Balance Polishing Mod Release 1.0

[Hoo]

18 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Maybe this will give you some inspiration (it's a funny effect):

 

In a second post (scroll down) I also say which (fire) retaliation effects (Darcozzi Flame Shield, Battle Forged etc.) will stack.

Thank you for the information! I read the thread right now, and it seems very cool. I'm just wondering that the mechanism of Swift Flurry seems a little buggy, doesn't it?

[Hoo]

By the way, is it possible to move all of Wildstrike Frenzy abilities' level from 8 to 7? I mean, not for this mod but for my own modification with this mod. I opened cl.druid.wildstrike_frenzy.gamedatabundle file, however, I really don't know what I should modify or add. Any advice would be really appreciated!

[Elric Galad]

23 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Well well, in my current version of the game, it seems that Driving Flight does NOT stack with ANY bouncing weapons.
I tested Fury weapon, Watershaper Focus and Fire in the Hole.
It is not what I expected, but I haven't modded Watershaper Focus, Fire in the Hole and Driving Flight so it should be the same in the normal game.
Have anyone checked recently ?

Fury weapon works with other "ranged weapon passives" such as Marksman, the range I added to Sharpshooter. I have also re-tested it for focus generation and it works. 

Sorry this was a false alarm.
Driving flight works fine with Watershaper focus. The test conditions might have been wrong.

I can probably mod Fury SpiritShift weapon code into something closer to Watershaper Focus (make the Bounce a "Weapon property" rather than a characteristic of the attack). It might work but the Weapon mod only Bounce to targets behind the main one, meanwhile attack that bounces naturally can bounce in any direction backward. This would make Spiritshift Fury a little worse in general (and it will be a discrepancy compared to other Storm Blight), but better with Driving Flight or Kitchen Stove self buff. Well, if it works  

I don't know what you guys would think about this.

I could compensate by giving Fury Spiritshift a lower Bounce modificator (-10% instead of -20%).

Side note for game mechanics maniacs : the damage reduction per Bounce is a property of the weapon, not Driving Flight. Most ranged weapons have a -50% damage per bounce coded, that's why people think it is a Driving Flight property.
That means that using Driving Flight with a weapon with a lower damage penalty (such as watershaper focus, not sure how many other weapons have this characteristic) per bounce will not apply the -50% damages but the weapon value (watershaper focus : -25% for 1st bounce, -25%²=-44% for 2nd)

22 hours ago, Hoo said:

Oh, just FYI, I found a typo. The spell description of Fractured Volition is not updated.

 

The effect of Weakened has been changed to Enfeebled, but the description still shows "Weakened", the effects' description shows correctly though. 

Corrected, tested, will be included in next version.

1 hour ago, Hoo said:

By the way, is it possible to move all of Wildstrike Frenzy abilities' level from 8 to 7? I mean, not for this mod but for my own modification with this mod. I opened cl.druid.wildstrike_frenzy.gamedatabundle file, however, I really don't know what I should modify or add. Any advice would be really appreciated!

This is technically possible but incredibly annoying to do.
You basically have to copy the WHOLE progression table in the progressiontables.gamedatabundle to your own file (that would be a big file compared to other data changes) and adjust the level there.
This would conflict and erase any other mod that makes similar modification. At least I can say that neither CP or BPM conflict with this.

Edited October 11, 2020 by Elric Galad

[AndreaColombo]

@Elric GaladIn theory it should be possible to copy exclusively the part of the progression table you intend to alter and modify it. That would make the file significantly more manageable and ensure compatibility with other mods that touch upon progression tables (provided that they didn’t change the same part as your mod does, of course.)

I haven’t modded Deadfire in a long time, but back in the day that’s how I coded all of my mods (copying only the lines I was modifying and nothing else.)

Edited October 11, 2020 by AndreaColombo

[Noqn]

43 minutes ago, AndreaColombo said:

@Elric GaladIn theory it should be possible to copy exclusively the part of the progression table you intend to alter and modify it.

Issue is that any modifications to the AbilityUnlocks array of the BaseProgressionTableComponent will override the original entirely.

Obsidian thankfully added the BaseProgressionTableAppendGameData which allows you to seamlessly add new abilities, but there's no way to modify or remove existing ones. Progression Table editing truly is a pain in the ass.

