Ways to stack Deflection?

[Lampros]

Can someone list all the reasonably achievable Deflection buffs?

Something like this similar thread for Penetration:

In particular, I am trying to see if I can get extremely high level of Deflection WITHOUT Mirror Image. Mirror Image absolutely destroys my eyes and my sanity, and I'd rather not use it unless I absolutely have to do so.

Using my save from 2 years ago, I see that my tank can achieve about 165 without Mirror Image. I am not sure if that is enough for the absolute end game content in PoTD - including the ones I haven't really experienced (e.g. the four mega-bosses and the last 2 DLC content).

[thelee]

off the top of my head:

 

Deflection bonuses

paladin deep faith: up to +15

fighter: +5 innate, only +2 for multiclass

fighter superior deflection: +5

fighter conqueror stance: +10 (active)

barbarian: -5 innate, only -3 for multiclass

large shield: up to +22 (+12 +mythic 10)

weapon and shield style: +6

wizard's double: +40 (active)

dagger modal: +10 (active)

qstaff modal: +20 (active)

mirror image: up to +30 (active)

llengrath's: +10 (active)

arcane veil: +50 (active, veil-pierce vulnerable)

escape: +50 (active)

casita samelia's legacy (chest): +5 plus +.25 per intimidate (so probably typically up to +11 max)

ring of minor deflection (ring): +2

cloak of deflection (back): +4

cloak of greater deflection (back): +7

entonia signet ring (ring): +2 per engaging foe

stalker subclass bonus: +5 near animal companion

edit - hatchet: +3 vs melee per hatchet

 

Deflection via resolve bonuses

inspiration: +5 (active)

natural resolve plus background: +9

human/orlan: additional +1

cloak of poverty (back): up to +5

token of faith (neck): +2

 

Deflection via all defense bonus

druid stag spiritshift: +7

moonwell: +10 (active)

circle of protection: +15 (active)

symbol of eothas: +15 (active)

fighter vigorous/refreshing defense: +20 (active)

beast's claw: up to +20 (active)

edit - llengrath's safeguard: +15 when activated (active)

 

Edited October 15, 2020 by thelee

[thelee]

i haven't really tied to max out deflection before, but if you're ignoring magic possibly a human/orlan fighter/paladin gets you up there.

d = deflection, a = all defenses, r = resolve

 

22 base + 10r (20 starting resolve) + 3d * 19 level + 15a deep faith + 5d superior deflection + 22d mythic large shield + 6d weaponandshield style + 10d conqueror stance <50% health (active) + 10?d casita samelia's legacy + 2d ring of minor deflection + 2d*n entonia signet ring + 7d cloak of greater deflection + 20a refreshing defense (active) + 5r some resolve inspiration (active) + 2r token of faith + 3d hatchet + 1r shorewalker sandals + 1r alchemy bonus [northwest world map]

= 198 + 2 * engaging enemies

 

 

edit - Note: only a mainchar or custom paladin can get up to +15 deep faith. OBS-created npcs don't have any alignments so don't get any rep benefits to deep faith (or spiritual weapon or holy radiance).

edit 2 - added some more stuff and some annotations

edit 3 - reverted back to hatchet. note - this is not meant to be the absolute best answer, just something i threw together as food for thought. one could probably do better.

Edited October 15, 2020 by thelee

[Lampros]

5 minutes ago, thelee said:

off the top of my head:

 

Deflection bonuses

paladin deep faith: up to +15

fighter: +5 innate, only +2 for multiclass

fighter superior deflection: +5

fighter conqueror stance: +10 (active)

barbarian: -5 innate, only -3 for multiclass

large shield: up to +22 (+12 +mythic 10)

weapon and shield style: +6

wizard's double: +40 (active)

dagger modal: +10 (active)

qstaff modal: +10 (active)

mirror image: up to +30 (active)

llengrath's: +10 (active)

arcane veil: +50 (active, veil-pierce vulnerable)

escape: +50 (active)

casita samelia's legacy (chest): +5 plus +.25 per intimidate (so probably typically up to +11 max)

ring of minor deflection (ring): +2

cloak of deflection (back): +4

cloak of greater deflection (back): +7

entonia signet ring (ring): +2 per engaging foe

stalker subclass bonus: +5 near animal companion

edit - hatchet: +3 vs melee per hatchet

 

Deflection via resolve bonuses

inspiration: +5 (active)

natural resolve plus background: +9

human/orlan: additional +1

cloak of poverty (back): up to +5

token of faith (neck): +2

 

Deflection via all defense bonus

druid stag spiritshift: +7

moonwell: +10 (active)

circle of protection: +15 (active)

symbol of eothas: +15 (active)

fighter vigorous/refreshing defense: +20 (active)

beast's claw: up to +20 (active)

 

 

 

OMFG, that is precisely what I wanted - thank you!

