What you've done today - The Edge of Night

[Malcador]

Noticed that Notepad++ got a dark mode, so that has made my day.

[Guard Dog]

I’ve been in a real funk lately. I didn’t even realize how bad until I happened to look at the date on my laptop. I was completely stunned we are so late into June now. I was guessing we were somewhere around the 17th. Well plus I’m averaging about six hours of sleep every two days, and not continuous at that. That certainly doesn’t help. In the past I could defeat insomnia with bourbon. I’m finding melatonin to be much less effective now that I’ve given up that particular vice. 
 

on the upshot I have gotten a lot of reading done. Five books in four weeks cover to cover.

[BruceVC]

36 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

I’ve been in a real funk lately. I didn’t even realize how bad until I happened to look at the date on my laptop. I was completely stunned we are so late into June now. I was guessing we were somewhere around the 17th. Well plus I’m averaging about six hours of sleep every two days, and not continuous at that. That certainly doesn’t help. In the past I could defeat insomnia with bourbon. I’m finding melatonin to be much less effective now that I’ve given up that particular vice. 
 

on the upshot I have gotten a lot of reading done. Five books in four weeks cover to cover.

GD you have battled with insomnia for years it seems like, what are your symptoms around this ?

Do you find your thoughts race and then you cant sleep, do you find you not tired? How would you describe the reasons you cannot sleep and is it worse in a certain place, for example do you find you sleep fine when you go camping ?

[Gfted1]

Sounds like he needs three fingers of bourbon. I kid, I kid.

[Guard Dog]

13 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

GD you have battled with insomnia for years it seems like, what are your symptoms around this ?

Do you find your thoughts race and then you cant sleep, do you find you not tired? How would you describe the reasons you cannot sleep and is it worse in a certain place, for example do you find you sleep fine when you go camping ?

It’s hard to describe. It’s like you’re exhausted but not sleepy. Where you are when it happens doesn’t really matter. I don’t sleep any better in the bed than I do on the couch or a sleeping bag in the woods. The other strange thing is it comes and goes. I’ll go through periods where it last for weeks and then may go months before there’s another bout of it. It does not appear to be correlated with any life event. I’m not under any more stress right now than I ever am. It kind of bothers me that I’m not working right now but I do have a sufficient income from my numerous business ventures I really don’t need to. My living expenses are minimal.

this is certainly something bourbon would help with blood but I saw my doctor last year he told me I was pre-diabetic. Which I was kind of surprised to hear because I am in pretty good physical condition. But I do have a family history of type two. So I cut way back on carbohydrates and seriously cut back on sugar. Whiskey is both. 

[LadyCrimson]

2 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

It’s like you’re exhausted but not sleepy.

That's a decent description of general insomnia. For me it's usually certain mental factors that may trigger it - not (current/recent) stress, more like PTSD. You say it doesn't seem related to any life event, but it still could be - just one that happened so early in life (under four years old, say) that you can't remember/don't associate it.  It took me years/way into my adulthood to realize/consider many of my issues (including sleep) may have come from being abandoned/adopted (when I was around 2).  eg, unconscious fear of going to sleep and then waking up and everything will have changed/disappear.  Lack of control or something.  Sucky thing is knowing that could be a major factor doesn't really help me control it, since the PTSD event happened so early it's almost ingrained.  My life can be perfectly stable/going well and it still happens for some reason. Or something obivous may trigger it (like moving to a new house...)

Anyway, not saying yours is like that (there are also, ofc, physical reasons for insomnia), but one never knows what early life event might still be having an affect on you as an adult.

[ShadySands]

Sorry, GD.

I don't have anything that would probably help. Melatonin doesn't work for me either and I try to avoid the prescription stuff and working out is really hit or miss.

 

[Gromnir]

we got kinda severe insomnia and have had such for years. some is nerve pain related, but the reality is we had troubles with sleeping before the nerve pain issues. as such we got some sympathy for gd's plight.

only two things help us decrease (not eliminate) our insomnia:

1) schedule

do not take naps even if you are exhausted. do everything possible to develop a sleep schedule, and is best to try and sleep nighttime. 

2) exercise

regular intense exercise helps. helps. is not a magic fix, and is not as if 90 minutes o' weights followed by 45-50 minutes of cardio you send you immediate to your pillow neither. don't workout immediate before planned sleep. 

have never had much luck with diet suggestions and am admitted terrible 'bout the schedule thing in part 'cause we get frustrated the first few days o' trying to reestablish a schedule. inevitably we need face a few o' those interminable sleepless nights o' increasing consternation as we toss and turn and stare at the inside o' our eyelids and listen to our own breathing... doing the seeming ineffectual breathing exercises we were taught. takes days before the schedule kinda kicks in and begins working and am kinda going nuts before such begins to help. 

is unlikely to be a silver bullet solution. exercise and a schedule may even make gd's insomnia worse. 

good luck.

