Dark Lord of the Bith

Good call, KotorKyle. (w00t) I didn't LITERALLY mean, go to the bathroom. I meant find some excuse to not be there in the room with Kavar who obviously knows who Kreia is...

True, but remember, it seems that Kreia has the ability to make herself invisible to those (at her own will) who are Force Sensitive. If you play the game as a female, you get to see several scenes where Kreia messes around with Disciple's head this way. Also, regardless of which gender you picked, she cloaked her presence from Atris in the beginning, and to a lesser extent (but not enough), Darth Sion. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Excellent points. My complaint isn't that what went on was wrong, but shouldn't it have been explained how or why she managed this? The Atris thing was explained in a cutscene, but wouldn't it have been a little better if Kreia... suddenly had to use the little Jedis' room when you meet Kavar? Just a thought.

Not to mention that Kavar and Vrook don't even notice that Kreia is standing right next to you on Onderon and Dantooine (pt 1)... Suddenly it's - "Oh yeah, I THOUGHT she looked familiar..."

Same here. I've never been able to convince them of that, either... Even with persuade skill maxed and a good charisma. Anymore, I just pick a fight immediately and solve all their problems. If anybody has had more success with this, let us know!

Um.........when and where exactly did you find that out?? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ? The first time that I fought him... It reminded me of fighting Malak on the Leviathan. That whole "He's just too strong!" bit didn't jibe with the single use of Master Speed and Master Flurry that brought him down to half HPs... "Whaddya mean he's too strong?! Lemme fight him, Carth!" It can't surprise anyone here that Nihilious is waaay too easy, can it?!

The time that KOTORII got my blood pumping the most was when I thought Atris killed Brianna on my first playthough. Goody-goody light sider gave up his mastery to whack Atris, then felt dumb when Brianna was okay... Nihilious was great until I found out he had a glass jaw. Most terrible was Kreia offing the Jedi Masters. Had I been concious I would have said "Why the #^@% didn't you do that to Saquesh or that Drexl or those two #^@(!%& criminals when they ran right by us in the Czerka office?!!"

Grey Delisle (Handmaiden) is a fantastic VO actress, as well as a musician. Her credits (check IMDB) are almost as long as our beloved Jennifer Hale. She was also a couple of different characters in the Clone Wars cartoon, Asajj Ventress and Bariss Offee. If you look in the credits, KOTORII and Clone Wars pt. I share many actors. Hats off to Grey Delisle! ...and Jennifer Hale, of course. Kristoffer Tabori should do my answering machine message. I'd pay for that!

I've annoyed all of my neighbors by going into their homes and trying to break down their items into components. Every time they catch me, I see a little box appear over their heads that says "Influence lost: Mrs. Boudreaux" I watch movies now and say "Bing! LS points gained" or "Bing! DS points gained" at all the right moments. I need to work on my Force Persuade, too... Otherwise, not a lot of obessions, no.

That's a good thought, but when the Exile converses with Atton after Dantooine the Exile says that he has to go to Telos to get Kreia before Atris executes her and the Exile along with. If the bond had been broken without the Exile's knowledge, you may be right. If there was still a bond at that point then it must have been something other than Kreia's fall. I still don't have a theory, but I wanted to feel around and see if anybody had some better ideas. Keep them coming!

That was very astute. It makes sense. I hate to drag down the discussion here, but something has been bugging me. I haven't found any threads about this, but could someone please throw a brick of wisdom at my cranium here? Since Kreia and the Exile have a force chain and her death would mean his, how is it that the Exile manages to kill her without dying himself? It wasn't explained by Kreia at the end, and I haven't seen this explanation on the boards anywhere. Did the Exile cut himself off again to avoid death? Did he just die in the LS ending? ?

