Sexual Archetype Force

[ekt0]

I like this game and its predecessor a lot. I have spent more than 500 hours on Pillars of Eternity 2 : Deadfire, and yet I still have not finished the game, because I had restarted too many times. This game has so many great things and I wish it be more successful than it is now. However, I am quite upset about some sexual content in this game.

Personally, I consider it to be sexual harassment.

Firstly, I think that the game gender diversification does not comply with real world statistics. Almost all companions are gay or bisexual, except Eder. When making this data in percentage, I think the number is too much. Most people in real world have straight sexual preference. Nonetheless, I am fine with this fictional fact. Perhaps, in Eora, people are mostly bisexual, even though there were less in Pillars of Eternity 1. What I do mind is that this bisexual fictional setup has a lot of impact on in-game dialogues, and sometimes I think it is too much and unrealistic for me.

Secondly, I think sometimes some dialogues can be considered moderate sexual harassment, and I find it inappropriate. I will make an example of the specific ones. To begin with, when I play RPG, I am the main character. I put myself into the game.  When I make choices in game, the consequence reflects the path I had chosen. When other characters talk to my main character, I feel like as if they are talking to me.  In game, I had created a straight male character who like female, just like me.

One day, Tekehu decides to ask me if my main character dates anyone. The question is fine to me but what I think is too much is that the options I am provided to answer him. I cannot even tell him that my main character has straight sexual preference. I cannot say that he is not my type, or whatever. I can only answer him that I date Xoti, or someone. Furthermore, after I had told him I was currently date someone, he says something like he wishes the god should have made me look at him sooner. I think this dialogue has crossed the line. I think it is sexual harassment.

Let me summarize. There is no option to tell Tekehu that my main character is straight. Afterwards, he says that gods should have made me look at him sooner, with his flirty voice.

Is this too much ? Is it wrong to be straight playing Pillars of Eternity 2 : Deadfire ?

Do not take me wrong. I have some transgender and gay friends in real life. I am fine with them. I respect them, and they respect me as well.

[SchroedsCat]

The characters aren't really bisexual, they're playersexual. Which is a way to save resources while writing and coding the game. Also no random people on the internet getting angry at the devs for not being to romance their fave NPC. Personally, this kind of solution isn't my cup of tea but I don't care much for game romances anyway. 

And yeah, Xoti hitting on my watcher was kind of annoying. For Tekehu though, it's just part of his character. 

[xzar_monty]

1 hour ago, ekt0 said:

One day, Tekehu decides to ask me if my main character dates anyone. The question is fine to me but what I think is too much is that the options I am provided to answer him. I cannot even tell him that my main character has straight sexual preference. I cannot say that he is not my type, or whatever. I can only answer him that I date Xoti, or someone. Furthermore, after I had told him I was currently date someone, he says something like he wishes the god should have made me look at him sooner. I think this dialogue has crossed the line. I think it is sexual harassment.

So, Tekehu makes an advance (which to me is fine), you reject it (which to me is fine), he then expresses disappointment (which to me is fine). Where is the harassment? How, exactly, has that dialogue crossed the line, and where and what is the line?

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, ekt0 said:

Is it wrong to be straight playing Pillars of Eternity 2 : Deadfire ?

Yes. It is wrong. I mean what were you thinking? It's obviously wrong... so so wrong...

1 hour ago, ekt0 said:

I have some transgender and gay friends in real life. I am fine with them.

There are no transgender characters in Deadfire. Did you confuse "bisexual" and "transgender"?
 

1 hour ago, ekt0 said:

There is no option to tell Tekehu that my main character is straight.

There's an early option to tell him that you are not interested. Pick it and he will stop to hit on you immediately and will never try again. Maybe there was too much curiosity on your part so you missed it?

1 hour ago, ekt0 said:

[...]  after I had told him I was currently date someone, he says something like he wishes the god should have made me look at him sooner. I think it is sexual harassment.

Lets do a test: Let's imagine Tekehu was a pretty girl, let's name her Brunhilde.

• Brunhilde: "Hey ekt0! Are you dating anyone?"
• etk0: "Uh yes, I'm dating Peggy from accounting."
• Brunhilde: "Oh too bad - I wish I had met you earlier, tehehe." *wink-wink"

Would you imply that this is sexual harassment? If your answer is "no" then you are applying double standards. If your answer is "yes" then I'm asking myself how you want to achieve any sexual intercourse with another person without the help of Tinder... in addition maybe have a talk to somebody who actually got harassed - to put things in proper perpective.

PS: I know: don't feed the troll. But I can't help it: I will take every opportunity to post some gifs of The Rock.
  

