SC Chanter Build Advice

[dgray62]

I was thinking of trying out a single class chanter, almost certainly a troubadour, as my MC for a no rest run, to take advantage of Sasha's singing scimitar for one empowered invocation per encounter. Given that it would be in melee, I was thinking of using a shield in the offhand to make the character more durable. Ultimately I'd like to use Weyc's oracular focus, to further boost the empowered invocations, and Lethandria's Devotion earlier.  I was thinking that the MC would be more offensive, using phrases like Thick Grew their Tongues and Long Night's Drink to soften up enemies so the invocations will land, and will have a Herald companion to do more defensive phrases. I was wondering if anyone had any tips on building a melee oriented chanter to make them more durable early and mid-game, aside from just equipping a shield.

[Boeroer]

The Least Unstable Coil will grant you multiple inspirations with an Empowered "Her Revenge" because every lightning strike triggers the enchantment (for whatever reason) so I'd advise you to pick that invocation. It's very good anyways. 

A Bellower can stack his bonus PLs from collected phrases (up to 7) with those of Empower - which can lead to pretty spectacular damage numbers (I mean if you want to maximize the outcome of that one empowered invocation - and invocations in general). Of course he can't refill as quickly as Troubadour, but the impact on individual invoctions is bigger. 

Eld Nary's Curse is most likely the invocation that profits from PLs most. It becomes very very strong. But the buff of the Bellower is actually too short to cover all the jumps from Eld Nary. The last ones will have a bit lower damage. Still the PLs determine the number of jumps - so it's great nonetheless.   

Don't forget White Worms. It does very high damage with enough PLs. Because its base damage is quite high. It's great if you focus-fire one enemy down and then use it for great impact. Doesn't need to be empowered to be good. 

If you want more sturdyness: the Old Siec chant works with Invocations - so you can get good health from damaging enemies with Eld Nary or Her Revenge etc. If you make your Herald a Steel Garrote he can drain twice: from his passive and your chant. If you add a Furyshaper with Blood Ward: even thrice (your Furyshaper and you: twice).

 

Edited April 16, 2020 by Boeroer

[dgray62]

Thanks for the tips, Boeroer. I can see a party with a SC chanter, Steel Garrote Herald and a SC Furyshaper Barbarian at its core. I'll definitely get "Her Revenge;" it will be a bread and butter invocation for this character. I'll try White Worms too. I used it all the time in POE 1, but haven't tried it in POE 2 because I read in old posts that it was bugged and doesn't proc consistently. Hopefully this bug has been fixed. I'll read up more on bellower as well; I've never tried this subclass before.

[Boeroer]

I hadn't problems with White Worms lately. But that was during testing sessions. I didn't do a proper playthrough lately.

Maybe the upgrade is bugged. Maybe that's it. I don't take it because I think it's not worth the ability point.

SC Furyshaper can be build towards Barbaric Retaliation with Battle Axes, Panther's Leap and Blood Storm. Because Blood Ward is the only ability that drains health from every tick of all DoTs (including chants). That means if you land with Panther's Leap, then retaliate with Bleeding Cuts and Blood Storm you will apply so many DoTs in parallel that Blood Ward keeps you alive against almost anything. Also the PL-9 shouts will drain a hell of health if yoi spam them, especially if you have Old Siec and Ward active. 

That also means that Brand Enemy will drain health with every tick as long as it's active. You can spam it to all enemies if you want and drain health with every tick of it (with Blood Ward). 

Cipher's drain a ton with Disintegrate. Wizards drain double with Corrosive Siphon... and so on. SC Furyshaper is my personal favorite atm.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Boeroer

[dgray62]

Thanks, Boeroer. I think I am going to do a run with a SC chanter, SC Furyshaper, SC Ascendant, SC Woedica priest, and Steel Garrote/beguiler inquisitor (wielding WotEP). I just have to decide which to make my MC. Maybe the Ascendant, since they seem to require the most micromanagement.

[mjo2138]

On 4/16/2020 at 6:29 PM, dgray62 said:

Thanks, Boeroer. I think I am going to do a run with a SC chanter, SC Furyshaper, SC Ascendant, SC Woedica priest, and Steel Garrote/beguiler inquisitor (wielding WotEP). I just have to decide which to make my MC. Maybe the Ascendant, since they seem to require the most micromanagement.

Did you end up trying a SC Troubadour? Was it worth it over an MC Helwalker/Troubadour? I am thinking of trying an SC Troubadour, but I am torn. 

[dgray62]

No, I went instead with SC bellower for the PL bonus. But troubadour is probably the most versatile choice I think.

[mjo2138]

10 hours ago, dgray62 said:

No, I went instead with SC bellower for the PL bonus. But troubadour is probably the most versatile choice I think.

Thanks! I will probably go to Troubadour too, but it'd be fun to see what the PL bonuses can do. 

[mjo2138]

Is there any real reason to choose SC Chanter over Mutliclass? I wanna focus on offensive invocations and debuts and CC, not summons

[Constentin Lévine]

On 4/16/2020 at 6:15 PM, Boeroer said:

Because Blood Ward is the only ability that drains health from every tick of all DoTs (including chants).