My ideas, for what they're worth... (no more than any of the previous) Mechanics -- like influence, workbench, lighsaber/upgrade changes, etc... How about branching force powers? Maybe instead of taking Force Wave (affecting many foes for medium damage/stun) I can take another branch with another power that does lots of damage to one foe or another that stuns them for many rounds, etc... Another example, energy resistance: I can have my PC take the version that only buffs himself/herself stronger and let one of my support Jedi take the version that buffs everybody. I leave it to the really creative ones to figure the details here. Engine -- Improved pathfinding AI, of course. Improved behaviors for my party. What happened to the Defensive behavior I read about in the manual? I'm also tired of my support Jedi using up all of their force points AFTER I've already slaughtered the lone Cannock in my path and not stopping until they've used every buffing power or ran out of force points. How about throwing a few into attacking while we're at it? Story -- The Jedi are getting decimated in every story. I would like to be able to help rebuild the Jedi order, or build a new Sith empire for DS. Since there's so few actual Jedi/Sith left, where do we keep getting them? This time, how about a colony of Force sensitives? The rejects that the council tested and found to have too many personality quirks or being to passionate to be trained as a Jedi. Perhaps your character was raised in such a setting and managed to learn how to commune with a deceased Jedi. Over the years he/she trains you for reasons that may end up being malevolent or honorable based on the LS/DS path you choose. Another 'what is this Jedi trying to get me to do and why?' storyline, I know. On your 'graduation day' when the game begins, our community of force sensitives is deemed to good to ignore for some faction of the Sith to pass up. They kidnap or kill the majority of them, while the PC is off... building a lightsaber, maybe? The matron/patron dead Jedi purposely kept you away to avoid their fate and purposely didn't warn you so that you wouldn't try to interfere and would end up with an impetus to become a powerful Jedi and (maybe) wipe out the hordes of Sith and start to rebuild the Jedi order. Maybe you just want to kick some butt and then rule the Sith yourself. Anyway, this leaves many different potential Jedi to free/enslave yourself and train. To tie this back to KotorII... Maybe Bao-Dur falls to the Darkside of the force. *ducks* He couldn't overcome the emotion of Malachor V and while the Exile is off helping Revan, BD is brooding. Instead of having a COMPLETELY EVIL VILLIAN that we HAVE TO KILL, we have a tragic character that instead of wiping out, we may (if we choose) try to redeem him. This idea was touched on with Atris, and in the Korriban tombs, but nothing really came of either of those choices besides a few LS points. Maybe we encounter Mira and she does just what Kreia says and dies protecting others on some world or another (where you happen to be fighting along side her) and we get our needed tear-jerker scene. I love the Handmaiden, I think that she is a dynamite character that wasn't given enough of a chance to develop. Most are that way, I know... If there's a chance to work her back in to the mix, I'd love that. Or maybe Bastilla?! Miscellaneous -- T3 rocked in KOTORII, but lets put the old horse out to pasture. *ducks again* Since we're using ideas for the orginal trilogy, how about a droid character similar to the Imperial probot (sans self-destruction). Yuthura Ban. Maybe too late for her, so something similar... Please? How about a badly-programmed protocol droid that develops psychotic traits and suicidal tendencies for a little comic relief? I realize that human-looking characters are going to be much easier to empathize with, but maybe you can give us the option of recruiting creatures of different races? (idea stolen from previous posters) Have several characters available, but only room for one or make us prioritize the lesser characters and leave a few at home... If we pick up a Bith saxophonist/medical tech/martini mixer (just an example) and he's going to fill some involved role instead of a highly-paid voice actor, you can just use the basic alien speech that is so common (and well done, I think) in KOTORII. So much to say... I'll leave this to the rest of the community to comment/critique/insult. Whatever, just please don't try to get it to the stores this X-mas... Or next. I'll wait.

Yes, I was very frustrated with that, too. After all I did for them, they're going to strip me of the force?! Then when Kreia hands them their keesters on a plate, I realized that ALL of the Jedi were now going to come from me (since Atris has fallen)... Pretty weighty when you stop to consider... One of my Padawans' Padawans' Padawans (etc...) will train Yoda... Hrm. I'm a goody little two-shoes lightsider if you haven't guessed... Lightside... Darkside... I'm the guy with the lightsaber...

