Multiclassing a shifter druid

[elohinen]

Argh, I just can't decide! Obviously I'm only thinking about martial classes in order to bolster the shifted forms.. Besides, the shifter's spell selection is quite solid too, so I probably won't be picking a lot extra spells. 

 

My first character was a berserker/monk and the party had two multiclassed rogues, so I'd like to avoid using those again...

Played around with a stalker/shifter a bit, but it felt too passive for my tastes.

That would only leave a fighter as a choice, but afaik it doesn't compliment shifter very well. Devoted's bonus doesn't apply to a shifter's claws, right? And I guess since a shifter isn't considered to be 'proficient' with their claws, then they won't benefit from passives like confident aim and the weapons mastery either? Unbroken and blackjacket don't really offer anything to shifter, so that would leave only vanilla fighter and I wouldn't mind that, but even with that, I wouldn't be able to take full advantage of the class. Again, if I'm understanding things correctly here..

 

Any thoughts and links to builds are very welcome indeed!

this one seems pretty nice, but like I said, I just played a barbarian, so I'd like something else..

 

P.s. playing on console, so any shifter mods are a no-go.

[thelee]

1 hour ago, elohinen said:

Devoted's bonus doesn't apply to a shifter's claws, right?

not only does it not apply to shifter, but because you don't have proficiency with them, you actually get the penalties.

tactician wouldn't be bad choice, but not a particularly great choice either. unbroken does give you bonus engagement even while shifted; not nothing, but again, not great.

 

have you considered paladin? i haven't done a paladin/shifter (or really any paladin/druid) before, but some thoughts:

• you can use lay on hands while shapeshifted, in case you have some emergency heals and are in too dangerous a situation (or something else) to unshapeshift first
• flames of devotion would work pretty well with shapeshift claws, and as a kind wayfarer you would be spamming heals all the while (works per hit, so 2x heals for dual-wielded, like when spiritshifted). bleakwalkers also not bad.
• depending on your talents and specialization, you could choose to become very tanky.

 

other than that, my only other Big Idea was trickster, but you said you wanted to avoid multiclassing rogue.

 

[Boeroer]

Paladin/Shifter? Maybe Steel Garotte? For a druid it's easy to afflict enemies and the draining + Exalthed Endurance is nice.

Goldpact is another good pick because of Gilded Enmity. 

Bleak Walker for additional FoD damage.

Eternal Devotion stacks with Wildstrike.

Edit: @thelee you old ninja!

 

Edited March 2, 2020 by Boeroer

[Phenomenum]

51 minutes ago, thelee said:

other than that, my only other Big Idea was trickster

I'm playing with shifter/trickter and it's totally fine, fun, end effective. Trickster spells is very useful for defense (Mirrorred Image, LLiengath) + solid single target damage and fast movement across the battlefield trough Rogue "teleport" + druid spells. No need for most Rogue active abilities because Afllictions can be applied via druid spells or by other team members. All and all, my favorite multiclass so far. I only miss a Crush damage in shifter form.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Phenomenum

[Boeroer]

Oh by the way: Eternal Devotion's lash works with every direct damage ability, spells included! That's lash damage for your storms etc.

[elohinen]

Heh, how did I forget about paladin completely?! Could be I ruled them out, because I'm already thinking about my (currently only hypothetical) third MC being an paladin/cipher multiclass, hahah.

 

4 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Oh by the way: Eternal Devotion's lash works with every direct damage ability, spells included! That's lash damage for your storms etc.

Hmm, that does sound quite powerful, at least on paper. So, eternal devotion + wildstrike burn + scion of flames? Would it work the same way as a monk with lightning strikes + wildstrike shock + heart of storms?

15 hours ago, thelee said:

not only does it not apply to shifter, but because you don't have proficiency with them, you actually get the penalties.

tactician wouldn't be bad choice, but not a particularly great choice either. unbroken does give you bonus engagement even while shifted; not nothing, but again, not great.

 

have you considered paladin? i haven't done a paladin/shifter (or really any paladin/druid) before, but some thoughts:

• you can use lay on hands while shapeshifted, in case you have some emergency heals and are in too dangerous a situation (or something else) to unshapeshift first
• flames of devotion would work pretty well with shapeshift claws, and as a kind wayfarer you would be spamming heals all the while (works per hit, so 2x heals for dual-wielded, like when spiritshifted). bleakwalkers also not bad.
• depending on your talents and specialization, you could choose to become very tanky.

