Please don't put a level cap

[Dark Lord of the Bith]

Who called who names?

Nobody...

 

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

 

 

Two sheckles for whoever can name that movie.

 

Not Star Wars, BTW.

[Judge Hades]

I want to say Cool Hand Luke but it was also used in a Guns and Roses song "Civil War."

[Shdy314]

I want to say Cool Hand Luke but it was also used in a Guns and Roses song "Civil War."

Pretty sure youre right. Cool Hand Luke. I also remember it being used in Smokey and the Bandit though. Good movie lines tend to get repeated.

[Quiquag]

Perhaps there can be a level cap, but it should be done in such a way that there appears to be no level cap. Once you reach level 30 or 35 it will be so difficult to level up that it will take you hours.

[Zane0]

Improper RPG design is when you have players going through the game with the primary drive being to level. Leveling is to show that your character gets more skilled as he works through important events, and it should not be the focus of the game.

 

The ideal RPG has an interested enough plot to get players to proceed through the game for the plot only, and to see leveling as a nice bonus along the way. Leveling should not be the focus of the game; we have enough products which do exactly that already, and guess what? It's boring after a while.

 

If the game is designed well enough, level caps will be irrelevant- Everyone will just want to proceed through the story, and won't be driven to buff up their characters to the point where every encounter is too easy. Even if there is no level cap, this problem can be easily remedied with code that increases the strength of enemies relative to your level.

 

Level caps aren't a big deal if you design the game properly.

[kefka]

Cillian Murphy?

Christopher Eccleston!

[kefka]

If the game is designed well enough, level caps will be irrelevant- Everyone will just want to proceed through the story, and won't be driven to buff up their characters to the point where every encounter is too easy.  Even if there is no level cap, this problem can be easily remedied with code that increases the strength of enemies relative to your level.

 

Level caps aren't a big deal if you design the game properly.

Personally, I think the 'phat loot' you collect is a more serious problem. At least levels give you natural abilities - skills/powers/feats, etc - but when you add the ridiculous equipment you find that tilts the balance. Just how powerful would your character be without those cloaks, gloves and belts that give you god-like powers? A Jedi without all that crap would at least have some limitations.

[Opus131]

Is it nice being able to do everything? Sure. But is it good RP? No. It is also not realistic.

Yeah, it really sucks that the level of realism in our FANTASY ROLE PLAYING GAMES is so low.

Every heard of willing suspension of disbelief ?!?

 

Just because a game it's a fantasy doesn't mean everything goes you goof.

 

In a setting, ANY setting, everything must have a reasonable exscuse to happen.

 

If Star Wars tell us that the some people can use a mystical energy called the force to push things around and choke random people to death fine, but when Padme lands 40 feets over a carapace creature without shattering her hips you are freaking asking for it.

 

You see, even in a fantasy, the rules of reality must apply, because a fantasy IS reality, with a few concessions which ultimetly need to be well thought out and in harmony with the rest of the setting in order to work properly.

 

I have no problems with a talking gorilla, but when Mark Wahlberg gets punched by one and sent 30 feets up the air and gets up without much of a bruise in his face you are braking my suspention of disbelief, becuase i was never told that humans of the future had adamantum esoskeletons beneath their skins.

[Opus131]

Perhaps there can be a level cap, but it should be done in such a way that there appears to be no level cap. Once you reach level 30 or 35 it will be so difficult to level up that it will take you hours.

Frankly, i don't think they need a cap, all they have to do is balance the game to end within level 15, which is where KOTOR should have ended in the first place.

 

Level 30 or 35 ?!? I don't get it, what can you fight at level 35 that's even remotely challenging, the Death Star ?!?

[Enoch]

Perhaps there can be a level cap, but it should be done in such a way that there appears to be no level cap. Once you reach level 30 or 35 it will be so difficult to level up that it will take you hours.

Frankly, i don't think they need a cap, all they have to do is balance the game to end within level 15, which is where KOTOR should have ended in the first place.

 

Level 30 or 35 ?!? I don't get it, what can you fight at level 35 that's even remotely challenging, the Death Star ?!?

A noble goal. I'm with you all the way.

 

 

But you do realize that we're tilting at windmills here, right? As soon they announced that the idiotic prestige classes would be included, it was pretty clear that any semblance of combat balance would be impossible.

[kefka]

At lvl 30 or 35 you will have to fight multiple enemies because no single enemy is going to present a challenge, other than the Sith Lords. And even they would call for back-up.

 

I like the idea of no cap but with a finite amount of experience. So, you could squeeze out 25-30 levels if you did every single quest, but most people would end the game at 20. You should only have so much experience. The days of killing respawning enemies are long gone.

