Balance Polishing Mod Release 1.0

[TKDancer]

1 hour ago, Elric Galad said:

Either it has a substancial effect and it shift the balance while it is unnecessary to do so.

thats fair, it's just weird to me that a metalic covering over our heads offers 0 protection or benefits unless enchanted and AR balance is a fickle thing so i gave them a little bonus

 

1 hour ago, Elric Galad said:

I've worked a lot on the mod already  and I feel it is pretty complete now. ... it doesn't sound too bad if you want to go with own mod.

no worries, if it wasnt your mod as a basis most of my personal little mods wouldnt have gotten done anyways, maybe i'll start uploading them to the nexus for people who may want them

[Elric Galad]

10 hours ago, TKDancer said:

no worries, if it wasnt your mod as a basis most of my personal little mods wouldnt have gotten done anyways, maybe i'll start uploading them to the nexus for people who may want them

Yeah, you should.

It is a nice experience, as long as you target well your level of commitment  

[phanhaiminhkun]

Do you think Slayer's Claw needs a bug fix to stop the exploitation? You just need to switch it in and out to get Energized and combine it with a barbarian's Blood Storm. You can keep it up infinitely as long as you crit.

[phanhaiminhkun]

2 hours ago, phanhaiminhkun said:

Do you think Slayer's Claw needs a bug fix to stop the exploitation? You just need to switch it in and out to get Energized and combine it with a barbarian's Blood Storm. You can keep it up infinitely as long as you crit. I have a mageslayer ranger with frostseeker with 500s in bloodstorm with few shot of crit and interrupt enemies with everyhit.

 

[Elric Galad]

On 7/18/2023 at 2:53 PM, phanhaiminhkun said:

Do you think Slayer's Claw needs a bug fix to stop the exploitation? You just need to switch it in and out to get Energized and combine it with a barbarian's Blood Storm. You can keep it up infinitely as long as you crit.

Not that necessary because :

- It is great but not broken. It is just one more Tier of MIG inspiration for all  non zerks subclass (that zerks can access anyway). 

- It requires weapon swapping several time, so it costs a lots of time and initiative for each battle. Mitigated only as a Fighter, negated if going Black Jacket. But in the later case, the combo is only for Black Jacket / non zerks Barbs... at which point you can even consider it as a validcombo.

- It requires intentional activation. Don't like it, you can avoid doing it (I've patched several game changing stuff that requires intentional activation, but only if they really breaks the game such as strand of favor). 

- It is quite lategame

[Elric Galad]

Hi all,

It's been a while since there has been no discussion on this topic, and the activity on the forum as a whole has been reduced a lot for a few months. I don't know if it is related to BG3 release (not playing myself, not enough time to launch myself into something as new as freaking real 3D) or just the semi-old age of the game in general.

I think the mod has been stable for long enough to consider it complete and to take the time to thank everybody involved for this experience.

I'm not completely quitting the mod (I would correct any critical issue) or even the forum but I just wanted to say goodbye and thank you before there is no one left here. Cheers to everyone who participated on this mod (it was my first mod ever), on this thread, on this forum or even on PoE1 forum !

My first thoughts go to @Noqn who made some of the changes for the mod, resident @Boeroer for all his advices even he was not a direct user (I presume) and @thelee for his Faq and general expertise. And for all the ones who "liked" the release post of the new versions, it always help keeping oneself motivated !

It's been a major hobby for a couple of years of my life, and I enjoyed a lot the community here !

[Boeroer]

I'll always be here (I mean as long as I'm able to). Checking in at least once a day. I'm just not playing the game atm (really squeezed everthing out of it I guess), there are very few new players who come here and ask something - and also nothing new was coming for Friends of Eora™ during the last months*, so not much to talk about. 

 

* although I get some weird PoE3 vibes from Twitter the last days...  

Edited November 23, 2023 by Boeroer

[Noqn]

On 2/9/2020 at 3:51 PM, Noqn said:

Forgot to write it but this is a great initiative, Elric Galad !