2 hours ago, Hoo said:

By the way, is it possible to move all of Wildstrike Frenzy abilities' level from 8 to 7? I mean, not for this mod but for my own modification with this mod. I opened cl.druid.wildstrike_frenzy.gamedatabundle file, however, I really don't know what I should modify or add. Any advice would be really appreciated!

Try this: wildstrike frenzy pl7.zip

For future reference:

1. Copypaste the entire PT_Druid object (almost 10k lines woo) in progressiontables.gamedatabundle to your .gamedatabundle mod file.
2. Search for the four "PL 8 Unlock - Wildstrike [...]" entries.
3. In each of them, go to Prerequisites -> PowerLevelRequirement -> MinimumPowerLevel, set the value from 8 to 7.
4. In abilities.gamedatabundle, search for the four "Wildstrike_Frenzy_" objects
5. Paste them to your .gamedatabundle like this and make sure to set AbilityLevel (in GenericAbilityComponent) from 8 to 7:

{
    "$type": "Game.GameData.GenericAbilityGameData, Assembly-CSharp",
    "DebugName": "Wildstrike_Frenzy_[...],
    "ID": "[...]",
    "Components": [
        {
            "$type": "Game.GameData.GenericAbilityComponent, Assembly-CSharp",
            "AbilityLevel": 7
        }
    ]
}

[Elric Galad]

49 minutes ago, AndreaColombo said:

@Elric GaladIn theory it should be possible to copy exclusively the part of the progression table you intend to alter and modify it. That would make the file significantly more manageable and ensure compatibility with other mods that touch upon progression tables (provided that they didn’t change the same part as your mod does, of course.)

I haven’t modded Deadfire in a long time, but back in the day that’s how I coded all of my mods (copying only the lines I was modifying and nothing else.)

In theory this is indeed the way most things can be modded.
In practice, Progression Tables are the exception. Elements in it are within a list without Type.

[AndreaColombo]

I see. Bit of a bummer, then.

On an unrelated note, I have a (hopefully small) request. Some items from your mod are actually bug or glitch fixes from either the base game or the Community Patch. Would you mind separating these fixes from the rest of the mod into their own package?

It would make sense for people who want the game mechanics to behave consistently / as advertised, but may not want to play with house rules.

Adding scaling to certain abilities that lacked it (e.g. Pallegina’s special ability, Wrath of the Five Suns) would fall into the fix category, IMO, as they make the game behave consistently.

[Hoo]

Thank you so much, Noqn! I'll try to use the file! Thank you!

[Elric Galad]

21 hours ago, AndreaColombo said:

On an unrelated note, I have a (hopefully small) request. Some items from your mod are actually bug or glitch fixes from either the base game or the Community Patch. Would you mind separating these fixes from the rest of the mod into their own package?

It would make sense for people who want the game mechanics to behave consistently / as advertised, but may not want to play with house rules.

Adding scaling to certain abilities that lacked it (e.g. Pallegina’s special ability, Wrath of the Five Suns) would fall into the fix category, IMO, as they make the game behave consistently.

This is not a small request

1) Consider that the line between Bugfix and Houserule isn't that clear. Scaling for Passive abilities is consistently not applied, so it may not be seen as a bug. Is increased cost for Chanter upgraded Invocation a leftover glitch or a design ? Each Kills fed his Fury applying stat boost instead of Inspiration like its unuppragded version : glitch or design ? Eoathas 3rd Incarnate not working : this one is a bug, but replacing her by another 2nd Incaranate is basically a bug fixed by a houserule. All missing Keywords : Bugs or Design ? Perplexing Sap : Bug or Joke ?
I know that there are examples that are more obvious bugfix, but I would rather let players decide :
Consider that the modified abilities all have their own file, so picking you want is already relatively easy.

2) That leads me to the second point : Files are split between abilities, but there might be several changes for a single ability within a common file, and some might be bugfixes while other are Houserules. WotFS is indeed a good example.
Changing the files is relatively easy, but what is more annoying is having to re-test all split abilities. Because there could be syntax error and stuff like that. This is very time consuming... and honnestly not very rewarding for me (my second child is arriving in a handful of months, so my ambitions about the polishing mod are now focused on essential/simple/rewarding stuff...).
However, I think there's a handful of abilities in that case. The rest can be done by picking.

3)And there should be other mods that could do it anyway  
I won't be too angry if someone "got inspired" about my bugfix to make her/his own package
(I would be more angry if the balancing stuff was copied...)
 