[Kdy-worker 1138]

Please do add a level cap and make it around level 8 or 10

[EnderAndrew]

The basis of this arugment also stems from the fact that the author is claiming that a level cap inhibits RP.

 

In what way? If you define XP farming as RPing, then yes.

 

I don't consider XP farming a form of RP. RP is character interaction, and immersion. That is accomplished through quests, story and setting. That is not determined by numbers.

 

I would contend (though some would disagree) that you could have an RPG with no numbers or stats. It would be unpopular with many people, but so long as the game was based upon taking the mantle of another character, and role-playing them, it is an RPG.

 

There is a modern connotation with RPG = leveling up, but many RPGs don't even feature levels, merely another form of character progression. And still, the assumption that character progression is inherent to an RPG I would argue. It adds a level of fun and interest to a CRPG, but it is not essential to be defined as an RPG.

[Shdy314]

Improper RPG design is when you have players going through the game with the primary drive being to level. Leveling is to show that your character gets more skilled as he works through important events, and it should not be the focus of the game.

The best and probably only way to do this is to give Xp only for completing quests/advancing the storyline.

[Loonie]

im thinking some people should go and play diablo 2 if you want exteme leveling.

 

The only rpg i have ever played that didnt have a level cap (or at least i never reached it) and worked was ps:t but even it had caps for the amount of points you could put into the stats.

 

Its like opus said, the reason there are caps is because if there wasnt the game would be too easy, you'd be able to take out armies with one spell etc and although some people might like that feeling of power, it gets boring pretty damn quick.

[Child of Flame]

The level cap in the first game took away something from the game. Most of the fun of an RPG is leveling up your character and making your character grow. When you put a level on how much your character can grow it subtracts from the fun of building a character. Level caps end the customization of a character, which takes away from the fun of the player.

[Antagonist]

I don't see any problem here. Add an option to the gameplay settings which allows you to remove the level cap with a strong warning that it might affect the game balance. So the power gamers can have their way and the rest just don't care.

[Opus131]

I don't see any problem here. Add an option to the gameplay settings which allows you to remove the level cap with a strong warning that it might affect the game balance. So the power gamers can have their way and the rest just don't care.

No can do, sorry...

[Quiquag]

Please do add a level cap and make it around level 8 or 10

Are you serious?! Do you know how hard it was to kill Malak at level 20? If you make the level cap at 8 or 10 the game will just become frustrating. <_<

[kefka]

Please do add a level cap and make it around level 8 or 10

Are you serious?! Do you know how hard it was to kill Malak at level 20? If you make the level cap at 8 or 10 the game will just become frustrating. <_<

Level 8 is no different to 20 if the enemies you face are balanced. Malak was designed for a lvl 20 character, so an RPG that has a lvl 8 cap would have enemies designed for a lvl 8 character. It's all about balance.

[Judge Hades]

Please do add a level cap and make it around level 8 or 10

Are you serious?! Do you know how hard it was to kill Malak at level 20? If you make the level cap at 8 or 10 the game will just become frustrating. <_<

Um... It wasn't all that hard at all.

[Drakron]

Malak was BioWare End Boss ...

 

That means it had far higher stats that normal (if not in error only Dex was not 20+) and a "dispell" lightsaber.

 

If level progression was aimed at a lower ending level Malak would have lower levels and lower stats (but in the BioWare End Boss tradiction he would still cheat, like Sarevok in BG1) but unfortunatly the Dioblows mentality ended the idea of lower level RPGs were chances of aim of end the game with a character that have not reached double digits in levels are slim to none.

[Quiquag]

Please do add a level cap and make it around level 8 or 10

Are you serious?! Do you know how hard it was to kill Malak at level 20? If you make the level cap at 8 or 10 the game will just become frustrating. <_<

Um... It wasn't all that hard at all.

It's not that it was hard, but it was obvious his character was beyond level 20....also he was able to restore all of his energy. Malak was cheesey, thats why he was so hard to fight.

[Judge Hades]

Bioware lost the ability to make good challenging CRPGs with ToB. It is sad that Obsidian is following their foot steps with KotOR2.

[kefka]

It's not that it was hard, but it was obvious his character was beyond level 20....also he was able to restore all of his energy. Malak was cheesey, thats why he was so hard to fight.

That's what bugs me about Malak, and the 'cutscenes' in Kotor. They take control away from the player. It was even worse here. Every time he retreats to replenish his energy what's to stop you from attacking him? Battles don't end just because one guy has been weakened. The entire fight with Malak is like a scripted cutscene. You have no control even when you're winning. I hope there's no repeat of that in Kotor2.