Oh how time flies by

First of all, a thank you so very much for the BPM
Absolutely monumental work, well-deserved of being called complete!

Also wanted to say that I'm really glad that you posted this and to hear people are still going to be here and available although less active.
I feel a bit guilty since I've always been a bit lurky (never had much to contribue to strats and balancing ), though it's always been a delight reading your posts and the discussions in this thread. And fwiw, I am still lurking the forum!

Lastly, if I remember correctly, someone once posted this in appreciation of the BPM and I want to say I share the sentiment:

Spoiler

Edited November 23, 2023 by Noqn

[Elric Galad]

16 hours ago, Noqn said:

Oh how time flies by

First of all, a thank you so very much for the BPM
Absolutely monumental work, well-deserved of being called complete!

Also wanted to say that I'm really glad that you posted this and to hear people are still going to be here and available although less active.
I feel a bit guilty since I've always been a bit lurky (never had much to contribue to strats and balancing ), though it's always been a delight reading your posts and the discussions in this thread. And fwiw, I am still lurking the forum!

Lastly, if I remember correctly, someone once posted this in appreciation of the BPM and I want to say I share the sentiment:

  Hide contents

Ahah OSS might be my favorite comedy movie. 

And my hidden secret is that my wife is Polish

Edited November 24, 2023 by Elric Galad

[Ivanfyodorovich]

Piling on here to say that your mod has kept me enjoying the game for far longer than I would have otherwise. I came back to the game a month or so ago, and have been appreciating all the work you put in. For me, the mod is required to keep the fun alive. Cheers!

[Testlum]

Dropping by with a bug report. I'm messing around with Sacred Immolation for my own mods and went over the one here. It looks like the AoE damage doesn't scale with PL.

I suspect that's because it's triggered from the ApplyOnTick status effect instead of linking the real AoE attack directly from the ability itself.

In vanilla, the AoE damage scales according to PL even though the duration does not.

Unfortunately I'm not sure whether it is possible to have both AoE damage and duration scale with PL correctly. It might be down to a technical fault of the engine.

Edited December 16, 2023 by Testlum

[Elric Galad]

On 12/16/2023 at 4:23 AM, Testlum said:

Dropping by with a bug report. I'm messing around with Sacred Immolation for my own mods and went over the one here. It looks like the AoE damage doesn't scale with PL.

I suspect that's because it's triggered from the ApplyOnTick status effect instead of linking the real AoE attack directly from the ability itself.

In vanilla, the AoE damage scales according to PL even though the duration does not.

Unfortunately I'm not sure whether it is possible to have both AoE damage and duration scale with PL correctly. It might be down to a technical fault of the engine.

It is display bug or real bug ? Because I remember that encapsulated effects sometimes works correctly even if displayed incorrectly.

[Testlum]

Hmm, I'm not quite sure how to test that unfortunately. The damage breakdown when you hold down Shift doesn't seem to display whether the damage is affected by PL or not.

Incidentally, I also couldn't figure out how to take a in-game screenshot while holding down the Shift key simultaneously lol.

[Elric Galad]

11 hours ago, Testlum said:

Hmm, I'm not quite sure how to test that unfortunately. The damage breakdown when you hold down Shift doesn't seem to display whether the damage is affected by PL or not.

Incidentally, I also couldn't figure out how to take a in-game screenshot while holding down the Shift key simultaneously lol.

Checking penetration is probably the easiest way.

[Constentin Lévine]

On 12/18/2023 at 1:13 AM, Testlum said:

Incidentally, I also couldn't figure out how to take a in-game screenshot while holding down the Shift key simultaneously lol.

Windows key + PrtScn 

[Elric Galad]

On 12/18/2023 at 1:13 AM, Testlum said:

Hmm, I'm not quite sure how to test that unfortunately. The damage breakdown when you hold down Shift doesn't seem to display whether the damage is affected by PL or not.

Incidentally, I also couldn't figure out how to take a in-game screenshot while holding down the Shift key simultaneously lol.

