Balance Polishing Mod Release 1.0

[Boeroer 15,395]

12 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

You can't just compare it to a skill like Meteor Shower, which has a long cast time, very short range, and severe potential for friendly fire. Yes you can melt bosses with it in seconds, but it's so clunky that using it anywhere else will probably lead to dealing massive damage to your own team. Leap and IoBR are both team friendly and spammable, in addition to being on a class that generally has competent autoattacks even if resources run out.

The point was that besides the food buff all the Power Level buffs you listed are not Corpse-Eater exclusive. They can be used by every character who has some fire ability - even a non-Corpse-Eater Barb. The only difference in your comparison is the food. An informative comparison could be done between a normal Barbarian with ability X and with some good food and the same ability with a Corpse Eater who ate Forbidden Flesh Pie. And if you do that you can see that Forbidden Flesh Pie with +5 PL is good but not really that OP - given that the ability costs 4 instead of 3 rage and that other classes can simply eat different but also effective food (e.g. Crusted Swordfish). It's even worse with the Roars/Shouts because their cost is doubled - which means you can only cast half as many. Even +5 PL will not compensate for that.  

 

[NotDumbEnough 41]

The ability from a Fury's spiritshifted Storm Blight (the lightning bolt that stuns) seems bugged. It doesn't scale at all with power level/character level (the pop-up always shows a penalty of 1 power level) so essentially it deals the same exact damage with the same duration stun regardless of whether you're level 1 or 20.

[Elric Galad 1,208]

On 12/3/2020 at 12:25 AM, NotDumbEnough said:

The ability from a Fury's spiritshifted Storm Blight (the lightning bolt that stuns) seems bugged. It doesn't scale at all with power level/character level (the pop-up always shows a penalty of 1 power level) so essentially it deals the same exact damage with the same duration stun regardless of whether you're level 1 or 20.

OK, found from where it comes :

 

"PowerLevelScaling": {

                "ScalingType": "Never",

                "BaseLevel": 0,

                "LevelIncrement": 1,

                "MaxLevel": 0,

                "DamageAdjustment": 1,

                "DurationAdjustment": 1,

                "BounceCountAdjustment": 0,

                "ProjectileCountAdjustment": 0,

                "AccuracyAdjustment": 0,

                "PenetrationAdjustment": 0

            },

It doesn't seem related to BPM.
But I will address it in next version.
Any objection to standard scaling (as PL1 Druid ability) ??

[NotDumbEnough 41]

Empowering Avenging Storm with Fast Empower seems to be removing recovery from all of my weapon attacks as well. 

 

I'm also not seeing the interrupt and damage from Wildstrike Frenzy: Shock on my Fury druid. The duration of my spiritshift goes way up but I don't see any damage, nor do I see any rolls in the combat log.

Edited December 5, 2020 by NotDumbEnough

[Elric Galad 1,208]

6 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

I'm also not seeing the interrupt and damage from Wildstrike Frenzy: Shock on my Fury druid. The duration of my spiritshift goes way up but I don't see any damage, nor do I see any rolls in the combat log.

This one is weird. Has anyone spotted this with another Wildstrike Frenzy or another subclass, with or without BPM ?

Edit : are you sure this was not a duration extension from basic Fury ability on Kill ?

Edited December 5, 2020 by Elric Galad

[NotDumbEnough 41]

No, it was the druid attack on Sayuka. I didn't kill that many enemies but I had 180 sec duration of spiritshift by the end of the fight, which isn't possible with just +duration on kill. I was also checking combat logs and I was scoring crits on enemies but nothing ever showed for the wildstrike frenzy effect.

[NotDumbEnough 41]

Probably not related to this mod, but Her Revenge Swept Across the Land is weird in that the primary attacks have a base pen of 9, but the bounces only have a pen of 7. I noticed this while checking the combat log.

 

I'm also not entirely sure how ability upgrades work, but it seems that it is counting as a PL1 ability in terms of power level bonuses to acc/pen/damage etc, but it also gets +1 pen from ability level (so it is being treated as a PL3 spell as well). So it is receiving doubled up bonuses as if it were both PL1 and PL3.

[Elric Galad 1,208]

2 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

Probably not related to this mod, but Her Revenge Swept Across the Land is weird in that the primary attacks have a base pen of 9, but the bounces only have a pen of 7. I noticed this while checking the combat log.

Nice to know. Indeed not mod related.

2 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

I'm also not entirely sure how ability upgrades work, but it seems that it is counting as a PL1 ability in terms of power level bonuses to acc/pen/damage etc, but it also gets +1 pen from ability level (so it is being treated as a PL3 spell as well). So it is receiving doubled up bonuses as if it were both PL1 and PL3.