[Boeroer]

Note that stuff like Vigorous Defense or Llengrath's Safeguard which add +x to all defenses stacks with active buffs that add +y to deflection.

[Waski]

1 hour ago, thelee said:

22 base + 10r (20 starting resolve) + 3d * 19 level + 15a deep faith + 5d superior deflection + 22d mythic large shield + 6d weaponandshield style + 10d conqueror stance <50% health + 10?d casita samelia's legacy + 2d ring of minor deflection + 2d*n entonia signet ring + 7d cloak of greater deflection + 20a refreshing defense (active) + 5r some resolve inspiration (active) + 2r token of faith + 10d dagger modal (active) + 1r shorewalker sandals + 1r alchemy bonus [northwest world map]

never tested it but i suspect dagger modal wont stack with conqueror  stance(but there are also bracers of deflection and ekkevit drink that should stack after save/reload)

[Ivanfyodorovich]

Also, Athletics & Cadhu Scalth gives you an additional +3 to +10. 

Edited October 15, 2020 by Ivanfyodorovich

[thelee]

1 hour ago, Waski said:

never tested it but i suspect dagger modal wont stack with conqueror  stance(but there are also bracers of deflection and ekkevit drink that should stack after save/reload)

you're right. i originally had hatchet in there, but i forgot that conqueror stance is active and changed the hatchet to be a dagger. i'll edit the post.

it's not meant to be a super optimized, just the best i could do in a few minutes.

[Lampros]

18 minutes ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

Also, Athletics & Cadhu Scalth gives you an additional +3 to +10. 

Wow, and you'd be leveling Athletics anyways on a melee.

Now, the question is: What is the number necessary to beat DLC content and mega-bosses?

[thelee]

9 minutes ago, Lampros said:

Now, the question is: What is the number necessary to beat DLC content and mega-bosses?

somewhat of a trick question, because deflection won't help you beat all the megabosses. hauane o whe is immortal if you can't disintegrate or cc/dps enough. sigilmaster auranic can cleanse your buffs and one of the totems unerringly hits you (no attack roll). you also face a lot of dangerous dlc and megaboss attacks that don't target deflection. i'm sure potd solo experts can chime in more, but i don't think deflection is the end-all be-all here.

 

but i think on potd accuracy tops out at around 150. if you can get to a deflection of 225, you're all but guaranteed to be safe (from physical attacks). it looks like it's doable, but in practice i don't think there's any persistent way to keep a deflection that high.

Edited October 15, 2020 by thelee

[Lampros]

3 minutes ago, thelee said:

somewhat of a trick question, because deflection won't help you beat all the megabosses. hauane o whe is immortal if you can't disintegrate or cc/dps enough. sigilmaster auranic can cleanse your debuffs and one of the totems unerringly hits you (no attack roll). you also face a lot of dangerous dlc and megaboss attacks that don't target deflection. i'm sure potd solo experts can chime in more, but i don't think deflection is the end-all be-all here.

 

but i think on potd accuracy tops out at around 150. if you can get to a deflection of 225, you're all but guaranteed to be safe (from physical attacks). it looks like it's doable, but in practice i don't think there's any persistent way to keep a deflection that high.

Thanks; perhaps I shouldn't just go crazy all-in on Deflection then.

Also, can these mega-bosses be "tanked" by one guy primarily - or do they essentially need all of your characters to have high survivability?

[thelee]

Just now, Lampros said:

Also, can these mega-bosses be "tanked" by one guy primarily - or do they essentially need all of your characters to have high survivability?

i think @Kaylonor some such with more solo experience is a better person to answer.

in my experience, megabosses are highly technical fights. so "tanking" in the general sense does not make sense to me. you can certainly tank with like a salvation-of-time/barring-deaths-door combo, but it's not exactly the same kind of tanking you'd do in the rest of the game. put another way - with the right setup you don't even need a tank at all (whispers of the wind + ajamuuts' stalking cloak will absolutely wreck hauane o whe). they're just all super technical puzzles rather than conventional fights.

[Kaylon]

You need more than deflection to be able to tank the mega-bosses because they have abilities/spells targeting all defenses... The herald is the best tank overall (high passive defense/healing) and he's also a great addition for any party because of his auras/chants. The herald can tank (and even solo) all the mega-bosses but it's not always the best strategy...