It is not the only one  Old Siec also does, but without green numbers on the top of the characters. With Old Siec, Disintegrate refund the cipher's life per tick I mean, but you cant see it excepted at the looking of our health pool. Mabe also in the combat log but I'm not sure, I have seen that in september

[Constentin Lévine]

2 hours ago, mjo2138 said:

Is there any real reason to choose SC Chanter over Mutliclass? I wanna focus on offensive invocations and debuts and CC, not summons

Imo the best reason to choose SC Chanter is Tekehu ; in other case, Chanter as a martial MC greatly benefit to front line, granting to the melee part of the party some versatility and independence (CC). 

[NotDumbEnough]

The tornado invocation with all the extra bounces is extremely powerful and is basically 80% of the reason you might want to single class a Skald. You're also able to pick all of the +damage/accuracy/penetration with empowered attacks perks which further makes it absolutely ridiculous, as long as the enemy doesn't have spell reflection you can end many fights with just a single invocation.

[Elric Galad]

4 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

The tornado invocation with all the extra bounces is extremely powerful and is basically 80% of the reason you might want to single class a Skald. You're also able to pick all of the +damage/accuracy/penetration with empowered attacks perks which further makes it absolutely ridiculous, as long as the enemy doesn't have spell reflection you can end many fights with just a single invocation.

Extremely powerful, yes, but has the unfortunate habit to bounce back on my party quite often. I don't know it it was due to Confusion (stronger against your party than vs foes) or Spell Reflection effects. 

IMHO Chanter is meh as Single Class, since a MC can do ~75% of what SC can do while doing some other stuff too (hence the BPM buff).

 

But yeah Single Class Skald can cast 4 Tornadoes in a row by empowering the second with Sasha's full phrase back ability. If it is not bounced and you're not facing a Megaboss, you win.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Elric Galad

[thelee]

with the right party, a non-summon focused SC chanter is still brutal thanks to that tier 9 invocation that regenerates a class resource. you need a spellcaster-heavy party, probably single-classed.

imagine this opener:

1. from stealth, druid and wizard cast great maelstrom and minoletta's missile salvo.

2. combat begins, use chanter's starting phrases to immediately restore those casts to the druid and wizard.

3. re-cast greater maelstrom and minolett's missile salvo.

4. you've just finished most fights in the game. including some boss fights, if you empower those opening spell casts. you can also have chanter with weyc's robe and empower the invocation (even though it doesn't benefit the invocation) to accelerate the chanter's chants; or have sasha's enchanted to restore all phrases, so you can quickly do the tier 9 spellcasts a third time. then you'll probably be able to clear out all but the megabosses in the game.

edit: you probably don't even need a party. the tier 9 spells are so good that even if you have only one druid, wizard, or priest (though priests should drop symbols) that it makes it worth picking up that invocation as a SC chanter.

edit 2: i did this in my last run and it kicked butt

Edited January 9, 2023 by thelee

[Not So Clever Hound]

@thelee you can even use Greater Maelstrom as a trap-like tool to pull enemies and start getting damaged by it while you already got the spell back and are casting the second one along with your wizard buddy casting salvo or meteor shower cast at an obscene power level. Then everything else  

[dgray62]

9 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

The tornado invocation with all the extra bounces is extremely powerful and is basically 80% of the reason you might want to single class a Skald. You're also able to pick all of the +damage/accuracy/penetration with empowered attacks perks which further makes it absolutely ridiculous, as long as the enemy doesn't have spell reflection you can end many fights with just a single invocation.

In my experience it's spell reflection that does you in with this invocation. I once wiped out my entire party casting it at Nemnok with a SC Bellower with obscenely an obscenely high PL as well as lightning lashes from Sasha's and Deltro's helm. While it's fun to use, I never use it against spell casters any more. Her Revenge or Her Tears works much better against them as they don't seem to be reflected, at least in my experience. Never wiped out a party with them!

Edited January 9, 2023 by dgray62

[thelee]

57 minutes ago, dgray62 said:

In my experience it's spell reflection that does you in with this invocation. I once wiped out my entire party casting it at Nemnok with a SC Bellower with obscenely an obscenely high PL as well as lightning lashes from Sasha's and Deltro's helm.

yep

after a while my rule of thumb became, don't use that tornado invocation in any fight with high-level kith wizards or fampyrs. they will use spell reflection, and even if the battlefield looks clear at the moment, the invocation bounces so slowly, they'll probably pop it up while it's in flight.

 

Quote

While it's fun to use, I never use it against spell casters any more. Her Revenge or Her Tears works much better against them as they don't seem to be reflected, at least in my experience. Never wiped out a party with them!

i think Her Tears are area effects, technically, instead of projectiles. e.g. like rolling flame instead of necrotic lance.

though this reminds me of the most ignominious party wipe i've ever done. empowered Her Tears, split-second before the invocation casting completed my skald got confused (don't remember, but i think it was one of those high level shadow-type creatures that can do that). of course my party was clustered next to each other, that was a ton of damage in an instant that instantly wiped out everyone (incl chanter from the smaller additional shards upon impact) and killed Vela, to boot. never had a fight go so quickly from "absolutely winning" to "instant loss" so quickly.