 

[bugarup]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

PS: I know: don't feed the troll. But I can't help it: I will take every opportunity to post some gifs of The Rock.

I think it's very appropriate to feed the troll with lots and lots of Rocks.

[ekt0]

4 hours ago, SchroedsCat said:

The characters aren't really bisexual, they're playersexual. Which is a way to save resources while writing and coding the game. Also no random people on the internet getting angry at the devs for not being to romance their fave NPC. Personally, this kind of solution isn't my cup of tea but I don't care much for game romances anyway. 

And yeah, Xoti hitting on my watcher was kind of annoying. For Tekehu though, it's just part of his character. 

I am pretty sure Tekehu is bisexual. He has slept with Rabyuna and also flirted with the bar owner of Wild Mare.

[ekt0]

15 hours ago, Boeroer said:

There are no transgender characters in Deadfire. Did you confuse "bisexual" and "transgender"?

There's an early option to tell him that you are not interested. Pick it and he will stop to hit on you immediately and will never try again. Maybe there was too much curiosity on your part so you missed it?

PS: I know: don't feed the troll. But I can't help it: I will take every opportunity to post some gifs of The Rock.

Wow, do you really think that I has created this post just for trolling ? Seriously ?

My thought and feeling may not be relevant to you. I know that not everyone feel the same way or understand the same thought process, but you really think that I was trolling ? Just to be clear, I am serious and I mean it. If you do not understand or try to do so, the least you can do is respecting others.

Now let's talk about the game.

You mentioned that there was an option to tell Tekehu that the main character is not interested and he would stop trying to hit me. May I ask is that the relevant option ?

My main character cares for Tekehu as friend / teammate / comrade. Of course, I was interested in his well-being and his feeling as a friend. It is normal for me to ask him those question. It is not about curiousity. However, my main character is not sexually interested in Tekehu. These are 2 different things. Now, can you confirm me again that there is such early option to tell Tekehu about this ? Are you sure ? I am quite sure too that there was no such option to explicitly state about sexual interest.

Or the only way to make Tekehu not hitting me is to not care about him at all and treat him like a stranger, not a friend ?

Quote

Lets do a test: Let's imagine Tekehu was a pretty girl, let's name her Brunhilde.

• Brunhilde: "Hey ekt0! Are you dating anyone?"
• etk0: "Uh yes, I'm dating Peggy from accounting."
• Brunhilde: "Oh too bad - I wish I had met you earlier, tehehe." *wink-wink"

Would you imply that this is sexual harassment? If your answer is "no" then you are applying double standards. If your answer is "yes" then I'm asking myself how you want to achieve any sexual intercourse with another person without the help of Tinder... in addition maybe have a talk to somebody who actually got harassed - to put things in proper perpective.

Here is another interesting part.

I admit that your example makes sense, but it is also twisted. In real life, if someone know that I prefer female partner and he (as a male) still ask me this question like the one Tekehu had asked, he obviously harasses me. However, if he does not know my type, I still think he should not ask this question. What he should have asked first is what my sexual preference is, so that he may know whether he is in the scope or not. Yet, there is no such question in game and there is no such option to tell Tekehu about the main character's sexual preference.

From your example, I find it not sexual harassment at all, because we live in the world that most people are straight. A man marrying a woman and having an offspring is a norm, a global mutual understanding. From observation, a female friend or acquaintance may automatically knows my sexual preference, so that she does not need to ask. I find this logical and not having double standards at all.

In addition, I think I do not need to find another somebody who actually got harassed. I hope you understand what I mean, and really hope that you stop thinking that I am trolling about this topic.

Edited May 18, 2020 by ekt0

[msyoung]

I played this game through six times and I did not have ingame sexual play. There are no sexual scenes, just questions to have that as a background element in the end game story. I answered those questions in the most generic way possible (though one time I tried having Xoti as a girl friend to see what would happen, nothing in the game changed, except the end game narrative). Sexual interest is part of real life so the devs included that in the game and it is a very, very minor part of the game. I ignored that entirely. I think you are making the proverbial mountain out of a mole hill.

[Guest 4ward]

on the other hand for those who feel offended (not saying i am) would it be a big issue if developpers in future would include an option where the player could choose something like

include same-gender romance? Yes / no

you choose no and the romance initial dialogue doesn‘t happen, problem solved..

[ABearIsHere]

6 hours ago, SchroedsCat said:

The characters aren't really bisexual, they're playersexual. Which is a way to save resources while writing and coding the game. Also no random people on the internet getting angry at the devs for not being to romance their fave NPC. Personally, this kind of solution isn't my cup of tea but I don't care much for game romances anyway. 