I liked the planets in KOTORII. Even the ones that were co-opted from KOTORI seemed to be well put together. None can match the spectacle of the unknown world, but in terms of fun, I like them most of them as much as KOTOR. I didn't like Manaan or Malachor, both very tedious IMO. The big difference between the two for me was the satisfaction of watching the boss enemies take a dirt nap. Calo Nord, Malak's whacky lackey, that butt-faced Sandpeople leader, Bendak Starkiller, the Rancor, Chundaar, and Malak himself all had a satisfying crunch to their demise. In KOTORII we get Kreia (why didn't the Exile's force bond wipe him out simultaneously, BTW?), Nihilius, who didn't live up to the hype, and Atris. The first time I fought her, I had to hand in my jedi robes and LS mastery and cut her into kibble when I thought she offed my beautiful baby Brianna. Then I found out that BBB was fine... ooops, my bad. Sion was fun the second time, like spicy Thai leftovers. Otherwise, we're left with Azkul, the various and sundry bounty hunters, General Vaklu, Slusk, and many others who we just don't get the same pleasure from stomping on.

Brianna. I love the little short hair, pockets full of kick-some-ass, and those blue-grey eyes.... Mira is a very close second. Visas is definitely a great party member, but she's just not up to snuff when compared to those two... I'm not into the bee-stung lips and lack of a second character class... I felt about her like I felt about big Z in KOTOR. Forced to have along at some points and nice for variety, but not in my power party by any means.

Isn't it a little sad that we went from Terentateks and Rancors to Storm Beasts and Zakkeg? The tank droid was a great one, but I do miss some of the really tough fights from KOTOR where a simple Mandalorian gladiator was the bane of my non-jedi arse and beating him as a lvl 3 scout made me insanely happy. There were several moments of joy for me in KOTORII, but no great combats that I remember. The Darths were all easy, especially the one who eats entire planets for breakfast. Fighting the three lightsabers just reminded me of Phantasy Star Two, without the fear, but with a much better soundtrack! I wish Atris would have been harder. Spoilers, if you hadn't guessed. Don't read the first part of this post... For KOTOR III, how about a full-grown Drexl or a Krayt Dragon?! Or maybe something like the lava monster or the ice spiders from the books that were supposed to represent episodes 7,8,9? Maybe the average computer will be fast enough by the time of release that the engine will support battles of more than two dozen foes and I can finally exorcise the demons of my past and SLAUGHTER AN ENTIRE TRIBE OF THOSE EVIL, WORLD-CRUSHING EWOKS!!! They single handedly ruined the greatest movie trilogy of all time. I blame them for the production problems of KOTORII. If Lucasfilm, ltd. hadn't made such an enormous profit from the exploitation of Ewok populatrity, they might not have tried to find the next 'Ewok' for their movies and there would have been no Jar-Jar Binks. If they hadn't become so focused on profits, maybe they would have eased off Obsidian and given them enough time to make the game that we all wanted instead of the one that would be in everybody's stocking for Xmas. Not that I won't pre-order KOTORIII (I'm like someone stuck in an abusive relationship), but please let us have the full experience. Back to topic so the mods don't prune me... Favorite creature in KOTOR/KOTORII has got to be... Rancors. They were like my prom dates. They weren't cute and they didn't go down easy. After growing up with RotJedi, the Rancor was a modern day Goliath to Luke's David. Sveeeeet...

KOTOR was a real time machine for me. I'd start playing and suddenly it would be monday morning and time to go to work. I'm also a real powergamer and RPGs scratch some weird psychological itch I have. KOTORII does that just as well or maybe (dare I say it aloud?) better than the original. I love the design changes such as influence, components, chemicals, stances, prestige classes, etc. I also think that Obsidian doesn't get nearly enough credit for some of their great planets (Nar Shaddaa!!!) that may not match up to the unknown world in KOTOR for sexiness, but are gobs of fun to play through. Ummm... Spoilers, BTW... Anyway, the two games are different and no two people will agree on what makes one better than the other. All I can say is, buy them both and play them both in as many ways as you can, then learn how to use a hex editor and play them both some more. For your entertainment dollar, both games (even at fifty bucks apiece) are well worth it. Obsidian did a great job on KOTORII considering the tight budget and timeline and the absolutely unreachable expectations of the rabid KOTOR fanbase. KOTOR was amazing and KOTORII is a worthy sequel, which is very hard to do. Hope this helps... I'm drunk...

