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Build Thread 3.0


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1 hour ago, Humanoid said:

Fortunately that's pretty much the use case of these devices. You just install the software, it walks you through a simple guided process to get your desired result, and you're good until the next time you decide to clean-install Windows. Professionals might want to repeat the process on a regular basis, but for everyone else you just stop thinking about it.

Let me be more specific:  I'm lazy and especially regarding needing/using 3rd party tools that would likely have me fiddling even more.  You'd have to see my type of pickiness to understand. Hubby often says he can't even tell the differences while I'm complaining about skin tones and tonal shifts from one show to another.

Might work for general desktop or certain work usage but I'm dubious re: television watching and/or console behavior and HDR and company software "features" ...
This reddit thread has ppl using lg's oled tv's, and overall having a lot of gripes.
https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED/comments/jt0img/ive_spent_more_time_calibrating_my_lg_c9_than/

Edit: from that thread:  "You can just buy a like $100 Spyder calibration unit, I've used one to calibrate my monitors for years. Only works for the CX as a computer screen though, not as a TV"

I've also discovered the LG "auto dimming" feature, which you aren't allowed to turn off without buying a service remote and using it voids warranty?  So on desktop use, if I leave a browser (or anything) open untouched for 60 seconds, the screen dims drastically (eg, static image protection) then rebrightens when you click again. Kind of annoying on the eyes with constant changing. It happens even if you turn off the logo dim feature.

Edited by LadyCrimson
“Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts
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7 hours ago, LadyCrimson said:

I've also discovered the LG "auto dimming" feature, which you aren't allowed to turn off without buying a service remote and using it voids warranty?  So on desktop use, if I leave a browser (or anything) open untouched for 60 seconds, the screen dims drastically (eg, static image protection) then rebrightens when you click again. Kind of annoying on the eyes with constant changing. It happens even if you turn off the logo dim feature.

Isn't this to help prevent burn in though? It's the price you'd have to pay for the tech itself

Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken

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5 hours ago, Azdeus said:

Isn't this to help prevent burn in though? It's the price you'd have to pay for the tech itself

Well, yes, it's a less-burn-in-for-dummies feature.  It's not often an issue for TV/movie watching (I hear it can be occasionally), just an annoyance re: desktop type usage.  I don't mind if it's on by default, but there should be a supported option to turn it off without having to buy a "service remote" to access a special menu to disable/enable it etc.  Just have a giant agreement EULA message like "warning voids warranty are you sure" if you click to disable.  There's also the pixel-shift feature, which so far hasn't been noticeable.

The last desktop-use gripe is that if you have dual monitors and the TV is set as Windows  "main", turning the TV off and back on makes Windows shuffle all windows on 2nd monitor back to the TV.  Using stand-by mode instead of full-OFF didn't help. The LG LED 4k I had didn't do this. 

Ah well.  Never mind.  Games and TV look too beautiful on it. After only a couple days I don't know if I could go back, just like I can't go back to non-4k. I'll grit my teeth and try to ignore/put up with such niggles. :-  Edit: basically, as visual media showcase, A+, as a "working" desktop, B+.

Edited by LadyCrimson
“Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts
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Well, it's no wonder you get the "void warranty" message I mean. The vast, vast, vast majority of users are "speshul" when it comes to tech. 😄

Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken

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https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-allows-SAM-on-nvidia-gpus

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Since then, AMD stated in an interview with PCWorld that its Radeon group is working with Intel to get this feature supported with RX 6000-series GPUs and Intel's latest CPUs and motherboards. The same goes with AMD's Ryzen group, which is working with Nvidia to get Smart Access Memory working with GeForce GPUs.

So, now that the cat is out of the bag that you can do SAM on any vendor's hardware, provided it meets certain criteria, AMD is "helping" Intel and Nvidia to get it working on a wider range of hardware. This is obviously PR so that AMD come out of this looking like the good guys. Announce the feature and imply that you need all AMD hardware to use it (technically true right now) to get people to buy both your CPU and GPU (never mind that you can't actually buy either right now :p), then when Nvidia announce they will eventually implement the same feature, good guy AMD "helps out" so that everyone can benefit. Lisa Su, you sly fox. 😏

 

 

 

Edited by Keyrock

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They got generic BAR resize --> AMD SAM(TM) instead of the generic DXR/ VulkanRT --> nVidia RTX(TM) or DirectStorage --> nVidia RTX I/O(TM) situation, which is a win. It really is annoying how often brands try to co-opt generic terms though (see also Adaptive Sync --> FreeSync --> 'Gsync Compatible')

Edited by Zoraptor
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Today Khronos released version 1.2.162 of the Vulkan specification. What's notable about this point release is that ray tracing has been promoted from beta status to stable status. So, the fabled Vulkan ray tracing is now here and ready for mass consumption... once developers implement it in their games.