Haven't you tried with PEN ? Should be easy, if every +Fire PL increase your fire damages PEN by +0.25, it means it scales normally.

[Testlum]

Quote

Windows key + PrtScn 

Seems like that doesn't work for my computer.

4 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Haven't you tried with PEN ? Should be easy, if every +Fire PL increase your fire damages PEN by +0.25, it means it scales normally.

Alright, I can give it a shot. It seems that both vanilla and the modded version do get bonus PEN, so I guess it's just an odd display bug after all. Good to know!

[Elric Galad]

3 hours ago, Testlum said:

 

Alright, I can give it a shot. It seems that both vanilla and the modded version do get bonus PEN, so I guess it's just an odd display bug after all. Good to know!

Great, pretty sure it was. Modded Divine immolation healing values had the same issue based on a post from this thread. 

[Elric Galad]

Coucou,

I'm once again returning with a couple of change ideas.

 

Souldblade :

I buffed their per kill gain from 10 max focus to 5+level, because I felt the bonus was totally irrelevant. Not that I believed Soulblade really needed a buff...
Now I realize that the bonus stack with itself, so it was never truly irrelevant.
I feel it was an undue buff so I will remove it.

 

A Soul'd Echo :

15% Hit to Crit for spell vs Will at Tier 8 feels a bit meh.
Rogue gets 10% Hit to Crit for anything at Tier 2.
Cipher gets +10 Acc for spell vs Will at Tier 6, which is almost strictly better, except maybe for interaction with the Complete Self where A Soul's Echo is a better "insurance to always get a chance vs high Will" 

I'm going to buff it to 20%. It is Single Class locked so I feel it is justified. 

 

Spell Resistance :

This is no DnD so the issue is that many monster abilities do not count as Spells. I already buffed it from 10% to 15%, but I ended almost never picking it because Tier 6+ points are scarce and it is too situational to justify. It is not even a problem of "value".

I have the idea to complete the ability with +1 AR vs the 4 elements, which would be more widely useful and fits thematically. OK that's +1 AR vs 4 out of 7 damage types, but I feel element damages are way less common, so that's about 25% of incoming damages in my book.

I would slightly tune down the Spell Resistance to 12%.
It could be helpful for Barbarians (thick-skinned + Spell Resistance = +1 AR with benefits) and decoy-type that could stand in the middle of non-friendly elemental AoE.

 

Combat Focus :

Well, a Concentration point at the start of combat can really secure a critical spell. So why do I end up never taking it ? Simple answer : because 1 ability point for it feels a bit expensive, and there are a few magical items that gives that with benefits.
So it's useful but weak.
My idea is to add a second effect : +5 all defense for 15s at the start of combat. It fits thematically (Furrante armor has both Concetration and a similar effect) and synergizes with WoD/SoT (but not too much).

 

Inspired Defenses :

It used to be +2 AR before getting nerfed by Obsidian. Too good in some situation.
BPM kept it at +1 AR but rise duration to 5s.
Even with this, the thing is the effect is good... but not that much, and a bit random. Well, it's not technically random, but it's really hard to have any control over when the bonus +1 AR is going to kick in. Attacked by a sword ? No use. Attacked by a couple of foes with different weapons ? Likely no use. And it's not like you'll have a non-tedious way to check which weapons are really attacking you.

So I'm planning to rollback over the 5s, and to change it to +1 AR for 3s without restriction over damage type (extended by INT, not by PL since it's a passive).
Yup it's significantly better, but I think it's not OP for Paladins either.

Base 3s is kind of a magical value. You need some INT just to get the bonus from a single naked goon attacking you with a dagger. Against a couple of foes, it will most likely work, at least against half of attacks if they tend to attack simultanneously. You can also use your own ticking AoE (example : Chill Fog, BPM Pallegina is immune to PER Afflictions) to refresh the bonus every 3s with minimal damages while getting Retribution charges.
The point is that this design will have :
- synergies (high INT, ticking spells) and anti-synergies (high defenses)
- clear situation where it shines (vs several foes) or less (vs single foe)
Which makes it interesting for both Builds and Tactics. And that's what we're here for, not for simili-random effect. 