Nobody... What we have here is a failure to communicate. Two sheckles for whoever can name that movie. Not Star Wars, BTW.

Somehow I doubt you really hated to tell him this....I got to stupid and then I stopped reading this thread since there's little chance this will got anywhere with namecalling so soon....... HA! Name calling so soon! Read any post with 'Carth' in the title. THERE's some Jerry Springer psotings for ya.

There's a reason for that... Anyway, so the mods don't lock us for going off topic: If only shareware was still popular. People could still write stuff for hardcore gamers and we'd be happy. And cancer would be cured. If only it were the case that one person could write a decent game anymore. If there isn't a team of people writing the new whiz-bang graphics engine, nobody's buying. Hrm, C'est La Vie...

Totally agree with you. Id like a game where you don't get much stronger at all. All you increase are your skills. HP and that kind of thing stay basically the same. It's called an FPS. Seriously though, what kinds of games out there are using that system? I'm kind of at a loss to think of one right now. Not that I've looked very hard, mind you. OT- Did you know that John Malkovich as agreed to work on an adaptation of The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy? Can't wait!

Good points. At the least you'd need the manual to point out that going over level 20 is a bad idea or the game becomes broken though. And you'd also have to make sure the gads and gads of casual gamers realized (and they never do) that this wasn't the recommended way to play the game. Or you'd hve all kinds of posts like this game is SO easy. Whine whine whine. And " I am at level 500! How much further do I have to go to reach the cap/end?" Do casual gamers really post that much? J/K. I just think we should be allowed to do what we please and let the confused ones figure it out just like we are. Personally, I wouldn't put a level cap just to avoid confusing some people. I'd also publish the cheat codes on the website and make tools for modding. That's probably why I write banking software instead of games... Hrm. <ponders>

I understand. I'm just sticking up for the guy who started the topic. Sucks to go it alone. Anyway, Some are power gamers and like this stuff. Some artificially restrict their levels to make it more challenging. I'd prefer if the devs allowed us to level up infinitely and allowed us to cheat and allowed us to do whatever we please and then allow us to choose how we want to play. If you want a level cap... just stop levelling up. Then when you've tried that enough times, you can try something else and be happy with the game for a longer period of time. That's just me, though.

Yeah, it really sucks that the level of realism in our FANTASY ROLE PLAYING GAMES is so low.

I'm going to age myself here, but I can remember when games were all-combat because that's all the devs could do. Wizardry, to whit. The gold box games came out and floored me, because we finally had story to go with our combat. And colors. Lots of pretty colors... <sigh> Anyway, today we have processing power on our desktops that would give Nasa pee-pee pants fifteen years ago, but our beloved RPGs are still full of killing and killing and killing. (GIVING TEN PERCENT XP?!! POR:ROMD made me sick!!!) Yes, developers have insane time and money constraints that keep the really good stuff from being released, much like Hollywood. What did that create? Independent movies. Low-budget, not the production value, but they could go out on a limb and do the things we're asking for. Independent games are a thing of the past, however. Remember Shareware? It's a dead art now, since you must have a team of graphic artists, an original score, and a horde of voice actors or you won't sell unit one. If we want a change, (or other options) we must quit pre-ordering the glitzy IP-laden, celebrity filled, coprorate games and paying without regard for what we truly want. Content over graphics. Before the flames begin, I realize I'm posting on the board of the very idea I'm railing against. I'm going to buy this game, no matter the reviews and no matter the XP cap. In the meantime, I'm going to be playing some Wizardry, Phatasy Star II, and Curse of the Azure Bonds and wishing I had enough free time to write a 2-D RPG that addresses this problem. I have to eat, though... Anyway, one of my two cents. Flame away or agree, I won't mind a bit. Just don't mention 'Carth' or all of the Trolls will instanly desend on this topic and call everyone 'Gay' or 'Racist' and the devs will erase it.

Sith were already extinct (merged with fallen jedi) by this time, yes? I voted Twi'lek only on the off chance that there will be a variation that allows you to meet Yuthura Ban again. And equip her with a see-through Jei robe. If there are variations with Carth surviving, etc... why not?