HA! Good Fun!

ps am kinda lucky opioids have so little impact on us. 'cause if taking 'em helped us get to sleep, we would use at even abuse levels.

 

Edited June 25, 2021 by Gromnir

[Malcador]

Play some PoE, GD. That'll put you to sleep in no time.

[LadyCrimson]

Am I the only one where (a normal level of, not olympic level training) exercise actually wakes me up? And I mean, mentally wide awake for hours and hours, not just while doing it?

I also have trouble staying asleep long enough, more and more, as I age. So it's like a double whammy sometimes. 

[WDeranged]

Went for a CT scan on my kidneys cos I almost certainly have a kidney stone...hopefully a kidney stone.  On the way home I went to do a ton of shopping at a swanky Marks & Spencer store.  When I arrived home I happened to find a rain soaked package hidden in my back yard.  This was no doubt the 60 year old record I ordered a couple of months ago.  Slight sensation of shame for persecuting the seller about it, but sod it, not my fault.

So now I'm going to open a bottle of wine and see if this filthy record actually plays.

[ShadySands]

38 minutes ago, LadyCrimson said:

Am I the only one where (a normal level of, not olympic level training) exercise actually wakes me up? And I mean, mentally wide awake for hours and hours, not just while doing it?

No, I used to start my days with exercise to help wake up but now it's more of a late afternoon thing because that's when I start fading. That said, I generally sleep better when I work out consistently but definitely not always.

[Guard Dog]

4 hours ago, LadyCrimson said:

That's a decent description of general insomnia. For me it's usually certain mental factors that may trigger it - not (current/recent) stress, more like PTSD. You say it doesn't seem related to any life event, but it still could be - just one that happened so early in life (under four years old, say) that you can't remember/don't associate it.  It took me years/way into my adulthood to realize/consider many of my issues (including sleep) may have come from being abandoned/adopted (when I was around 2).  eg, unconscious fear of going to sleep and then waking up and everything will have changed/disappear.  Lack of control or something.  Sucky thing is knowing that could be a major factor doesn't really help me control it, since the PTSD event happened so early it's almost ingrained.  My life can be perfectly stable/going well and it still happens for some reason. Or something obivous may trigger it (like moving to a new house...)

Anyway, not saying yours is like that (there are also, ofc, physical reasons for insomnia), but one never knows what early life event might still be having an affect on you as an adult.

I guess I can’t rule out a psychological cause but I have had a life that has been blessedly free of emotional trauma. Great parents, drama free childhood, etc.  marriages didn’t work out so well but I have a clean conscience on both of them. I’m very active most days but I don’t have any kind of real exercise regimen. I may give that a try next.

[WDeranged]

41 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

I guess I can’t rule out a psychological cause but I have had a life that has been blessedly free of emotional trauma. Great parents, drama free childhood, etc.  marriages didn’t work out so well but I have a clean conscience on both of them. I’m very active most days but I don’t have any kind of real exercise regimen. I may give that a try next.

The best nights sleep I've ever had were all either at the end of a physical or emotional trial.

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, ShadySands said:

No, I used to start my days with exercise to help wake up but now it's more of a late afternoon thing because that's when I start fading. That said, I generally sleep better when I work out consistently but definitely not always.

not specific directed at shady but we thought we stated the exercise ain't meant as a soporific or some kinda natural sleeping pill. again, do not exercise immediate before planning to go to sleep. however, if you have insomnia, then a regular exercise regimen may help. much like the sleep schedule, the exercise should be regular but it should occur at some point during the day not proximate to bedtime.

curiously, work to point of exhaustion, even if such work includes physical activity, doesn't necessarily help us personal. spend your day on a roof doing repairs is not same as exercise meant to stave off insomnia even if is more taxing than whatever exercise plan you might devise. work fatigue is somehow different from whatever benefits you get from exercise... and white collar fatigue is definite not helping us. spend a sleepless night preparing for court followed by a day o' wrangling with clients and counsel and judges is at least as taxing as any workout we ever suffered but spend weeks doing such over and over and over again were guaranteeing we would reach the cadaverous and haunted full scale insomnia where we literal arrived at the stage where we felt/feel like we is perpetual disembodied and kinda piloting our body through daily activities from just outside our self... difficult to describe. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Gorth]

Got myself a combined tetanus, whooping cough and diphtheria shot today. Still alive. So far, so good

The things you do when friends are expecting a newborn (their first) in a few weeks time (I couldn’t care less, but apparently whooping cough is a very real threat to newborns)

[Gfted1]

Heh, Im asleep before my head hit the pillow.

