most of their contributions being to tell other states how stupid they are and such measures aren't needed. Now they managed to completely lose control after it happened in their own backyard and nobody else in Australia has any sympathy for their plight. More like gloating, except people are now dying again because of their mismanagement. Besides the federal government wanting to seize what vaccines the other states have and redistribute them to their fellow party members, they are also digging into the national treasury to support NSW financially (something other states didn't get, when suffering from the federal governments constant failures).

 

The NSW government's solution? Well, they have encouraged their own population very loudly so far, to resist lockdown measures, social distancing, mask wearing etc. and now they have decided to do a hard lockdown of an indeterminate duration. Not only that, because they "educated" the local population so well, nobody listens to them talking about lockdown measures, so now the army has been called in to keep them in check.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-58021718

"Covid in Sydney: Military deployed to help enforce lockdown"

 

Way to go Liberal Party. I've mentioned it before, Australia is really a third world country in so many ways. Hard not to think of the term Banana Republic when describing it. That would be insulting to bananas though, and the QLD bananas are great...

Honest Government Ads have made a new video about the subject, I'll see if I can find and share it when it becomes available to the public (currently available as an audio preview on their Patreon page)

[BruceVC]

32 minutes ago, Gorth said:

So, just to recap.

The quarantine arrangements, which are the federal governments responsibility has been shown to be completely not working for 12 months. Facilities are there, that could be used, but they aren't

The vaccine supply and distribution is the responsibility of the federal government, has been shown to be completely not working for 12 months. Australia is currently rock bottom amongst OECD countries.

 

This means, Australia is completely unable to handle a major outbreak one were to happen. Guess what? Yes, the federal governments local party branch in NSW has the "honour" of completely losing control of the situation and is now panicking. So is the federal government by the way. Not that they give a **** about Australians, but it will hopefully get them wiped off the map at the next election.

 

The "geniouses" in the NSW government spent most of the last year mocking the other states for doing snap lockdowns of 5 days each, in order to cover for the federal governments constant **** ups. Most of their contributions being to tell other states how stupid they are and such measures aren't needed. Now they managed to completely lose control after it happened in their own backyard and nobody else in Australia has any sympathy for their plight. More like gloating, except people are now dying again because of their mismanagement. Besides the federal government wanting to seize what vaccines the other states have and redistribute them to their fellow party members, they are also digging into the national treasury to support NSW financially (something other states didn't get, when suffering from the federal governments constant failures).

 

The NSW government's solution? Well, they have encouraged their own population very loudly so far, to resist lockdown measures, social distancing, mask wearing etc. and now they have decided to do a hard lockdown of an indeterminate duration. Not only that, because they "educated" the local population so well, nobody listens to them talking about lockdown measures, so now the army has been called in to keep them in check.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-58021718

"Covid in Sydney: Military deployed to help enforce lockdown"

 

Way to go Liberal Party. I've mentioned it before, Australia is really a third world country in so many ways. Hard not to think of the term Banana Republic when describing it. That would be insulting to bananas though, and the QLD bananas are great...

Honest Government Ads have made a new video about the subject, I'll see if I can find and share it when it becomes available to the public (currently available as an audio preview on their Patreon page)

It really doesnt seem like Oz is handling the pandemic very well or that the various states understand the virus

When you say "The NSW government's solution? Well, they have encouraged their own population very loudly so far, to resist lockdown measures, social distancing, mask wearing etc. and now they have decided to do a hard lockdown of an indeterminate duration" 

Do you have any links that support this type of globally known  unacceptable and unscientific approach, I mean when the NSW government is suggesting people dont wear masks and ignore social distancing? This  should be seen as criminal negligence because this attitude from any authorities leads to deaths and the virus spreading?

But the biggest issue in Australia seems to be the failure to get citizens vaccinated and or provide vaccines as you mentioned and that is also a real failure of any government 

[BruceVC]

On 7/27/2021 at 6:18 PM, Guard Dog said:

Nothing at all. If you’ve got to do it you’ve got to do it. Before I got vaccinated I put the damn thing on whenever I went in the store. After I got my second shot I stopped wearing it. So now they’re suggesting we put them on again. Well my interaction with the other humans is really minimal these days. The Kroger in town has started grocery delivery which is freaking awesome. Tractor supply will do curbside pick up, order online and you don’t even have to go in. Those are about the only two brick and mortar stores I ever visit. The only time I’ve even left my house this month was to go cut the grass on my vacant lots.

I was trying to be humorous. It wasn’t a comment so much on having to put the mask back on as it was not having anywhere to wear it.