And yeah, Xoti hitting on my watcher was kind of annoying. For Tekehu though, it's just part of his character. 

No, this is incorrect, almost every companion that can have romances with both a female and male Watcher references attraction to both genders in some way as part of their story. Xoti, for example, can have a romance with Maia and obviously has a crush on Edér. She even mentions that in Raedceras a lesbian relationship wouldn't be accepted. Aloth is hinted to have had a crush on both the lady in the starting island and an old classmate now turned brothel worker. Tekehu mentions relationships with both men and women, and I think that's true of Serafen too.

I'm not gonna entertain the OP because it's ludicrous to consider this sexual harassment, lmao.

[Dyxx]

I'm sorry I don't get it.

In the end it's a game and the conversations are preset.

To let everyone have a relationship with any gender is easier to code I think.

You can always say "nope I'm not interested in a deeper relationship".

Maybe you put to much of yourself into the game ?

And what's about this "In real life, if someone know that I prefer female partner and he still ask me this question like the one Tekehu asked, he obviously harass me. However, if he does not know my type, I still think he should not ask this question. What he should have asked first is what my sexual preference is, so that he may know whether he is in the scope or not. 

Sorry don't know how to quote properly on my mobile.

But what I wanted to say: where is the harassment ? I don't get it, I'm really sorry.

Counterquestion:

Assume you are married with a wife and have two children with her.

Now a wife, who knows that, starts flirting/talking with you every day.

Would that be a harrassment too ?

Or would that be ok ?

[ekt0]

14 minutes ago, Dyxx said:

And what's about this "In real life, if someone know that I prefer female partner and he still ask me this question like the one Tekehu asked, he obviously harass me. However, if he does not know my type, I still think he should not ask this question. What he should have asked first is what my sexual preference is, so that he may know whether he is in the scope or not. 

Counterquestion:

Assume you are married with a wife and have two children with her.

Now a wife, who knows that, starts flirting/talking with you every day.

Would that be a harrassment too ?

Or would that be ok ?

Perhaps, I did not write it down clearly enough.

In real life, if someone know that I prefer female partner and then another one (as a male) still try to flirt me like the one Tekehu does by asking that question, he obviously harass me. However, if he does not know my type, I still think he should not ask this question. What he should have asked first is what my sexual preference is, so that he may know whether he is in my scope or not. 

In other words, I think it is not right if someone just try to flirt you when they do not even know if they are of your sexual preference or not. For instances, you are straight (you like the opposite sex) and have a gay acquaintance, who is the same sex as you. Not knowing if you are straight or gay as he / she has never asked you before, one day this acquaintance suddenly flirts you. Would you feel comfortable with that ? If it were me in this situation, I could not be comfortable and would strongly feel offended.

Edited May 17, 2020 by ekt0

[Guest]

Wow.

[msyoung]

So, lets ask you a question. A pretty girl walking toward you on a sidewalk decides that she would like to flirt with you because she thinks you are cute. You would rather that she stop you and ask if you like girls or boys first? You are overthinking this.

[Phyriel]

9 hours ago, ekt0 said:

Personally, I consider it to be sexual harassment.

Firstly, I think that the game gender diversification does not comply with real world statistics.

I'm sure you can build a case here and bring into into Supreme Court of NPC Rights somewhere in Neverland.

About the second thing - that's why it's a fantasy game - I mean there are no Dragons IRL where do I compain about that?

[Phyriel]

9 hours ago, ekt0 said:

One day, Tekehu decides to ask me if my main character dates anyone. The question is fine to me but what I think is too much is that the options I am provided to answer him. I cannot even tell him that my main character has straight sexual preference. I cannot say that he is not my type, or whatever. I can only answer him that I date Xoti, or someone. Furthermore, after I had told him I was currently date someone, he says something like he wishes the god should have made me look at him sooner. I think this dialogue has crossed the line. I think it is sexual harassment.

It's only annoying You because its more dialogue options than You'd have in real life or there is a catch somewhere? Sorry couldn't help myself :D:D

[msyoung]

Personally I believe, in spite of your denials, you are a troll. Fabricating trouble where there isn't any.

[ekt0]

4 hours ago, Phyriel said:

I'm sure you can build a case here and bring into into Supreme Court of NPC Rights somewhere in Neverland.

About the second thing - that's why it's a fantasy game - I mean there are no Dragons IRL where do I compain about that?

Yes. Perhaps most people in Eora are bisexual unlike real world.

However, you do not understand the point here. In a fantasy game, something do not comply with the real world like dragons, but most things are.