 

other than that, my only other Big Idea was trickster, but you said you wanted to avoid multiclassing rogue.

 

That's a real shame about devoted... I was practically salivating thinking about casting a storm spell and then using Charge - would be good damage and so much cc - especially in turn-based mode. It would still be possible even with vanilla fighter, but too bad many of the passives won't help. Paladin would have access many of the same resistance passives as fighter though... Decision, decisions

14 hours ago, Phenomenum said:

I'm playing with shifter/trickter and it's totally fine, fun, end effective. Trickster spells is very useful for defense (Mirrorred Image, LLiengath) + solid single target damage and fast movement across the battlefield trough Rogue "teleport" + druid spells. No need for most Rogue active abilities because Afllictions can be applied via druid spells or by other team members. All and all, my favorite multiclass so far. I only miss a Crush damage in shifter form.

When 2/3 replies mention the same multiclass, it gets me intrigued! First off, stupid question: one can cast the bonus spells even when shifted? They're counted as rogue abilities with trickster, not spells? How was your stat spread? I reckon you didn't minimize resolve like usual?

 

You can now forget the previous limitations - would like to hear about any (martial) class combos with shifter.

 

Corpse eater + shifter tempts me from a rp perspective, but based on my previous multiclass barbarian, I kinda feel like barbarian would work best a single class build; doubly so for corpse eater, because of the increased rage cost to everything..

Ran into this kind of build:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1421041053

Any thoughts? If I'm not mistaken, it was made during launch of the game (when PotD was apparently much easier than in 5.0), but I would be playing it in a party, so it would maybe even out..

 

Pardon all these questions, but honestly a surprising amount of the fun from this game (for me) comes from just thinking about and discussing different builds

[Boeroer]

2 hours ago, elohinen said:

Hmm, that does sound quite powerful, at least on paper. So, eternal devotion + wildstrike burn + scion of flames? Would it work the same way as a monk with lightning strikes + wildstrike shock + heart of storms?

Yes, basically the same mechanics. If you are a Bleak Walker you can also get Spirit of Decay and get +1 PEN from Scion of Flame AND +1 PEN from Spirit of Decay for every FoD-execution. THey stack becauser FoD has fire and corrode keywords for Bleak Walkers. Don't know if it's worth the ability point just for FoD though because Druids have some "decay" spells but not really "corrode" spells.

Also Ring of Focused Flames will still work when shifted and give your FoD attacks (and also Firebrand attacks should you use it and of course all fire-keyworded spells) +10 accuracy. That's a +10 ACC bonus for the FoD execution. Unfortunately it doesn't apply to auto-attacks or spells that merely get the burning lash from Eternal Devotion.
I don't know if Wildstrike Burn is also affected nowadays..? Guess not. Usually a lash is not enough to make the Ring apply its bonus - attacks or weapons have to be keyworded with "fire". But I'm not sure.

I saw a video of a Goldpact Knight/Bear Druid and the stacked AR (bear has +2 bonus, Paladin gets some great passives/auras and Gilded Enmity basiocalölöy for free once he has Sworn Rival) with 0 recovery is a great mix of sturdyness and offensive melee power.

2 hours ago, elohinen said:

First off, stupid question: one can cast the bonus spells even when shifted? They're counted as rogue abilities with trickster, not spells?

Totally smart question. Yes: they work when shifted.

Corpse Eater/Shifter makes a lot of sense thematically. Blood Thirst + DoT spells like Plague of Insects and Insect Swarm (cast before shifting) is brutal. I would focus on the Corpse Eater's passives and Frenzy and maybe utilize Barbaric Smash as finisher with Bloody Slaughter. You will only regain 2 Rage (will cost 3) but that's better than no Full Attack ability I guess. Furyshaper/Shifter is a more potent choice. Terrifying ward is very powerful...

Shifter/Streetfighter is nice, but you have to get flanked to make the most of Streetfighter. It can work but you have to watch out. I consider Trickster the better subclass for Shifter as long as you don't utilize blunderbusses/mortars as a Streetfighter (then it's outright overpowered). Of course Trickster/Shifter is thematically... special...

2 hours ago, elohinen said:

Pardon all these questions, but honestly a surprising amount of the fun from this game (for me) comes from just thinking about and discussing different builds

Why do you think I'm still around?

 

[Phenomenum]

4 hours ago, elohinen said:

one can cast the bonus spells even when shifted?