On another topic : I did what I can to make Fury Weapon work with Driving Flight, I tried to code it as close as possible from Watershaper's Focus, but it didn't work. I'm afraid Fury Ranger won't have specific feat . Fury can provide an early source of bounce for an Arcane Archer, and Watershaper Focus isn't too bad for Fury either (use Arcane Archer Imbue before shifting then) so the build is still decent. Fury won't have provided something better than Watershaper Focus anyway, so the combo was more fun than unique.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Elric Galad

[Hoo]

16 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

On another topic : I did what I can to make Fury Weapon work with Driving Flight, I tried to code it as close as possible from Watershaper's Focus, but it didn't work. I'm afraid Fury Ranger won't have specific feat . Fury can provide an early source of bounce for an Arcane Archer, and Watershaper Focus isn't too bad for Fury either (use Arcane Archer Imbue before shifting then) so the build is still decent. Fury won't have provided something better than Watershaper Focus anyway, so the combo was more fun than unique.

Oh, it's sad news for me... The things you've done, however, is just the one of the greatest ever I seen at this forum! I'll try to play Shifter/Something multiclass with an additional change made by Noqn.

[AndreaColombo]

@Elric Galad Fair points, and congratulations on your second soon-to-be born!

I will then prepare my own package from your files for personal use

[Elric Galad]

OK, so here comes Version 1.3.1 patchnotes :

Added Saphires and Rubies in Una's shop. Reverted Adran Ban back to its original 850 gold cost.

Added Acid Keyword to following Wizard's spells :
Minoletta's Minor Missile
Concelhaut's Draining Siphon
(Concelhaut's Draining Touch  was added by the latest version of CP. It had a bug - no KW to the spell itself, only the attack - but I fixed it)
Caedebald's Blackbow (the attack had the KW, but not the spell itself : I added it to align with Firebrand Design)
Minoletta's Missile Salvo

Corrected Fractured Volition Display bug

@Sergeant Arch Dornanmight be interested in this for his russian translation.

https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/438

Edited October 13, 2020 by Elric Galad

[Sergeant Arch Dornan]

Just one string was needed to add (to new Fractured Volition description). I updated translation.

[AndreaColombo]

@Elric GaladHow about adding weapon proficiencies to summoned weapons that currently lack them?

Kalakoth's Minor Blights could use the Wand proficiency like they did in the first game.

Not sure whether Rot Skulls have a proficiency assigned?

Nannasin's Cobra Strike could use the Fist proficiency, perhaps?

@Boeroer are there others, off the top of your head?

[Elric Galad]

32 minutes ago, AndreaColombo said:

@Elric GaladHow about adding weapon proficiencies to summoned weapons that currently lack them?

Kalakoth's Minor Blights could use the Wand proficiency like they did in the first game.

Not sure whether Rot Skulls have a proficiency assigned?

Nannasin's Cobra Strike could use the Fist proficiency, perhaps?

@Boeroer are there others, off the top of your head?

Well, that would be a design change. 
Spiritshifted Weapons should also be covered. Ogre Form too. 
Might cause powercreeping. 
Only good reason to do that for me would be Fighter's class interaction with Proficiencies.

Fist proficiency might have very weird interaction with Monk/unarmed Monastic Training. I should check how Woedica's fists work.

What do the others think about this ?

[AndreaColombo]

My primary reason for suggesting this change is so those weapons could benefit from the Devoted's passive—but of course if it creates issues elsewhere, it might not be worth it.

[Boeroer]

Woedica's fists did profit from Transcendent Suffering and Monastic Unarmed Training when that new priest class was released. The result was a potentially overpowered summoned weapon which could have double scaling. Insane weapons values were the result (with raw lash on top). So the devs removed the support for MUT/TS and kept the normal weapon scaling. 

Hence I think Spiritshift weapons shouldn't gain the status "unarmed" either because the problem would be the same: double scaling (from weapon quality and MUT/TS).

No idea if you could add the "unarmed" label so that Fighters would be happy but keep it from scaling with those two abilites...?

So, adding "unarmed" proficiency is a special case because it breaks balance 100% if done like before. 

With other weapons the balancing problems shouldn't be there - unless the proficiency's modal somehow screws it up (imagine Minor Blights would be a rod and gained the Blast modal --> AoE * AoE --> too good, see PoE).