That how all upgraded non-weapon based abilities work. Favorable but legit given the double ability cost.

The most noticeable case is Barbaric Tier 9 shouts and Spirit Tornado. They both count as PL9/7 for base Acc ans Pen bonus and Tier 1 for Acc/Pen/damages scaling.

[NotDumbEnough 41]

Frau Nils, the pet that gives +3 melee accuracy, is also affecting accuracy of The Dragon Thrashed, The Dragon Wailed despite it obviously not being a melee attack. Not sure about other offensive chants.

[NotDumbEnough 41]

Is Carnage supposed to apply to the target you're actually attacking? I don't remember if it happened without the mod, but right now it kinda makes Barbarians into Rogues with an AOE sneak attack.

[Boeroer 15,395]

In the unmodded game Carnage usully only applies to the enemies surrounding your target. 

The only exception is Barbarian/Monk when using Force of Anguish because the attack pushes the target into the Carnage Area after the initial hit. 

[NotDumbEnough 41]

I turned off this mod but kept the community patch - carnage still affected my primary target. Not sure if turning off the mod from the mod list and starting a new run completely wipes the slate clean, because that's what I did. Not sure if it's a lingering bug from this mod, or something to do with the community patch.

 

Edit: I suspect this is a base game bug/stealth buff, at least during the first fight of the game. Turned all my mods off, still getting carnage against stationary targets, as you can see from the combat log. Guess that just makes Carnage a better sneak attack? 

Edited January 4 by NotDumbEnough

[Boeroer 15,395]

I don't really understand what you mean by "stationary targets" and "better Sneak Attack".

Carnage should apply to all enemies around the one you are targeting with your attacks. The one you are targeting shouldn't get hit by Carnage.
 

I just loaded a savegame with a Barb (only mod is Community Patch) and my Carnage works like it should (not hitting the initial target of my attacks).

[NotDumbEnough 41]

58 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

I don't really understand what you mean by "stationary targets" and "better Sneak Attack".

Carnage should apply to all enemies around the one you are targeting with your attacks. The one you are targeting shouldn't get hit by Carnage.
 

I just loaded a savegame with a Barb (only mod is Community Patch) and my Carnage works like it should (not hitting the initial target of my attacks).

As you can see from my screenshot it just did. If you click on the enemy's name in the combat log it centers the screen on that enemy which just so happens to be the person I just hit. Look closely at the combat log: Watcher hits Pirate and then Watcher (Carnage) grazes Pirate. I am just below Eder in the screenshot hitting the pirate he engaged. 

 

Edit: Played around a bit more. Apparently Carnage is bugged ONLY while Benweth is attacking your ship. After you crash Carnage correctly does not apply to boars on the island

Edited January 4 by NotDumbEnough

[Boeroer 15,395]

Yes, I'm aware that you are experiencing this*. But as I said I just checked my game to reassure me (and you) that this is not normal behavior. Maybe it's indeed limited to the initial boat fight. If not you most likely have some mod hickups and maybe you'll have to restart the game after deactivating your mods to get rid of this.  

* Another explanation could be that your INT is very high and your Carnage just barely touched some other pirate. It's hard to tell because all enemies in this fight carry the same name and there's no Carnage AoE indicator. But the next posted is rel. far away so maybe that's not it.

Edited January 4 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad 1,208]

On 11/16/2020 at 12:05 PM, Ophiuchus said:

2) With keywords, would you consider adding Elements, Frost, and/or Storm to Spirit Tornado?

After your suggestion, I kept the idea of adding Frost KW to Spirit Tornado on my TO DO list.

But after speaking with @MaxQuest,  he agreed to add it to Community Patch. So now it EDIT : is will be included included in CP 2.0 that has just been released.

EDIT : It already appears in the Keyword list.

Cheers !

Edited February 17 by Elric Galad

[Boeroer 15,395]

Huh? Really? Have to check...

 

Edit: still says 1.01 on Nexus...

Edited February 17 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad 1,208]

33 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Huh? Really? Have to check...

 

Edit: still says 1.01 on Nexus...

My bad, just read the detailed list of changed and 2.0 already appeared.

3). Detailed list of changes (as of v2.0):
 

 

Since @Phenomenumtold me the version was technically ready I thought the files were updated. I suppose they will be updated soon.

Edited February 17 by Elric Galad

[Phenomenum 940]

1. Cheers to all)

2. We waiting for german translation update. Be patient)

3. Elric, i took only few Keywords from your mod. Overall, in Balance mod some (em... most) of your new keywords techically unnecessary (they do nothing), even more - some keywords in wrong places could break some things in game (for example, elemental keywords in contiguous damage proc status effects can cancel opposite kw effects), And some keywords need a deeper investigation. I will PM to you later about this.