[mjo2138]

That is great to know about the BLOB megaboss. First time I fought it i used 1 herald and a howler to win it. Long fight! I am rolling a monk now so I think I will change from FF to a diff class to ensure I can stack WotW. thanks for the info

[Lampros]

What about Gladiator Sword? It gives +5 Deflection when used with a shield. Or is this sword not good enough in terms of other bonuses to qualify as end-game weapon?

[thelee]

32 minutes ago, Lampros said:

What about Gladiator Sword? It gives +5 Deflection when used with a shield. Or is this sword not good enough in terms of other bonuses to qualify as end-game weapon?

in a vacuum that is actually probably ideal instead of a hatchet in my quick and dirty math.

in practice, a hatchet can also debuff enemy accuracy -10 with its modal, and all you need to do is at least graze with it. so a hatchet gives you a 13-pt swing in relative defense against an enemy versus the 5 you get from a gladiator sword. i believe the only other effects that can emulate this is a wand modal (-10), devotions for the faithful (-10), or despondent blows (-15).

 

so... it depends on other factors. gladiator sword is not a great end-game weapon, but hatchets aren't exactly world-beaters themselves IMO (except for xoti's weapon).

[Boeroer]

Acolyte's Hatchet is pretty good though. Vion C'Thingy used to be extremely good on a Ranger/something with Binding Roots but it got nerfed hard unfortunately (from +100% dmg to +30% - or even +20%? Forgot...).

I actually like Gladiator's Sword. Unlike weapon modals its +5 universal deflection bonus stacks with everything and you don't even have to graze anybody. The +10% dmg is not breathtaking, but the upgrade does not only remove the -1 PEN bit turns it into +1 PEN which transforms it to a sword with 8 base PEN instead of 7 which is pretty great for a defensive weapon imo. 

[Lampros]

On 10/15/2020 at 2:35 PM, thelee said:

i haven't really tied to max out deflection before, but if you're ignoring magic possibly a human/orlan fighter/paladin gets you up there.

d = deflection, a = all defenses, r = resolve

 

22 base + 10r (20 starting resolve) + 3d * 19 level + 15a deep faith + 5d superior deflection + 22d mythic large shield + 6d weaponandshield style + 10d conqueror stance <50% health (active) + 10?d casita samelia's legacy + 2d ring of minor deflection + 2d*n entonia signet ring + 7d cloak of greater deflection + 20a refreshing defense (active) + 5r some resolve inspiration (active) + 2r token of faith + 3d hatchet + 1r shorewalker sandals + 1r alchemy bonus [northwest world map]

= 198 + 2 * engaging enemies

 

 

edit - Note: only a mainchar or custom paladin can get up to +15 deep faith. OBS-created npcs don't have any alignments so don't get any rep benefits to deep faith (or spiritual weapon or holy radiance).

edit 2 - added some more stuff and some annotations

edit 3 - reverted back to hatchet. note - this is not meant to be the absolute best answer, just something i threw together as food for thought. one could probably do better.

So the numbers look better than I expected:

I can get over 200 with an un-optimized (that is, non-MC) Fighter/Rogue at level 14 already for an extended period. Escape is the big one, as it adds a whopping 50. I assume 250 or so is possible for the duration of most fights at level 20, with Ancestory's Memory and Salvation of Time indefinitely extending Escape? Or does Escape never extend beyond 1 turn, regardless of what tricks you pull off?

Edit: Suffice to say, no Deflection-based attacks hit him, and there are very few Grazes - even in turn-based with boosted Graze chance - at these numbers.

Edited November 1, 2020 by Lampros

[Boeroer]

If you pick Cadhu Scalth and invest in Athletics (for increased deflection bons) and Metaphysics and instead of Casita Samelia's Breastplate take Nomad's Brigandine (+5 deflection and +5 against melee - no need to skill Intimidation and with the Large Shield modal ranged attacks are less dangerous anyway) you will have a high permanent, non-dispellable deflection that doesn't need SoT shenanigans.

An alternative to Cadhu Scalth (which also has dmg reduction via Metaphysics which is awesome) you can be Bronlar's Phalanx which gains up to +20 deflection while your health goes down. +20 is at 0 health so that's silly, but even near death it has higher deflection than any other item and it delivers the deflection right when you need it most.  But even if this leads to higehr deflection I would absolutels recomennd Cadhu Scalth because the combination of Athletics (+ deflection) and Metaphysics (damage reduction) is just too good. 