Yes, you can cast Trickster spells in shifted form.

4 hours ago, elohinen said:

How was your stat spread? I reckon you didn't minimize resolve like usual?

MIG 15
CON 8
DEX 15
PER 18
INT 15
RES 7
 

[thelee]

6 hours ago, Phenomenum said:

Yes, you can cast Trickster spells in shifted form

to clarify, for shifter restrictions and mage slayer disruption it seems like something counts as magic if and only if it came from a priest, cipher, chanter, wizard, druid or a non-kith equivalent (like xaurips or delemgan). any other source, even if they are functionally identical, doesn't count as magic. (obviously i haven't tested every single case, but that's my rule of thumb)

Edited March 3, 2020 by thelee

[elohinen]

Thanks for all the answers so far!

 

It's starting look like a shifter/trickster is going to be taking on the Deadfire archipelago tomorrow! Now I just need to resist the urge to name him ****. Maybe something adjacent to him? Baldur? Sleipnir? Atreus?

 

6 hours ago, Phenomenum said:

Yes, you can cast Trickster spells in shifted form.

MIG 15
CON 8
DEX 15
PER 18
INT 15
RES 7
 

Ok, so a pretty even spread. How many active skills did you pick / are planning to take? I'm thinking crippling strike, escape and finishing blow. Probably gonna upgrade both striking abilities.

Riposte any good on PotD?

 

Also, are there any rogue/druid specific items in the game? I ran into some bracers for both fighter and monk that increased their resource pools and I know one can get DoC's breastplate, if she's ripped apart by the villagers in the first game. Is there anything else?

[Phenomenum]

52 minutes ago, thelee said:

to clarify, for shifter restrictions and mage slayer disruption it seems like something counts as magic if and only if it came from a priest, cipher, chanter, wizard, druid or a non-kith equivalent (like xaurips or delemgan). any other source, even if they are functionally identical, doesn't count as magic. (obviously i haven't tested every single case, but that's my rule of thumb)

Yes. Trough Trickster spells a fully identical to Mage spells and both shares the same Attack ID's and status effects, Trickster spells doesn't blocked during spiritshift only because "UsageType": "ClassPowerPool" instead of "UsageType": "Spell". So technically they treated as generic  abilities.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Phenomenum

[Phenomenum]

44 minutes ago, elohinen said:

Ok, so a pretty even spread. How many active skills did you pick / are planning to take? I'm thinking crippling strike, escape and finishing blow. Probably gonna upgrade both striking abilities.

I don't use any strike abilities exept Finishing/Devastating blow.

44 minutes ago, elohinen said:

Riposte any good on PotD?

Nope. It's practically useless (especially for this build).

Edited March 3, 2020 by Phenomenum

[Boeroer]

It's practically useless with Turn Based mode because the miss range is basically non-existent. In RTwP it's a good passive for a Trickster/something if you use his deflection buffs and pair it with accuracy-lowering debuffs on enemies - even if it only procs occasionally: it's still a completely free Full Attack (without the -35% dmg malus by the way I think) and without any investment of Guile and action/recovery time.

For example if you have a Priest with Desponent Blows and a Wizard with Miasma I would recommend taking Riposte.

 

[Phenomenum]

6 hours ago, Boeroer said:

In RTwP it's a good passive for a Trickster/something if you use his deflection buffs and pair it with accuracy-lowering debuffs on enemies - even if it only procs occasionally: it's still a completely free Full Attack (without the -35% dmg malus by the way I think) and without any investment of Guile and action/recovery time.

It's pretty tall order. Though it depends of playstyle, but with Deflection = attacker's Acc (which is pretty high on PotD) you have only 8.3% Riposte chance. Riposte was tweaked in CP for a good reason.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Phenomenum

[Boeroer]

But that's nearly a 10% chance to do a free Full Attack just like so. It's still a passive after all.

ACC == Deflection is an extremely conservative approach. Riposte is best against numerous weak mobs. When is enemies' ACC as high as your deflection if you are using stuff like Mirrored Image and accuracy debuffs (which I presupposed when recommending Riposte)?

I mean sure: you have to build accordingly. But if a subclass is suited for Riposte then it's Trickster. 

Community Patch buff of Riposte is nice because it also allows non-deflection maxers to make somewhat decent use of Riposte. 

[Phenomenum]

31 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

mean sure: you have to build accordingly. But if a subclass is suited for Riposte then it's Trickster. 