Edit: The post office. That is the one building I do have to go in two or three times a week. There’s no mail delivery where I live. So I have a PO Box in town. So yes when I go pick up my mail I’ll put the mask back on then. The vets office too. But not so regular.

GD unfortunately Tennessee is one of the states in the US that is not handing the pandemic and general vaccinations very well. I was watching an interview on CNN last night where doctors in Tennessee were saying how overwhelmed various hospitals are and 95 % of people who die are unvaccinated and simply have refused to believe in the efficacy of  vaccines. And the saddest part of this is they  want the vaccines when they are critical but of course its too late

Here is a link that discusses one of current virus problems in your state 

https://news.yahoo.com/rising-covid-19-cases-could-084300833.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

Here is a more worrying link that discusses that only 38 % of people are fully vaccinated, only 38 % !!!

https://www.nashvillescene.com/news/citylimits/tennessee-contends-with-low-vaccination-rates-and-republican-demagoguery/article_397dd7b0-e354-11eb-9012-e3251d722cb6.html

[Gorth]

2 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Do you have any links that support this type of globally known  unacceptable and unscientific approach, I mean when the NSW government is suggesting people dont wear masks and ignore social distancing? This  should be seen as criminal negligence because this attitude from any authorities leads to deaths and the virus spreading?

I can't link to any direct quotes, because they never said it directly (afaik). Just 12 months of constant criticism of the other state PM's in the media for enforcing mask rules and doing snap lockdowns (to prevent lengthy lockdowns down the road). If you repeat a message often enough, people think you actually stand for what you say and that forcing people to wear masks and do lockdowns is a bad idea.

 

Edit: And yes, I the failure is first and foremost on a federal level because of the complete lack of a program to handle travelers entering Australia (something local state PM's have no jurisdiction over) and the completely ****ed up vaccine situation. But, unlike when Australia was burning down to the ground, there is no option for Scott Morrison to just put his family on a plane and flee to Hawaii (to go on "vacation" while things comes crashing down back home).

 

Edit2: To compound the issue, there are not even *signs*, that the federal government is trying to fix any of their many mistakes.  Neither the quarantine situation nor the vaccine situation.

[Skarpen]

Wearing masks outside and lockdowns being effective was debunked months ago. Why do people still push this paranoia?

Latest from UK

 http://www.dailynews.lk/2021/07/28/world/255059/falling-cases-uk-baffle-scientists

Edited July 30, 2021 by Skarpen

[Gorth]

Just now, Skarpen said:

Wearing masks outside and lockdowns being effective was debunked months ago. Why do people still push this paranoia?

Latest from UK

 http://www.dailynews.lk/2021/07/28/world/255059/falling-cases-uk-baffle-scientists

Who said anything about masks outside? And please... not even going to click a link to daily fail. About as trustworthy as Fox News, which means not at all. If that is the source of your debunk that is, you need to find better. It's worked for 12 months without fail down under. The only reason it didn't work this time was because a local government decided to believe that kind of crap (the same position which also failed miserably in Sweden, hence why the other Nordic countries closed their borders to Sweden, no idea if they've reopened them since) More likely, but that's my own speculation, business interests pushed them to *not* do a lockdown this time, when the federal quarantine system failed yet again (something it's been doing at least once a month the last 12 months). The reason the lockdown didn't work this time was, they didn't do a lockdown. Only now, after the bird left the cage and it's to late to fix it easily, did they realize that their not so bright ideas might come back to bite them.

 

[Gfted1]

*a new challenger enters the ring against AUS*

Texas Governor Bans Mask Mandates as Republicans Embrace Death and Disease.

[Gorth]

2 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

*a new challenger enters the ring against AUS*

Texas Governor Bans Mask Mandates as Republicans Embrace Death and Disease.

Can they issue the death penalty for politicians that deliberately kill people (outside of stuff like war etc.)?

 

Edit: After all, if they are so keen on getting people killed, they should really appreciate experiencing it themselves.

[Gfted1]

2 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Can they issue the death penalty for politicians that deliberately kill people (outside of stuff like war etc.)?

You would think it would at least fall under "depraved indifference" or something like that, but I dont think so. Maybe our resident lawyer will have more insight.