[Phyriel]

Not taking the bait here  Bitches, gays and transmogs do not belong in fantasy realm, they are reality. If anything it would be offensive to put emphasis on those minorities in fantasy game because why what you imply then? That their indentity is a fairy tale to you? huh? Outrage 

Edited May 18, 2020 by Phyriel

[ekt0]

4 hours ago, msyoung said:

Personally I believe, in spite of your denials, you are a troll. Fabricating trouble where there isn't any.

I fabricate nothing. It is just different experience and views.

Now I find that most people of this community probably will not see my point or understand my awkwardness. I think it is a real waste of my time to explain furthermore.

I should just stop posting about this topic and leave it archived by Google. Perhaps, one day, someone might understand my point and pass by.

In summary, I think this game force too much same sex romanticization to the extent that I personally feel offended by some in-game dialogues.

Edited May 18, 2020 by ekt0

[msyoung]

You have played the game 500 hours and never play to the end, you keep restarting for some reason. According to Steam I have played the game 719 hours and I have finished six times. Since you don't finish you don't get Berath's Blessings which are nice bonuses. The dialog you are so incensed about is maybe 1-2% of all that is said. Be glad you are not playing Witcher 3, there is a lot of sexy dialog and nude cut scenes. Here it is just mild flirting. You are right, I do not understand your issue with such a very minor part of the game. But everyone is different so you have your world and I have mine. There are a lot of options at the start of the game, check them and see if one will eliminate what you find objectionable.

[Dyxx]

7 hours ago, ekt0 said:

Perhaps, I did not write it down clearly enough.

In real life, if someone know that I prefer female partner and then another one (as a male) still try to flirt me like the one Tekehu does by asking that question, he obviously harass me. However, if he does not know my type, I still think he should not ask this question. What he should have asked first is what my sexual preference is, so that he may know whether he is in my scope or not. 

In other words, I think it is not right if someone just try to flirt you when they do not even know if they are of your sexual preference or not. For instances, you are straight (you like the opposite sex) and have a gay acquaintance, who is the same sex as you. Not knowing if you are straight or gay as he / she has never asked you before, one day this acquaintance suddenly flirts you. Would you feel comfortable with that ? If it were me in this situation, I could not be comfortable and would strongly feel offended.

Honestly, I don't have a problem with that. I got a mouth to say what I want/ don't want and can stand my ground.

I'm not gay and I don't feel uncomfortable if a gay guy would be attracted to me and try to flirt.

As long as everything goes in a good manner and not into, let's say dirty talking or touching.

Cause I know my sexuality.

If someone flirts you, you don't need to flirt back. 

If you feel uncomfortable with something say it or leave the situation.

Honestly, I think sexual harassment against women is much worse but that's another topic

[ekt0]

1 hour ago, msyoung said:

You have played the game 500 hours and never play to the end, you keep restarting for some reason. According to Steam I have played the game 719 hours and I have finished six times. Since you don't finish you don't get Berath's Blessings which are nice bonuses. The dialog you are so incensed about is maybe 1-2% of all that is said. Be glad you are not playing Witcher 3, there is a lot of sexy dialog and nude cut scenes. Here it is just mild flirting. You are right, I do not understand your issue with such a very minor part of the game. But everyone is different so you have your world and I have mine. There are a lot of options at the start of the game, check them and see if one will eliminate what you find objectionable.

I think you are confused between sexual contents and mild / moderate sexual harassment.

I have finished the Witcher 3 and I love it. I also like Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2 too.

I do not have problem with sexual contents, nudity, gay, lesbian, sex in game. What my problem in this topic is I feel like this game force same sex relationship toward the main character, which is me, too much. If I have an option to tell Tekehu in game that I am straight or I am not sexually interested in him, I would be totally fine. That is it. That is all I want. Instead, I am provided options such as 1. Tell him I date Xoti / 2. Tell him I am seeing someone else / 3. I am seeing no one right now. To me, this is absurd and unrealistic options. In real life, when a gay flirt me and I do not like his type, I would just reply him politely that I am straight.

I am fine with the fact that most of companions are gay or bisexual as long as they respect my sexual preference and do not try to hit me too much. Unfortunately, I think Tekehu does that. You might not agree with me. It is okay. Everyone has his / her own opinion and they can be different. I just need to state mine publicly.

Edited May 18, 2020 by ekt0
grammar

[xzar_monty]

<ignore>

Edited May 18, 2020 by xzar_monty

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, ekt0 said:

I think it is a real waste of my time to explain furthermore.

I should just stop posting about this topic and leave it archived by Google. 

Praise to Wael, patron of the utterly confused.

Behold his divine workings, admire her smooth subtlety, praise its encompassing perception and embrace their multifarious goofyness.