[Gromnir]

24 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Got myself a combined tetanus, whooping cough and diphtheria shot today. Still alive. So far, so good

The things you do when friends are expecting a newborn (their first) in a few weeks time (I couldn’t care less, but apparently whooping cough is a very real threat to newborns)

which reminds us we need second dose of the shingles vaccine as am kinda in the temporal window for the next jab. the side effects of the first shot were a bit unsettling. we do not drink, but am serious considering taking it up contemporaneous with getting our second shingles dose. regardless, if the upcoming post shot symptoms are anything like the first, we will not be sleeping that night either.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited June 26, 2021 by Gromnir

[LadyCrimson]

8 hours ago, ShadySands said:

No, I used to start my days with exercise to help wake up but now it's more of a late afternoon thing because that's when I start fading. That said, I generally sleep better when I work out consistently but definitely not always.

 

5 hours ago, Gromnir said:

not specific directed at shady but we thought we stated the exercise ain't meant as a soporific or some kinda natural sleeping pill. again, do not exercise immediate before planning to go to sleep.

To be clear, I wasn't talking specifically about bouts of problem insomnia. I just meant in general.
Unless I'm having a fit of depression, I usually don't get remotely sleepy for at least 20-24 hours, good luck trying to go to sleep every 15-16.   Daily exercise, even doing it in the morning vs. evening, makes it worse - pre-40's (when I was much more physically active) I was awake until dawn all the time, not one bit tired, and ofc. doing anything too brain-engaging late night makes it worse too (like gaming, or reading, or net-surfing...).

I just figured it's because exercise gives you generally more health/energy then not.  But then I see it listed as a way to help with insomnia, and thus ...  I know why exercise is supposed to be good for depression, maybe it's kinda like that for most people, some kind of chemical regulation help?

...the one area exercise does help me at times is the back, because poor posture (back/hip/other alignment problems) can carry over into sleep posture.  But that's quality of sleep vs. being able to initially sleep/feeling sleepy.

...anyway, for myself, if I need/have to sleep and I can't, I just stay in bed. I may get up briefly now and then, but then go right back to lying in bed. Hopefully I bore myself to sleep that way.  Doing any activity - even listening to white noise - just keeps my brain stimulated and I'll be up until dark again the next day - this when I'm 'normal', not insomnia bouts. 

Edited June 26, 2021 by LadyCrimson

[BruceVC]

15 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

It’s hard to describe. It’s like you’re exhausted but not sleepy. Where you are when it happens doesn’t really matter. I don’t sleep any better in the bed than I do on the couch or a sleeping bag in the woods. The other strange thing is it comes and goes. I’ll go through periods where it last for weeks and then may go months before there’s another bout of it. It does not appear to be correlated with any life event. I’m not under any more stress right now than I ever am. It kind of bothers me that I’m not working right now but I do have a sufficient income from my numerous business ventures I really don’t need to. My living expenses are minimal.

this is certainly something bourbon would help with blood but I saw my doctor last year he told me I was pre-diabetic. Which I was kind of surprised to hear because I am in pretty good physical condition. But I do have a family history of type two. So I cut way back on carbohydrates and seriously cut back on sugar. Whiskey is both. 

Before I moved to Cpt  my sleep patterns were irregular and I made this  post. Once I settled in to my new routine in Cpt which included regular exercise they are fine. I normally go to sleep by 11 pm and wake up from about 5:30-6:15 am

@Guard Dog Many factors can lead to insomnia as mentioned by others and one solution wont necessarily work for others. If I was you I would ask how serious the insomnia is because one thing I would suggest is medical, legally prescribed cannabis. You dont need to smoke it and it can be ingested but literally one " joint " about 45 minutes before you go to sleep and it can have a hugely positive influence on general somnolence 

https://www.healthline.com/health/medical-marijuana/cannabis-for-sleeping#precautions

But as the article mentions this is not a permanent solution and you just need to monitor how it impacts you and make sure you get cannabis with a higher level of THC 

I see its still " illegal " in Tennessee which is disappointing but I cant see it being a problem getting some? 

[BruceVC]

4 hours ago, Gfted1 said:

Heh, Im asleep before my head hit the pillow.

What time do you normally go to sleep and what time do you wake up ?

[Gfted1]

21:30-04:45

Then my body naturally wakes up without an alarm.

[BruceVC]

12 hours ago, Gfted1 said:

21:30-04:45

Then my body naturally wakes up without an alarm.

You did service in the US Navy right , do you find your ability to wake up without an alarm at this early time  is from this period ?

[Hurlshort]

I am in Vegas for 8 days. We are attending a danve competition for my daughter, so it isn't quite a vacation. We spend a good chunk of the day in a convention center.

I love Vegas, but it usually just my wife and I. We eat at nice restaurants, drink in fancy bars, see shows, and relax at the spas and the pools. Most of that is not happening with the family. But we have had a couple good meals with the kids.

Because we have to be at The Mirage from noon-9 most days, we end up fighting the casino crowds much more than I typically would. Getting to our hotel last night was not easy. Taxi stands were packed and the strip was a mess. Thankfully we are staying at a Residence Inn off the strip, so we get a bit of serenity before we go back in the maelstrom.

[Malcador]

Spent an hour arguing on the Internet.