Politics, local-national-global-galactic

[Gromnir]

is an ez way to see just how transparently vacuous the republican process arguments regarding impeachment is: change a mere handful o' facts.

President hillary clinton has a call with zelensky on july 25... asks ukrainians to investigate jeb bush. only person she ever asks the ukrainians to investigate regarding corruption is jeb bush. 

obviously all appointed positions o' Prez hillary is gonna have different names (no mulvaney or bolton or pompeo) but have facts be otherwise identical.

one other fact change is that house of representatives is a republican majority.

so, play out impeachment and trial exact same up until articles reach the senate. republican house attempts to get documents and witnesses but Prez hillary stonewalls total. similar witnesses make similar testimony 'bout near similar events. same. same. same.

so, same articles reach senate regarding Prez hillary. what does mitch mcconnell and the republicans do with same articles from their republican house brothers and sisters? 

well obviously mitch and senate republicans and fox news and medicineD decry the failure of the house of representatives to fully investigate the President. 

*insert eye roll here*

is any doubt witnesses woulda' been called and subpoenas for documents issued if were republican house going after Prez hillary?

...

the process stuff, from the start, were a bs excuse. republicans who wanted (needed) a reason to acquit were fed pap they could easily swallow just as long as they didn't think 'bout the situation reasonable. 

HA! Good Fun!

[Bartimaeus]

It turns out Bernie might have a last second delegate victory in Iowa after all. He's for sure winning the vote, but him and Buttigieg are virtually tied for delegates with 3% left to go.

Good thing Buttigieg got 90% of the media attention already when only 60% was counted and it was too close to call, and it's very odd how the remaining votes from since then have favored Bernie in this very strange Iowa primary.

[ShadySands]

If they're out to avoid any controversy this time around then they've already failed spectacularly on their very first attempt. At work today people were already dipping into conspiracy theories. Made my day funner but I also lost about 2 IQ points that I probably can't afford to lose. Pretty sure I'm in the red now.

Edited February 6, 2020 by ShadySands

[Bartimaeus]

Yeah, I'd prefer to attribute it to stupidity and incompetency rather cheating, but the amount of weird stuff has been insane. Hire a group of nobodies that are connected to Pete Buttigeg to make an app that doesn't work even a little bit, then release a batch of votes that just barely suggests suggest that he'll win, then slowly release the rest of the votes over the next few days showing them to be about evenly distributed until you get to the very last 10% which coincidentally went strongly in favor of Sanders. That's not even mentioning the people keeping track of where the votes are coming in and noticing voting errors that keep going against Sanders. The entire thing about Iowa is the media boost (case in point, Buttigieg has now received a huge polling boost in New Hampshire). What the hell, Iowa?

(e): On an unrelated note, it is startling to realize how different the GOP is today than it was when Obama was elected president - maybe not necessarily in terms of policy, but certainly in loyalties. Both McCain and Romney are despised by what is now the core GOP voter base for "treasonous" acts against their king...they were, probably not coincidentally, the GOP's two previous presidential nominees.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Bartimaeus

[Guard Dog]

Just an observation here. When Mitt Romney was running for President he was called a misogynist, racist, a liar, and an elitist. Well, that last one might be sort of true but none of the rest was. John Bolton has been called a lair, a warmonger, "corrupt to his very soul" according to Rep, Henry Waxman CA. (D) who said so on the House floor. 

Today they are the heroes. The knights in shining armor to the very people who just ten years ago came short of suggesting they be shot in the street. There has always been a certain whoreish quality to marriages of political convenience. But this is a bit much. 

[Guard Dog]

So, Trump walks into the National Prayer Breakfast this morning, a bipartisan event I might add, waking the newspaper with the headline "ACQUITTED" as though he were channeling Harry Truman. You know a better man would act with a little more humility and a little more restraint today. Especially since he literally got away with something. He is not stupid. He knows this. If you thought he was an arrogant ass before there will be no living with him now. He just can't help himself. When the only tool you posses is a hammer you treat the world as if it were a nail. 