 

Parting Sorrow :

Well, getting disengagement isn't very reliable, and the effect is well... nice but I won't expect getting more than a few Wounds even with a build that specifically synergizes. At least this one also gives 1 wound when an engaged foe dies (killed by you or not).
I simply propose to add +1 engagement to round it up. Most talents benefitting to disengagement get bonus engagement so this would totally make sense.

 

Bonded Fury :

This one had a lot of changes in the way to make SC Ranger great.
It is currently used a buff for a duration and a 15% Bond returned on pet damages for UNLIMITED duration.
I used to think it was a good idea to ensure SC Ranger always has a source of refund but :
- Ranger can also pick Distraction Training
- Ranger can access various refund available to all classes (mostly Brilliant from Cipher buddy)
- Ranger having to manage their ressource isn't so bad.
Also it was very bad for Ghostheart whose duration was limited by the summoned pet lifespan.

So now I think it would be more reasonable and less weird to give the refund on damages the same duration as other effects, and slightly buff it to 20% chance per damages.

 

Shadowed Hunters :

Another candidate for most reworked ability.

Current version :
For 45s, for both pet and ranger :
- healing 10hp per 3s
- -50% hostile effect
- Invisibility until attack
When invisibility is cancelled the ranger / the pet get Intuition Inspiration for 45s.
So if you don't stay invisible for long, it is basically "Intuition, 10hp per 3s, -50% hostile effect" for 45s.

A few issues I see :
- With high Intellect/PL, one can be permanently invisible with a potion of Enlightenment. Not that critical but still bad.
- It's too much "just a self buff".
- Stole a bit Monk role for anti-hostile effect

What I would change : 
For max 15s or until attack :
- Invisibility
- healing 16hp per 3s
- -50% hostile effect
For 45s after attack :
- healing 8hp per 3s
- Intuition
- no more hosile effect reduction

What that would change :
- more tactical (akka less dumb) use of invisibility. Staying invisible longer allows you to heal more in total.
- less perma invisible abuse
- a bit less strong as a pure self buff. If you don't stay invisible for long, it is basically "Intuition, 8hp per 3s" for 45s (plus 16hp on the initial tick for invisibility, so total healing isn't much reduced).

Edited January 5 by Elric Galad

[thelee]

4 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Coucou,

what does that mean? i guessed it might be french but my high school french is absolutely useless these days

 

4 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

I'm going to buff it to 20%. It is Single Class locked so I feel it is justified. 

sounds good, i almost never take the existing passive as-is

 

4 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

So I'm planning to rollback over the 5s, and to change it to +1 AR for 3s without restriction over damage type (extended by INT, not by PL since it's a passive).
Yup it's significantly better, but I think it's not OP for Paladins either.

my main concern is the symmetry; that mid-high level paladin-type enemies are already super annoying to kill because of how tanky they are and this would make them even more so.

 

4 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

I simply propose to add +1 engagement to round it up. Most talents benefitting to disengagement get bonus engagement so this would totally make sense.

*thumbs up*. enemies consciously disengaging is so rare that i think the fighter disengagement attack boost (Overbearing Guard) also needs some kind of buff (if you haven't already), and that one's arguably much better than the monk disengagement.

 

Edited January 5 by thelee

[Elric Galad]

1 hour ago, thelee said:

what does that mean? i guessed it might be french but my high school french is absolutely useless these days

It means Hi

1 hour ago, thelee said:

sounds good, i almost never take the existing passive as-is

Good

1 hour ago, thelee said:

my main concern is the symmetry; that mid-high level paladin-type enemies are already super annoying to kill because of how tanky they are and this would make them even more so.

BPM has always been quite generous when buffing an ability makes foes stronger. The added challenge isn't bad considering the risk of powercreep of the mod. 

1 hour ago, thelee said:

*thumbs up*. enemies consciously disengaging is so rare that i think the fighter disengagement attack boost (Overbearing Guard) also needs some kind of buff (if you haven't already), and that one's arguably much better than the monk disengagement.