[BruceVC]

https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/cdc-report-covid-delta-variant-can-spread-easily-chickenpox

Here is some worrying news about the Delta variant and future variants, apparently the US CDC is going to announce this shortly

But basically the takeaways are 

• Vaccinated people spread the virus the same as unvaccinated people so masks and social distancing  are still critical preventative measures
• This Delta variant is more transmissible than the common cold
• Vaccines are still the solution as they prevent severe sickness and deaths

So in summary, as much as we dont like the idea, we should all keep wearing masks because of reality of the danger of variants 

[BruceVC]

13 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Can they issue the death penalty for politicians that deliberately kill people (outside of stuff like war etc.)?

 

Edit: After all, if they are so keen on getting people killed, they should really appreciate experiencing it themselves.

I know this isnt Constitutionally possible in any of our countries but politicians suggesting and legally stopping mask wearing should be prosecuted for something because of how this leads to deaths and severe Corona symptoms 

[BruceVC]

13 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

You would think it would at least fall under "depraved indifference" or something like that, but I dont think so. Maybe our resident lawyer will have more insight.

Please dont bring lawyers into this discussion, they just confuse people with big words and complicated  historical legal precedent that no one understands 

It should be simple, every government in the world needs to mandate mask wearing where appropriate and vaccines should be mandatory for every citizen

And why should they be mandatory? Its because of the point I raised about 2 months ago. The only Constitutional issue shouldnt be " do you have right to say no to vaccines " but rather " do you have a right to make other people sick " 

[Skarpen]

25 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Can they issue the death penalty for politicians that deliberately kill people (outside of stuff like war etc.)?

Yes, please. Over 100.000 non covid related deaths above yearly average in Poland, because of lockdown and closing of health services. This should qualify for death penalty. 

[Skarpen]

20 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

vaccines should be mandatory for every citizen

Legislature exists, at least in most west countries. Just add it to the list... and yet no government is willing to do it. They rather resort to unlawful restrictions for people that don't do non mandatory vaccination. 

Why? Simple:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/science/2017/feb/09/ministers-lose-fight-to-stop-payouts-in-swine-flu-jab-narcolepsy-cases

They don't want to take responsibility. Right now if someone does get sick they can say "Well, it wasn't mandatory. Not our problem." And they wonder why PPL don't trust them. 

[Zoraptor]

4 hours ago, Gorth said:

The vaccine supply and distribution is the responsibility of the federal government, has been shown to be completely not working for 12 months. Australia is currently rock bottom amongst OECD countries.

Australia, rock bottom amongst OECD countries? Bloody Ockers, always trying to steal New Zealand's thunder. We may be slightly ahead in terms of full vaccinations doses thanks to going all Pfizer, but Aus is ahead in total doses/ capita.

Kind of sad seeing Sydney's troubles, even if Gladys is so extremely unlikeable that you kind of want something mildly unpleasant to happen to her on principle. Must be wishing they'd locked down when the limo driver got infected despite the embarrassment that would have had, same as Fiji must wish they'd done it despite it potentially causing them problems.

I've said it before, but I do have some sympathy for Scovid over the vaccine situation. No way to predict that the hatchet job on Astra Zeneca would be so effective, and the low vaccination rate can also be blamed on ATAGI contributing to the AZ FUD- which looks potentially very short sighted now, and they're meant to be actual experts rather than politicians. Them basing all their thinking on Australia always being covid free was naive. Our back up plan is the 4 million J&J doses we have, and we specifically haven't had our advisory board telling people those should only be given to over 60s for the last 8 months unlike ATAGI.

[Gorth]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

So in summary, as much as we dont like the idea, we should all keep wearing masks because of reality of the danger of variants 

Or get used to having your annual covid vaccine shot for the next 300 years...

Edit: I have no idea, but @Zoraptor may know some typical figures for how long it takes humans to adapt to new diseases and co-exist so to speak. No idea what the guy does for a living, but I suspect his knowledge of virology and dna/rna is more than just casual.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, Gorth said:

Can they issue the death penalty for politicians that deliberately kill people (outside of stuff like war etc.)?

Regardless of whether they can or not, here in Texas they won't. More likely a person would get the death sentence for having or providing an abortion.

At this point though I think it's hilarious, the last time this happened (in response to the Houston mask mandate) it lasted for maybe a month before things got so bad the Governor had to reverse his stance and do a mask mandate. I think that the same thing will happen again, probably with more brazenly authoritarian stuff to get the law n order dip****s on board.

[Zoraptor]

1 hour ago, Gorth said:

Edit: I have no idea, but @Zoraptor may know some typical figures for how long it takes humans to adapt to new diseases and co-exist so to speak. No idea what the guy does for a living, but I suspect his knowledge of virology and dna/rna is more than just casual.

I've done a related subject to Masters level and done some epidemiology and modelling, but I'm not a virologist.