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I got my Sony Bravia X900H 55" today. Scooped it up from Best Buy for $892. Open box, but it looks brand new, not a scratch on it.

Edit: Everything is functioning perfectly. There's always a bit of nervousness when getting an open box item, but this bad boy looks and functions like it's brand spanking new and had been factory sealed. The picture quality is tremendous. 

Now I just need to finish building the rig that will play games on this TV. If only I could actually buy those last few components. :p

Edited by Keyrock

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I only got to use my new Sony X900H for a short bit. It was a happy coincidence that I got it at all. It just happened that I stopped for the night about 8 miles from where I live. No point in sleeping in the truck 8 miles from home. It also happened that early Black Friday sales were on already.

Anyway, I got the TV home, set it up, then made sure everything worked alright. Then, just for ****s and giggles, I hooked my lappy to it via HDMI and fired up Yakuza: Like a Dragon. After changing in-game resolution to 4K the game looked spectacular. It ran like ass, mind you. The GTX 1080 mobile in the lappy is great at 1080p and can handle 1440p in well optimized games, but 4K is just too much. It's a testament to how well optimized Yakuza: Like a Dragon is that it ran anything approaching remotely playable at 4K. 

After that it was sleepy time then back on the road next morning.

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Hi guys, I'm starting to build a new computer for myself since my old one is really old, and my eyes are old too. I found out about this when I realized that every time I played game at 30 FPS, it would strain my eyes. I don't really understand why that would be a thing, but here we are. Also since I have only bought one AMD CPU and graphics card ever, I kinda want to build an AMD machine this time. Lastly, I'm not made of money so I will be buying the parts for new PC from different sales(if possible) starting this friday till post xmas sales at january. Oh, and I have already bought a 1080p display this summer since my old 900p display started to flicker.

TL:DR: I'm building AMD PC capable of gaming 1080p at 60 FPS.

I have few questions:

1. Ryzen 3600XT vs 5600X. For some strange reason I have found three different places that sell 3600XT cheaper than 3600X. This means the price difference between 3600XT and 5600X is almost 90€. Do you think 5600X would be worth it for future proofing and for just being a better CPU?

2. About hard drives. I thought I would get M.2 SSD for OS and programs, a SATA SSD for new games, and a good old HDD with RPMs for old games, storage and back-up. This is because I have never had an SSD so I don't really trust them. I wanted share the amount "traffic" the SSDs would get so they would last longer, but it would be cheaper to get just bigger M.2 SSD and no SATA SSD. What do you think?

3. Upgrading Win 7 to Win 10. I'm still rocking Win 7. When there was the free upgrade period I downloaded a file from that link, but I didn't run it. I wanted to save it for this moment. Getting a free Win 10 for a new computer. The question is: Would this actually work? Does the file still work? MS has closed the free upgrade period and the link is nowhere to be found, but I do have the file.

Suggestions are welcome.

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@kirottu

1) The XT CPUs were notoriously bad value when they launched, so I'm not sure what's happening here. Can you link us the store or give us the actual prices so we can tell whether it's the XT being sold off cheap, or the 3600X being overpriced at those places, or whatever else is going on. With "normal" pricing your choice would typically be between the 3600 non-X versus the 5600X. The 3700X might be a shout if it's a good price given that it has two extra cores compared to the 600 series. Or go the other way and get the 3300X, which is common in some countries but rarer than gold in others - probably the pick for a budget system and frees up funds to upgrade graphics.

2) With typical usage patterns in a home setting, any decent SSD would last decades. That said, bigger isn't always cheaper as 1TB is probably the sweet spot in terms of pricing these days.