Good for Parting sorrow. 

Indeed, Overbearing Guard and Unbroken passive have caught my attention today too. 

Overbearing Guard feels indeed better and buffing it is more complicated. Adding engagement won't fix a lot granted fighter engagement galore (hold the line has been buffed with Push/Pull immunity). Rising the values won't address its rare use, and would even feel a bit strong when abused with Terrifying ability (to some extant since it's not 100%  reliably either) ... Or just when used by foes. I guess it fits Trickster Swash or Battlemage. 

Unbroken feels a bit... unsignificant. The bonus aren't very useful (except when wearing a shield) but the malus aren't very annoying either. Again Terrifying effects might be the best way to use the subclass. 

 

Edit : maybe a small accuracy / damages bonus per engaged target for Overbearing Guard (and reduce the current bonus) and a small defense bonus per engaged target for unbroken would work well. 

Edited January 5 by Elric Galad

[Elric Galad]

Proposed change for fighter disengagement abilties :

 

Overbearing Guard :

+15 accuracy, +50% damages for disengagement attacks -> +10 accuracy, +50% damages

To add : +2 Melee weapon accuracy per engaged target

 

Unbroken :

-15% movement speed -> -20% movement speed

To add : +2 Melee weapon deflection per engaged target

(other features unchanged)

Edited January 5 by Elric Galad

[Ivanfyodorovich]

7 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Spell Resistance :

This is no DnD so the issue is that many monster abilities do not count as Spells. I already buffed it from 10% to 15%, but I ended almost never picking it because Tier 6+ points are scarce and it is too situational to justify. It is not even a problem of "value".

I have the idea to complete the ability with +1 AR vs the 4 elements, which would be more widely useful and fits thematically. OK that's +1 AR vs 4 out of 7 damage types, but I feel element damages are way less common, so that's about 25% of incoming damages in my book.

I would slightly tune down the Spell Resistance to 12%.
It could be helpful for Barbarians (thick-skinned + Spell Resistance = +1 AR with benefits) and decoy-type that could stand in the middle of non-friendly elemental AoE.

It is a pretty unique effect (Xoti's Lantern is the only other source, yeah?), but I do think it's pretty powerful for specific builds that want the extra defense versus specific abilities (even though they are limited). Specifically, here, I'm thinking about Arcane Dampener/Cleanse for buff-dependent builds, and things like Disintegrate, Missile Salvo, etc. in the DLCs.  Elemental AR is very easy to acquire via Race & Gear. I would rather see it raised to a compelling level, e.g. +20%, or make it more dependable, but less frequent, e.g. 100% resist chance, but can only occur once every 45 or 60 seconds. It could also be changed to be more like Spell Reflect, resist 100% of spells up to x levels, where that is a reasonably small #, but enough to make the  difference at the start of a fight. 

7 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Combat Focus :

Well, a Concentration point at the start of combat can really secure a critical spell. So why do I end up never taking it ? Simple answer : because 1 ability point for it feels a bit expensive, and there are a few magical items that gives that with benefits.
So it's useful but weak.
My idea is to add a second effect : +5 all defense for 15s at the start of combat. It fits thematically (Furrante armor has both Concetration and a similar effect) and synergizes with WoD/SoT (but not too much).

Defense at the start of combat shifts the focus/use case to more of a melee bruiser or tank ability, rather than something you'd want to take on your light armor casters (Furrante Armor is a good example, as that's built for a frontline Paladin type).

I would be more interested in a modest constant +defense vs. Interrupts, instead (is that possible in the code)?

Another option would be to make it a weaker version of Resolute, where you gain 1 Concentration every 30 seconds, or so.

Yet another idea is to get a buff while you have concentration, e.g. +5 all defenses while you have concentration active. 

45 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

Overbearing Guard :

+15 accuracy, +50% damages for disengagement attacks -> +10 accuracy, +50% damages

To add : +2 Melee weapon accuracy per engaged target

I agree that making the disengagement attacks better is not really worth it (arguably even if you are using a Terrify strategy - they already do enough on their own without the added boost).