Edited January 9, 2023 by thelee

[Not So Clever Hound]

17 minutes ago, thelee said:

split-second before the invocation casting completed my skald got confused

Conversely, when you cast Confusion on enemies, it's like you're actively trying to waste a spell slot .

Well to be fair, there is one enemy really worth Confusing, the giant grub-like miniboss near the end of SSS. Weakness to Intellect Affliction suddenly turns a somewhat useless spell into a super long duration AoE Charm. But you have to actively look for the few enemies weak to INT affliction in the game.

[Elric Galad]

4 hours ago, thelee said:

with the right party, a non-summon focused SC chanter is still brutal thanks to that tier 9 invocation that regenerates a class resource. you need a spellcaster-heavy party, probably single-classed.

imagine this opener:

1. from stealth, druid and wizard cast great maelstrom and minoletta's missile salvo.

2. combat begins, use chanter's starting phrases to immediately restore those casts to the druid and wizard.

3. re-cast greater maelstrom and minolett's missile salvo.

4. you've just finished most fights in the game. including some boss fights, if you empower those opening spell casts. you can also have chanter with weyc's robe and empower the invocation (even though it doesn't benefit the invocation) to accelerate the chanter's chants; or have sasha's enchanted to restore all phrases, so you can quickly do the tier 9 spellcasts a third time. then you'll probably be able to clear out all but the megabosses in the game.

edit: you probably don't even need a party. the tier 9 spells are so good that even if you have only one druid, wizard, or priest (though priests should drop symbols) that it makes it worth picking up that invocation as a SC chanter.

edit 2: i did this in my last run and it kicked butt

Yes, it's nice with the right party, but a simple Ciper, even Multiclass can help a buddy casting a Missile Salvo or Maelstorm every 6s thanks to Ancestor's Memory. In certain cases (SC chanter + 4 SC spellcaster party) the SC Chanter can do better, especially as an opener, but I would consider the Cipher to be in the same league.

Granted that BPM uses this particular invocation as a base of SC Chanter design (it regenerates 2 ressources / 2 spells of the same tier except chanter's - but it is basically the same for Tier 9 since this Tier only has 1 cast) while it nerfs Brilliant.

[thelee]

3 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

the SC Chanter can do better, especially as an opener,

yeah it's definitely about it being an alpha strike than anything else, and also for ~2 casters who can dump spells at the opening instead of just one ally getting support.

once the fight goes on for a while, repeatable (and outside bpm, infinitely salvation-of-time-able) brilliant of course trumps everything.

edit: and if you have the chanter with weyc's, then all of this breaks down into barely-differentiable cheese anyway, since an empowered resource-restoring invocation will also grant brilliant (and the chanter gets boosted phrases, which is kind of like brilliant)

Edited January 10, 2023 by thelee

[mjo2138]

I've tried an SC Beckoner, but honestly I don't think it is for me. If I wanna be a spellcaster main,  I'd rather just be a Wizard or Druid.  There is a lot of down time between chants, and on POTD upscaled - I am just an auto attack bot until  I can cast again. The idea of having huge numbers of summons is good; having 6 wurms or 6 wisps is great.  However ,I think balancing this with a martial class is much better (fighter, rogue, barb) would be better.  

[Constentin Lévine]

I agree with your point, SC chanter as pure spellcaster is tedious, excepted with some equipments (at less for the Tekehu subclass*). Multiclassed, chanter are really nice to play with some martial classes (mage slayer - chanter with Effort ; Trickster -chanter for defensive spells et high dps etc, between spell casting) and with a full party, very versatile and potent character. I have a FF monk - chanter as main in several save.

 

*

of course, with some late game contents..

[dgray62]

A FF monk/stormspeaker MC build is very fun, although only possible if you use mods.

[mjo2138]

That would be fun - Now I am running an SC Troubadour and I like it . I am more like caster than anything, but it is fun to try out some of the SC chanter skills at PL 8 and 9 I usually don't try. I do have fleeting memories of using a few of them back when Deadfire came out, but it has been a while. Phew it has been even longer since POE 1! 

I have a party now of Eder (fighter) Xoti, Aloth, and Tekehu , all SC casters. I feel like I've ran so many games with them in the party. Having 3 aoe caster is just so powerful it is hard to choose a different party. Tekehu really needs some PER so Xoti can solve them. Recently I've run Aloth to focus on terrifying enemies, which is so much fun if you have a fighter who can benefit from disengagement attacks. Well anyone can benefit from it, actually! Maybe I will bring Serafen back as a Witch to handle that with LDV. 

[dgray62]

What chanter phrases do you use with your Troubadour, @mjo2138? Troubadour is a great subclass, but it seems to me that some chants benefit from brisk recitation (such as offensive ones so they'll proc more often), while others benefit from the extra long linger, like the defensive or beneficial chants. I usually end up not going with troubadour because I get paralyzed with indecision regarding which chants to use, and whether or not to use the brisk recitation modal. Any advice would be welcome.