If you want to stick to Casita's you can still do that and use Cadhu Scalth. The deflection scaling with Athletics is still possible, but you wouldn't be able to raise Metaphysics since you need all the points for Intimidation. You can reach quite high Intimidation with the help of Berath's Blessing: pick the double skill bonus and Infamous Captain (+3 Intimidate) and later train the skill at some trainer dude (forgot who) for another +1. 

Also nowadays you can actually find the Bracers of Greater Deflection in the game for +7 on top.

Edited November 1, 2020 by Boeroer

[thelee]

1 hour ago, Lampros said:

Escape is the big one, as it adds a whopping 50. I assume 250 or so is possible for the duration of most fights at level 20, with Ancestory's Memory and Salvation of Time indefinitely extending Escape

i was only selecting "persistent" effects, not stuff you have to actively cast and maintain. but yes, much higher should be possible with salvation of time + escape.

 

+all defense effects will also improve your deflection and because it's not a "deflection bonus" it stacks with a deflection bonus. so escape + circle of protection/symbol of eothas/refreshing defense/moonwell/beast's claw will get you even higher

Edited November 1, 2020 by thelee

[Lampros]

3 hours ago, Boeroer said:

If you pick Cadhu Scalth and invest in Athletics (for increased deflection bons) and Metaphysics and instead of Casita Samelia's Breastplate take Nomad's Brigandine (+5 deflection and +5 against melee - no need to skill Intimidation and with the Large Shield modal ranged attacks are less dangerous anyway) you will have a high permanent, non-dispellable deflection that doesn't need SoT shenanigans.

An alternative to Cadhu Scalth (which also has dmg reduction via Metaphysics which is awesome) you can be Bronlar's Phalanx which gains up to +20 deflection while your health goes down. +20 is at 0 health so that's silly, but even near death it has higher deflection than any other item and it delivers the deflection right when you need it most.  But even if this leads to higehr deflection I would absolutels recomennd Cadhu Scalth because the combination of Athletics (+ deflection) and Metaphysics (damage reduction) is just too good. 

If you want to stick to Casita's you can still do that and use Cadhu Scalth. The deflection scaling with Athletics is still possible, but you wouldn't be able to raise Metaphysics since you need all the points for Intimidation. You can reach quite high Intimidation with the help of Berath's Blessing: pick the double skill bonus and Infamous Captain (+3 Intimidate) and later train the skill at some trainer dude (forgot who) for another +1. 

Also nowadays you can actually find the Bracers of Greater Deflection in the game for +7 on top.

Thanks for the oodles of info, as usual.

Too late for me to opt for a different armor, as I've already went heavy into Intimidate and enchanted the Casita's armor to Legendary. But I did just grab Cadhu Scalth - and that's one reason why my Deflection is sky-high at the moment. Since my tank is part-time DPS as a Riposte bot, my Accuracy is tanking a bit with heavy shield though. And yes, I already have the Bracers of Greater Deflection!

2 hours ago, thelee said:

i was only selecting "persistent" effects, not stuff you have to actively cast and maintain. but yes, much higher should be possible with salvation of time + escape.

 

+all defense effects will also improve your deflection and because it's not a "deflection bonus" it stacks with a deflection bonus. so escape + circle of protection/symbol of eothas/refreshing defense/moonwell/beast's claw will get you even higher

Yup. I have Vigorous Defense. But it doesn't seem to stack with Circle of Protection or Moonwell?

[Boeroer]

No, because those also do +x to all all defenses. But you can stack them with +y to one defense. Which is weird but it works. So Vigorous Defense (+20 to all) stacks with Mirrored Images (+30 to defl.), but not with Moonwell (+10 to all). 

[Lampros]

33 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

No, because those also do +x to all all defenses. But you can stack them with +y to one defense. Which is weird but it works. So Vigorous Defense (+20 to all) stacks with Mirrored Images (+30 to defl.), but not with Moonwell (+10 to all). 

Got it. But I've already got Escape for Deflection.

[Boeroer]

Sure.

Look at other items (besides armor and shields) that give you a temporary deflection bonus, too. They can be prolonged as well and sometimes they stack because they are from items. E.g. look at the Magnificent Escape Cape (Escape), Duskfall (Drawing Parry) and the Mask of the Weyc (Veiling Hood)... 

Edited November 1, 2020 by Boeroer

[Lampros]

16 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Sure.

Look at other items (besides armor and shields) that give you a temporary deflection bonus, too. They can be prolonged as well and sometimes they stack because they are from items. E.g. look at the Magnificent Escape Cape (Escape), Duskfall (Drawing Parry) and the Mask of the Weyc (Veiling Hood)... 

You are an encyclopedia!