ButI can't think of any severe problems with the summoned weapons @AndreaColombomentioned once you add proficiencies. There's no disadvantage for anybody if you add them. Also we already have some summoned weapons that have them (Blackbow, Firebrand, Spirit Lance etc.) and I never read about a balance-breaking interaction between modal/proficiency and summoned weapon. Citzal's Spirit Lance could have been if the modal applied to the AoE - but it doesn't.

I think the only reason why those weapons don't have a proficiency is that they don't really fit neatly into one of the weapon categories. Blights are small elemental objects that you throw (description), Cobra Strike are two snakes that work kind of like whips I assume, Rot Skulls are... well... rotten skulls that you hurl and so on. Maybe the devs didn't want to squeeze them into a category where they didn't fit 100%. 

Minor Blights as wand would be cool with me, Rot Skulls as scepter, too. Cobra Strike... no idea. It's a ranged weapon with melee reach range. 

Just to be on the safe side though: If you could make it so that the Devoted or Fighters in general gets their passive bonuses but that the modal isn't available: that would be the best solution. No idea if that's doable. 

Tl;dr: Proficiency "Light" - just enable Fighter goodies (Devoted, Confident Aim etc.) with those weapons but do not unlock additional scaling and modals. If possible.

 

Edited October 15, 2020 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad]

Adding "Unarmed" type to a summoned weapon and even compatibility with Haymaker without getting the Monkish scaling is most likely doable since it is what Woedica's fists do.


Adding or not adding modal for all summoned weapon is a choice. Haymakerish modals aren't good enough to cause problems IMHO.
It could help consistency of ruleset to have modals for all weapons. It makes comparisons easier.

Buffing a bit Spiritshift weapons wouldn't be bad. There might even be a chance that it causes Fury Weapon to work with Driving Flight

Preliminary list of weapons :

- Cobras

- Minor Blight

- Rot Skulls

- All spiritshift weapons, including fury ones

- Transmuter Ogre fists

EDIT : also Reaping Knives

Edited October 15, 2020 by Elric Galad

[Boeroer]

While you're at it: the Ogre's armor is a discrace. I think it has such awful stats because somebody thought that the Ogre's fists would be too strong without the armor's recovery malus. I disagree. Atm Form of the Fearsome Brute is used by almost nobody in earnest since it's just not good. You already lock yourself out of casting - the upside should be a real upside then (meaning martial prowess). Doesn't have to be as strong as Citzal's Martial Power maybe - but you can' use both at the same time anyway so maybe it should be similarly decent.

[AndreaColombo]

I think the balancing mod already does something about Form of the Fearsome Brute:

Quote

Form of the Fearsome Brute changes :
- Form of the Fearsome Brute Armor : +100% Recovery -> +20% Recovery
- Form of the FearsomeBrute Fist : 13-25 damages, 6 PEN -> 18-24 damages, 7 PEN
- Form ofthe Fearsome Brute duration : 30s -> 20s
- Form of theFearsome Brute duration : +1 Engagement -> +3
Note: these changes also apply to Form of the Fearsome Brute Potions
 

 

[Elric Galad]

4 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

While you're at it: the Ogre's armor is a discrace. I think it has such awful stats because somebody thought that the Ogre's fists would be too strong without the armor's recovery malus. I disagree. Atm Form of the Fearsome Brute is used by almost nobody in earnest since it's just not good. You already lock yourself out of casting - the upside should be a real upside then (meaning martial prowess). Doesn't have to be as strong as Citzal's Martial Power maybe - but you can' use both at the same time anyway so maybe it should be similarly decent.

Ogre's armor has already been changed for a while as part of the BPM wizard's changes, though.

EDIT : Ninjaed

Edited October 15, 2020 by Elric Galad

[Boeroer]

Ah oops.

[Elric Galad]

5 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Ah oops.

Did you really believe that something that obvious would still have been unadressed in BPM 1.3.1  ?

[Elric Galad]

20 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Preliminary list of weapons :

- Cobras : Stiletto ? Sorts of fit fluff-wise

- Minor Blight : Scepter. Raw self damages from multiple targets woud help preventing any OP-ness.

- Rot Skulls : Scepter

- All spiritshift weapons : unarmed

including fury ones : wand

- Transmuter Ogre fists : unarmed

EDIT : also Reaping Knives : dagger

Added the fitting modals for me.

[AndreaColombo]

I'd rather go with Wand for the blights, for consistency with the first game.

Cobras can be Unarmed as well, IMO (though any proficiency is better than no proficiency.)