Adding engagement based buffs is a great idea (though Accuracy is in abundance for Fighters already). I'd actually recommend removing the buffs to Disengagement attacks altogether and replace with another set of effects. 

Adding +1 engagement is actually not a bad idea, if you think about the trade-off with Mob Stance and promoting different builds (e.g. 2H single Class fighters). 

The best option, though, is a debuff a la Persistent Distraction. This would make other Fighter builds more compelling vs. Swashbuckler (though it would make Swashbuckler stronger, too, but not until very late). Some ideas:

- Enemies engaged by the Fighter have -5 Dexterity

- Enemies engaged by the Fighter gain a -25% penalty to Recovery

- Enemies engaged by the Fighter have -1 AR

- Enemies engaged by the Fighter take 5% of Primary Weapon damage as raw damage every 3 seconds (vs. Deflection? Reflex? Auto damage?)

- Enemies engaged by the Fighter take 10% more damage

- Enemies engaged by the Fighter have -5 all defenses

1 hour ago, Elric Galad said:

Unbroken :

-15% movement speed -> -20% movement speed

To add : +2 Melee weapon deflection per engaged target

(other features unchanged)

I think the +AR for Unbroken is already pretty strong in terms of defense. I don't think Unbroken need more defensive buffs. If we are compensating for the lack of impact the Disengagement effect has, I'd recommend adding an offensive buff per engaged target. Maybe +2 Melee Weapon Accuracy or +.5 penetration with Melee Weapons per engaged target? 

[Ivanfyodorovich]

8 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Shadowed Hunters :

Another candidate for most reworked ability.

Current version :
For 45s, for both pet and ranger :
- healing 10hp per 3s
- -50% hostile effect
- Invisibility until attack
When invisibility is cancelled the ranger / the pet get Intuition Inspiration for 45s.
So if you don't stay invisible for long, it is basically "Intuition, 10hp per 3s, -50% hostile effect" for 45s.

A few issues I see :
- With high Intellect/PL, one can be permanently invisible with a potion of Enlightenment. Not that critical but still bad.
- It's too much "just a self buff".
- Stole a bit Monk role for anti-hostile effect

What I would change : 
For max 15s or until attack :
- Invisibility
- healing 16hp per 3s
- -50% hostile effect
For 45s after attack :
- healing 8hp per 3s
- Intuition
- no more hosile effect reduction

What that would change :
- more tactical (akka less dumb) use of invisibility. Staying invisible longer allows you to heal more in total.
- less perma invisible abuse
- a bit less strong as a pure self buff. If you don't stay invisible for long, it is basically "Intuition, 8hp per 3s" for 45s (plus 16hp on the initial tick for invisibility, so total healing isn't much reduced).

Admittedly I haven’t played with an SC Ranger, but one thing that always struck me about this ability was how it was essentially a defensive CD with the mechanics feeling more about tactical retreat vs. lying in wait for a powerful ambush. 
Adding Intuitive is a great change, but I’d rather see it add more offensive potential. 

Ideas:

- Invis, untargetable (breaks on attack); while invis regain health, gain hostile effect reduction; gain stacking +accuracy, +damage, +penetration (have these effects last for fixed 10s, but apply a new stack every 3s while invis (effective max 3 stacks). 

[Testlum]

19 minutes ago, Ivanfyodorovich said:

Ideas:

- Invis, untargetable (breaks on attack); while invis regain health, gain hostile effect reduction; gain stacking +accuracy, +damage, +penetration (have these effects last for fixed 10s, but apply a new stack every 3s while invis (effective max 3 stacks). 

Ayyy, glad to see someone else has the same thoughts as me. Shadowed Hunters always sounded to me like an offensive ability instead of a defensive, Withdraw-ish tool to retreat with. I modded it in my own game to stack Crit-to-Hit chance and Crit damage over time, similar to your idea, though I didn't bother capping the stacks since it's a PL9 ability.

Edited January 5 by Testlum