For example, let's take Minoletta's Minor Missiles. I've read a lot of complains about lackin' Acid KW - seems logical on first sight, because MMM deals Crush/Corrode Damage. But let's go deeper...
MMM have an ability and ranged attack with dual damage: Crush and Corrode. If we add Acid KW to ability, then attack (as child) will be useless against Corrode-immune targets.

Another example: Spirit Tornado. Ability have an attack with Freeze AOE and 5 status effects on char, lasting for 15 sec. Seems unfare if ST don't have a Frost KW, huh? And you can add it to ability, but then, whey you activate it, your char will be under affliction of status-effects with Frost KW for 15 seconds and this will counter any effects with opposite KW (Fire). That's a bad way. A good way is to add Frost keyword ONLY to AOE attack – so attack will receive all bonuses from Frost KW (if you have one) and you will not break game mechanics.

Edited February 17 by Phenomenum

[Boeroer 15,395]

True. If you want to know how annoying this can be: try Tekehu (who has a passiv that quenches continuous fire effects on him - I suppose it was meant to make him sort of immune to burn DoTs and debuffs) with the Mith Fyr Chant: it gets removed on him. You won't find out until you notice that he hasn't the effect on him although he's chanting it. Same thing would happen if you had Mith Fyr on you or a flame shield and then cast Spirit Tornado <edit>I guess</edit>?

Edited February 17 by Boeroer

[Phenomenum 940]

Yes, that's what i'm talkin' about. We should be very careful with keywords - in first CP iteration i've added a bunch of elemental keywords to status-effects and that's was a big mistake. Now, in 2.0, only a 2 status-effects have their keywords, because, during a deeper testing, i've understand how bad that can be - when you mindlessly add KW's to every ability, attack and status-effect.

51 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Mith Fyr Chant: it gets removed on him. You won't find out until you notice that he hasn't the effect on him although he's chanting it. Same thing would happen if you had Mith Fyr on you or a flame shield and then cast Spirit Tornado.

 

I'll take a look on this closely on weekend. Maybe i can fugure it out (or not, if only one way is to took off Fire KW from chant). On the second thought, maybe i can change one parameter to apply clean to only hostile effects. But this can counter with Tekehu itself phylosophy – i presume, the total Fire effects clean on tick was implemented by design, so he have a sort of immune, but can't use it for himself. It's seem logical, because Tekehu is a water creature - he can't use fire. So, wisely, i prefer do not touch it, but maybe i can create mod just for you)

Edited February 17 by Phenomenum

[Elric Galad 1,208]

On the technical side, my understanding is the following :

- Different attacks from a single ability may have different KW. Provided the ability does not have KW itself, the attack without the KW won't be resisted. But the attack with the KW won't benefit from any KW PL because it requires the ability to be keyworded (but the Elemental PEN talents do work). That's why putting a KW on the ability can be detrimental.

- The ability won't be advertised to "carry the KW" if only subsequent attacks or status carry it but not the ability itself. I think this can be an issue for understandability.

- Any attack with a keywords substatus will carry the KW itself. That's why some attacks such as Vile Thorns are fully resisted by poison immune despite only the status being keyworded.

 

Edited February 17 by Elric Galad

[Noqn 199]

If we're talking keyword interactions I think it's worth reiterating that keywords only counter effects of opposite hostility:

So self-casting Flame Shield would not cancel your own Spirit Tornado - only hostile effects can do that (and abilities using the literal Immunity effect, like Wave Walker).

To me it makes sense to add keywords to friendly status effects as long as it fits.
In the case of Spirit Tornado, I think the Frenzy effect should not be tagged with Frost, only the attack. But buffs like Zandethus' Draconic Fury should absolutely have the Fire keyword, for example.

Edited February 17 by Noqn

[Noqn 199]

Oh, and nice to see you back @Phenomenum , and the Community Patch getting updates!

Since some of @Elric Galad's stuff was upstreamed, how about integrating Shield Bash Quality Fix into the Community Patch?

[Phenomenum 940]

2 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

But the attack with the KW won't benefit from any KW PL because it requires the ability to be keyworded

Totally wrong. Period.

2 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

The ability won't be advertised to "carry the KW" if only subsequent attacks or status carry it but not the ability itself. I think this can be an issue for understandability.

Ability and attacks have parent>child relationship.  To be clear i need some additional test.

2 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Any attack with a keywords substatus will carry the KW itself. That's why some attacks such as Vile Thorns are fully resisted by poison immune despite only the status being keyworded

Yes.