3) You can still upgrade to Win10 for free even now, no need to keep stuff from back when the offer was initially advertised. On a completely new PC, it's not guaranteed that inputting your old Win7 key would automatically work, but if automatic activation fails, you can usually get it done manually by calling MS's activation number - mostly automated these days.

3b) Even failing all that, Windows 10 is actually still "free-to-use" in that there's no time limit for using an unactivated copy. You will be locked out of some trivial personalisation features, but basically all that means is that you can't change the wallpaper. ;)

Edited by Humanoid

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@Humanoid

1) I could have sworn it was 230€ for 3600XT earlier this week, but now when I checked it was 245€. I wonder if it's going to be "on sale" tomorrow for 230€. I hadn't even considered 3700X. Somehow I was set on "mid range means 6 cores". It does feel like I can't really trust the prizes they have today so what would you consider good value for 3600X or XT, and 3700X?

5600X is 320€ and that is highest I'm willing to go for a CPU currently.

2) My current computer is almost decade old. So great news for me about SSDs lasting for decades. Maybe it's because I currently have only 500GB hard drive, it feels like I'm deleting and installing stuff quite a lot.

3) Excellent news about Win 10.

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13 minutes ago, kirottu said:

I could have sworn it was 230€ for 3600XT earlier this week, but now when I checked it was 245€. I wonder if it's going to be "on sale" tomorrow for 230€. I hadn't even considered 3700X. Somehow I was set on "mid range means 6 cores". It does feel like I can't really trust the prizes they have today so what would you consider good value for 3600X or XT, and 3700X?

5600X is 320€ and that is highest I'm willing to go for a CPU currently.

Without knowing the specific prices, the general consensus is that the 3300X, 3600 non-X and 5600X are the sweet spots. The 3600X and XT don't really give you much more than the regular 3600 does; and the 3700X is often more than the 5600X and therefore is only relevant if you already know you need the extra cores - games will heavily favour the 5600X.

Which one is "best" depends on specific pricing as well as your overall budget - i.e. how much would you be sacrificing in other areas if you did go for a more expensive CPU. You can afford the 5600X, but does it mean not being able to fit in (for example) a 3060Ti video card (which is supposedly releasing next week) for example?

So while personally I am building a new PC with a 5600X, I would only do so if I could also afford a 3060Ti minimum (supposedly the price will be $400USD). If not, then I would get the regular 3600 instead and use the savings to get a better video card. (AMD's response to the 3060Ti will presumably be the RX 6700 series, but that's probably January at the earliest)

Edited by Humanoid

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Yeah, for 1080p 60Hz pretty much any current AMD processor will be more than enough so it's balancing budget and longevity. The only other factor would be if there's an upgrade path from 1080p to consider at all. Higher frequency needs a better CPU, but if you go for higher resolution CPU is a lot less relevant.

I wouldn't bother with a SATA SSD. 1TB NVMe and a standard old platter HD for bulk storage covers most bases fine. Note that M2 is a form factor rather than a type of SSD, the NVMe versions are a lot faster than SATA m2 and they currently cost almost the same (here, at least, though it seems currently that Europe is really being stiffed on pricing). Most motherboards have 2 m2 slots too now if you need to add more fast storage later.

Technically the free upgrade for Win10 is only available for non upgrade version and non OEM win7.

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@Humanoid

Some sites have pre-sales for limited amount of items, before tomorrow's big sale. One of them has 3700X for 280€ and free shipping. But then again I do agree with you that 6 cores seems to be the sweet spot for gaming. But I currently have i5-2400 and I do like the thought of doubling the cores. Double the cores double the speed, right? Decisions decisions... 

Cheapest 3600 non-X I could find is 210€.

The plan is to have the new computer to last me about 8 years, with a GPU upgrade in the middle. GPU is probably going to be the last part I buy, and I haven't decided on anything else than it to be AMD.

@Zoraptor

My display is 22 inches and for that 1080p is sharp enough. I'm not planning on upgrading my display, because I would have to buy a new computer desk too. My computer desk is so old I'm pretty sure they hadn't even heard of flat screens or displays wider than 20 inches when they made it. 

I was wondering what NVMe meant. Those sneaky bastards.

My Win 7 is the volume type. I got it free from school back in the day.