As i said, it's very depends of playstile. Striker rogue usually doesn't attacked too much, and almost never surrounded by enemies so it's a very situative passive for ME (i mean vanilla Riposte version). Most of time attacked enemies is busy with other things (or even totally disabled) than attack my Rogue in melee.

[thelee]

17 hours ago, Phenomenum said:

Nope. It's practically useless (especially for this build).

with even a modest amount of metagaming, riposte is useful (and by "modest" i mean "don't dump resolve and equip a shield"). it's free damage, even if it only triggers a handful of times in a given fight.

it's on TB-mode where riposte basically requires massive metagaming to even have a marginal effect.

 

edit: gah! ninja'ed by @Boeroer! i don't know why notifications don't always scroll me down

Edited March 4, 2020 by thelee

[elohinen]

Fine fine hahah, I'll stay away from Riposte in TB

[elohinen]

Just a quick and final update:

Made it off Port Maje last night - no wipes or even knockouts on PotD upscaled, so I think it went well. Charm/paralyze beast spells were certainly helpful.

Mirror image feels a bit useless though, but all in all I think the adventures of Not-Loki will continue all the way to the end!

Thanks again everyone for all the answers

[Phenomenum]

1 hour ago, elohinen said:

Charm/paralyze beast spells were certainly helpful.

He-heh. Without it Arena fights can be pain in the ass.

1 hour ago, elohinen said:

Mirror image feels a bit useless though

+30 Deflection (even it decreases on hit) can't be useless. Also, you can pick Quarterstaff profficiency modal which gives +20 Deflection against Melee attacks, but +50% Recovery only for Quarterstaff attacks - so you have +20 melee deflection and no penalty for spells recovery (don't stacks with Mirrored Image, but don't decreases on hit).

[Boeroer]

Speaking of Defensive Strike: did somebody every try a Fighter or Fighter/something with Defensive Strike (+20) + Refreshing Defense (they should stack to +40)? 

Maybe even with Streetfighter (who should somewhat be able to counter the recovery malus of Defensive Strikes when flanked while staying pretty solid on the defensive end)?

[Krusified]

On 3/3/2020 at 7:33 AM, Boeroer said:

I saw a video of a Goldpact Knight/Bear Druid and the stacked AR (bear has +2 bonus, Paladin gets some great passives/auras and Gilded Enmity basiocalölöy for free once he has Sworn Rival) with 0 recovery is a great mix of sturdyness and offensive melee power.

 

I know this is a bit old, but I’ve been wanting to make a Goldpact Knight/Shifter for my first play through. Any help with stat distribution would be phenomenal! I’m planning to play TB if that helps for context.

i was thinking maybe 16/14/7/18/16/7? Again, first play through and this is my first game of the series so I’m pretty fresh to all this except what I’ve read on the forums.

[Boeroer]

7 DEX is a bit low I'd say. For your melee attacks it wouldn't be as noticable if you do FoD mostly - but recovery of initial (or in-between) spells will be slooow.

If you lower RES to 7 you might as well go down to 3 in my opinion. 

If you cast a healing over time before shifting you won't need 14 CON either I'd say. Then 10 might be enough. Also because Lay on Hands and Exalted Endurance will still be available while shifted. And you will get healed between shifts automatically as well. Maybe equip some regeneration gear later on. It will keep working while shifted as long as it's not an armor or weapon.

Stack up on AR as much as you can (basically take every AR passive of the Paladin tree).

Eternal Devotion stacks with Wildstrike. 

I would also use Hylea's Talons. They will put a raw DoT on you as well but they stack with the other lashes and your passive healing should more than outbalance that DoT. If not you can still use some other gloves. Like Boltcatchers or something. 

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by Boeroer

[AeonsLegend]

Pretty sure Hylia's Talons count as a "hit" for every tick unfortunately which means it cancels things that go away by taking damage or hits. Like Dance of Death and Mirrored Image.

[Powerotti]

2 hours ago, Boeroer said:

7 DEX is a bit low I'd say. For your melee attacks it wouldn't be as noticable if you do FoD mostly - but recovery of initial (or in-between) spells will be slooow.

 

13 hours ago, Krusified said:

I’m planning to play TB if that helps for context.

I don't have much experience with turn based, but as far as i know, dex and res are dump stats in most cases. I'd go with max might/int/per, then rest into con. Or 10 dex, 10 con, max might, int>per