[Gfted1]

Thats the state of US politics now, troll or be trolled. The cadaver named Pelosi tearing up his speech on national tv and not using the correct honorific when introducing him are other examples.  Politicians have departed from doing anything constructive and now feel their jobs are t "win" the court of public approval. 

[Bartimaeus]

2 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Just an observation here. When Mitt Romney was running for President he was called a misogynist, racist, a liar, and an elitist. Well, that last one might be sort of true but none of the rest was. John Bolton has been called a lair, a warmonger, "corrupt to his very soul" according to Rep, Henry Waxman CA. (D) who said so on the House floor. 

Today they are the heroes. The knights in shining armor to the very people who just ten years ago came short of suggesting they be shot in the street. There has always been a certain whoreish quality to marriages of political convenience. But this is a bit much. 

I'm not sure how many people were calling or desiring for him to be shot in the street, but the criteria for "decent Republican to a Democrat" has certainly shifted from years ago. Less about "on what issues does this Republican not follow their party line and how does that actually translate to votes" (there was, after all, once upon a time Democrats liked and supported moderates such as Susan Collins to a degree) and more "can this Republican do anything publicly of any substance whatsoever to suggest they aren't in the golden cow cult like the rest"? As far as senators and representatives go, only McCain, Romney, and Amash have earned any distinction there (that I'm aware of anyways).

Edited February 6, 2020 by Bartimaeus

[HoonDing]

wow, Romney has 24 grandchildren.

[Maedhros]

So now it looks like Bernie might be winning after all? According to NYtimes' live estimations anyway. What a mess. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/02/04/us/elections/results-iowa-caucus.html

[Gfted1]

r00fles!

[Amentep]

Looks like she wasn't practicing so much as she tore it so that she could get a clean tear when the cameras were on her.

[MedicineDan]

Whatever the vote is, Bernie lost Iowa.  Seriously, even if Bernie wins the votes, he lost Iowa, which might end up fueling his base.  They see he got screwed and they're going to make sure other people see it also.  So, I guess I'm wrong.  Maybe, at this point, Bernie wins Iowa no matter the final vote.  The Democratic party is simply shooting itself in the foot.  I think it was Carville who came out publicly saying he didn't want the Democrats to become the Labour Party of the United States.

I'm genuinely surprised that so many Democrats think the impeachment was dandy.  ImPEACHY Keen, to make a pun.  It was a loser of an idea in the first place, but the House made a royal hash of it.  I've always played it above board in my assessments.  It's not about rooting for one side or the other.  If the Republicans had done something so monumentally stupid, I would have said the same thing.  The thing is, while it was a loser, the Dems certainly could have played it better.  The cynical view is that the Democrats were trying to orchestrate something to hurt Republican senators or some such.  The reality is that a large credulous segment of the Democrat base honestly thought they had a chance at removing the president.  In either case, they failed.

Look, the election is a ways out, and you can kill the messenger if you want, but the Democrats need to get some discipline and start doing something other than trying to smear mud on Trump.  How the hell would you be able to tell if any of it stuck anyway?

Finally, I pride myself on staying cool headed and I should not have made intemperate statements about Romney.  He might or might not survive his vote, but, in a lot of ways, I feel sorry for the guy.  He has a lot of personal animosity for Trump, and Trump has certainly earned it, but I take Romney at his word that his faith guided his decision.  Hopefully, cooler tempers prevail today and we Republicans don't bring out the pitchforks and fiery brands.  Heat of the moment decisions are almost always terrible.

[Gfted1]

That would have been even funnier!