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Double the cores is double the speed ...for very specific tasks that can both use that amount of cores, and is able to load them fairly evenly. Unfortunately, none of those tasks are gaming. It's a good price though and unlike the 3600X/XT, there at least is a reason for it to exist. For gaming though, reaching all the way to the 5600X will likely be better value per frame.

Put it this way: if you're already paying 70€ more for 5-10% extra performance (going to be a lot closer to 5% for most games), paying a further 40€ for 20+% more performance should be a straightforward decision. That said, the decision between the 3600 and the 5600X might come down to whether you plan to buy a new desk within the next few years. 😛

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How soon do you need this PC? I ask because you can actually buy a 3700X right now, a 5600X not so much.

For gaming, the 5600X will be the better chip 9 out of 10 times. However, as someone who is trying to buy a Ryzen 5000 processor himself, I know how hard these chips are to get. Hopefully it's easier in your region.

Edited by Keyrock

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I had a poke around - first at whether the Finns had a version of PCPartPicker. They do ...but it only pulls from one retailer, so absolutely useless. But I did come across a price comparison site and it seems pretty useful.

https://hinta.fi/2064274/amd-ryzen-5-5600x

 

Here in Australia I can fairly trivially pick up a 5600X or 5800X in stock right now, no issue at all. So hopefully those green buttons are a good sign for Europe too.

EDIT: Hahaah, figures that between the time I used the site and now, they went down for maintenance. :ninja:

Edited by Humanoid

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https://hintaopas.fi/

This is the website that actually works.

Ryzen 5 5600x:

https://hintaopas.fi/product.php?p=5588360

"My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian tourist
I am Dan Quayle of the Romans.
I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.
Heja Sverige!!
Everyone should cuffawkle more.
The wrench is your friend. :bat:

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7 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

I had a poke around - first at whether the Finns had a version of PCPartPicker. They do ...but it only pulls from one retailer, so absolutely useless. But I did come across a price comparison site and it seems pretty useful.

https://hinta.fi/2064274/amd-ryzen-5-5600x

 

Here in Australia I can fairly trivially pick up a 5600X or 5800X in stock right now, no issue at all. So hopefully those green buttons are a good sign for Europe too.

EDIT: Hahaah, figures that between the time I used the site and now, they went down for maintenance. :ninja:

Those are what we have here too, but no 5900x and 5950x

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I watched good amount of benchmarks of 3600 vs 3700X and I have to say I was kinda disappointed how little difference there was between the two. 8 core gaming seems to be further than 8 years away. 5600X seems like it would be overkill for my 1080p at 60 fps requirement. I think Ryzen 5 3600 it is for me.

I'm bit worried about future proofing, but here I am at 2020 and still using i5-2400. It should be fine. 

Edited by kirottu

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3 minutes ago, kirottu said:

I watched good amount of benchmarks of 3600 vs 3700X and I have to say I was kinda disappointed how little difference there was between the two. 8 core gaming seems to be further than 8 years away. 5600X seems like it would be overkill for my 1080p at 60 fps requirement. I think Ryzen 5 3600 it is for me.

I'm bit worried about future proofing, but here I am at 2020 and still using i5-2400. It should be fine. 

A 3600 should be more than fine for a good long while. In any case you will really feel the upgrade. I upgraded to one from an ivy bridge in the summer, and it was quite the difference in gaming.

What's your GPU?

"My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian tourist
I am Dan Quayle of the Romans.
I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.
Heja Sverige!!
Everyone should cuffawkle more.
The wrench is your friend. :bat:

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22 minutes ago, Pidesco said:

A 3600 should be more than fine for a good long while. In any case you will really feel the upgrade. I upgraded to one from an ivy bridge in the summer, and it was quite the difference in gaming.

What's your GPU?

Radeon RX 560 with 2 GB of memory.

No parts shaming pls.

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That card will definitely be a bottleneck, perhaps even at 1080p.

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"My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian tourist
I am Dan Quayle of the Romans.
I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.
Heja Sverige!!
Everyone should cuffawkle more.
The wrench is your friend. :bat:

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IceGiant Prosiphon Elite has arrived!  It's quite slimmer than the prototype version seen on the videos but it sports 4 fans, 2 intake, 2 exhaust.  Will report performance and compare it with my current beefy air cooler.

“If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.” 

-Ulysses S. Grant

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