The general rule is that pathogens get less deadly but more infectious as time goes on. It's very much a general rule though. I'd be reticent about making any predictions about how long or if this coronavirus will go into the background like the common cold coronaviruses- and it also has to be pointed out that despite the general rule it appears that delta is both more infectious and is worse/ deadlier.

[213374U]

3 hours ago, Gorth said:

Who said anything about masks outside? And please... not even going to click a link to daily fail. About as trustworthy as Fox News, which means not at all. If that is the source of your debunk that is, you need to find better. It's worked for 12 months without fail down under. The only reason it didn't work this time was because a local government decided to believe that kind of crap (the same position which also failed miserably in Sweden, hence why the other Nordic countries closed their borders to Sweden, no idea if they've reopened them since) More likely, but that's my own speculation, business interests pushed them to *not* do a lockdown this time, when the federal quarantine system failed yet again (something it's been doing at least once a month the last 12 months). The reason the lockdown didn't work this time was, they didn't do a lockdown. Only now, after the bird left the cage and it's to late to fix it easily, did they realize that their not so bright ideas might come back to bite them.

I think the borders between Nordics and Sweden are open now, yes. A friend of mine who lives in Norway recently traveled there (non-essential) and told me she didn't have to remain in quarantine. I think it's region-based at the moment, looking at daily cases and all that.

That's not a Daily Mail link, btw. It's a Sri Lankan government-owned paper with no obvious links to the Viscount Rothermere. And as a curiosity, masks outside were mandatory here until this month.

[BruceVC]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/australia-covid-sydney-in-lockdown-national-borders-closed-and-hardly-anyone-vaccinated-how-long-can-the-country-go-on/ar-AALvKMj

@Gorth

So your PM  " plan " is to now keep  borders closed until 80 % of people are vaccinated but only  4%  of Oz citizens have been  fully vaccinated .....I can understand the frustration at this inept approach considering how late it is, the link I posted was also discussed now on international news channels.

I will  be surprised if he stays in power ...dont you guys vote out your PM fairly regularly ? Sorry about this, I would have expected something much better from a developed country that is considered " first " world. 

[Hurlshort]

This morning I caught a football player on the news talking about how he is 'evaluating' the vaccine. https://www.sfgate.com/49ers/article/Nick-Bosa-still-hasn-t-decided-on-whether-he-s-16350480.php

So here is a guy who listens to his coach about how to play football, listens to his trainers about how to stay in shape, and listens to his agents about signing contracts. But a pandemic hits and suddenly he is Mr. Science, and he needs to evaluate instead of listening to the experts.

[rjshae]

An Outbreak Of The Coronavirus Delta Variant Has Spread To 15 Chinese Cities

Now we may see how efficacious (or not) the Sinovac and Sinopharm will prove to be. Then again they'll probably just hide the data.

[Zoraptor]

We know how effective they are since there have been independent studies of them (eg Chile). They're the least effective class but the best vaccine during a pandemic is the one that's available, and reducing hospital admissions by 85% is more than worthwhile. They're also an order of magnitude cheaper than the mRNA vaccines.

Should also be said that 'effectiveness' depends a lot on metrics. The reason the advice on masks has changed again in the US is because the gold standards likely aren't stopping enough vaccinated people becoming infectious, so from that perspective they aren't effective either.

[BruceVC]

8 hours ago, rjshae said:

An Outbreak Of The Coronavirus Delta Variant Has Spread To 15 Chinese Cities

Now we may see how efficacious (or not) the Sinovac and Sinopharm will prove to be. Then again they'll probably just hide the data.

The reality is  Corona came from China but it was accidently released on the world. China is responsible for this particular virus and needs to accept that instead of obfuscating the truth and attempting some weak and unconvincing " its the USA fault, virus came from Maryland lab " conspiracy theory 

SA is getting one of the Sinopharm vaccines, its the only one that has been tested outside of China sufficiently by countries like  Chile and Turkey and according to their health departments its about 70 % effective against one of the major variants...I cant remember what one?  I wouldnt trust anything that comes from the CCP about the virus but I trust these countries. We still getting other vaccines as our majority but the Sinopharm vaccines are a backup 

However their are questions now being raised about the Sinopharm vaccines with the latest outbreak in China, caused  by a plane from Russia and the cleaning staff not following virus procedures ....if you believe the CCP version. So its about all their vaccines and their  Delta variant  efficacy 

Lets wait and see but you right. Its unlikely we will know the truth anyway from China 

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by BruceVC