I was going to post a link too but I didnt have the energy for the predictable qq about the "source": https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7970209/It-felt-like-Mike-Pence-accuses-Nancy-Pelosi-planning-rip-speech.html

[MedicineDan]

bwahahahaha

[Gromnir]

43 minutes ago, MedicineDan said:

 

I'm genuinely surprised that so many Democrats think the impeachment was dandy. 

am not a democrat, so this may have less impact

we had no illusions 'bout impeachment trial. we knew it were doomed from the start. we nevertheless supported impeachment 'cause this President made it impossible for men o' conscience to continue to ignore his continuing and flagrant disregard of the Constitution.

if it makes @MedicineDan feel better, we have some sympathy for your plight. again, Gromnir is largely conservative, so as often as not we were one o' a small number o' opposing view obsidian board posters on any number o' issues in recent years. obama foreign policy, bush "lies" 'bout wmds, israel, kaepernick sitting out the anthem and a whole laundry list o' issues has had us not perfect aligning with the republican narrative, but clear opposed to most democrats. am recognizing how you have painted a target on self by being that guy and we do sympathize. 

however, being conservative does not require a defense o' trump.

 

trump is petty, mendacious and willing to use any underhanded trick he thinks he can get away with to promote himself. whatever transactional reasoning you come up with to legitimize the continued defense and even support o' trump must, in our mind, give way to the overriding concerns o' character and Constitutional integrity which clear show trump's lack o' fitness to hold any public trust much less to occupy the office of the President of the United States of America.

HA! Good Fun!

ps is amusing all the republicans qq over pelosi when trump has daily been rejecting norms and values since before he became President. those same trump supporters who often cheer the President for being so real when he acts like a spoiled child is now pointing fingers at pelosi? the hypocrisy is thick and would be laughable if not for fact it is just another brick in the intangible but nevertheless effective wall between them and us... which, btw, makes it a far more effective wall than the silliness at the southern border, spending for which coulda' gone to actual beneficial infrastructure projects.

 

[Gfted1]

Whataboutiiiiiiiissssssssmmmmm ftw! Delicious.

[Gromnir]

13 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Whataboutiiiiiiiissssssssmmmmm ftw!

am not suggesting pelosi actions were ok or innocuous 'cause o' trump fails. so missing the point. is an acknowledgment o' hypocrisy on an issue which does nobody any good 'cause it further divides. to observe sudden derision o' what were a positive moments before pelosi did is hardly what is whataboutism.

so missing the point... as usual.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited February 6, 2020 by Gromnir
grammar fail

[Raithe]

[ComradeYellow]

12 hours ago, ShadySands said:

If they're out to avoid any controversy this time around then they've already failed spectacularly on their very first attempt. At work today people were already dipping into conspiracy theories. Made my day funner but I also lost about 2 IQ points that I probably can't afford to lose. Pretty sure I'm in the red now.

I think it's safe to say that any so called "conspiracy theory" these days probably has a bit of truth to it, regardless of how dumb it sounds.  I know better than to let my guard down.  Nothing shocks me anymore.

[Gromnir]

5 minutes ago, ComradeMaster said:

I think it's safe to say that any so called "conspiracy theory" these days probably has a bit of truth to it, regardless of how dumb it sounds.  

...

uh.

...

HA! Good Fun!

[ComradeYellow]

I'd almost prefer an incomprehensible wall of text...

[Guard Dog]

 

[Gromnir]

2 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

image

am knowing the simpsons were being funny, but is not untrue... though hardly complete true. the US federal system is the founder's solution to the plagues spawned by athenian democracy. is no need for three branches o' government in a true democracy. is no need for purposeful design which favors bipartisan in a true democracy. is no need for a bill of rights, which is specifically a limit on potential tyranny o' the majority in a true democracy.

tribalism is bad as our hillary and pelosi examples stress. in 2020 we are so polarized that groups may and do look at same actions done by trump or clinton or pelosi, and depending on no real change save party affiliation, bad actions become laudable and vice-versa? is one o' the nightmares o' the founders.

founders determined that one o' the bestest ways to deal with tribalism were to craft intentional gridlock into the system, 'cause democracy, true democracy, doesn't work.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Guard Dog]

18 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

am knowing the simpsons were being funny, but is not untrue... though hardly complete true. the US federal system is the founder's solution to the plagues spawned by athenian democracy. is no need for three branches o' government in a true democracy. is no need for purposeful design which favors bipartisan in a true democracy. is no need for a bill of rights, which is specifically a limit on potential tyranny o' the majority in a true democracy.

tribalism is bad as our hillary and pelosi examples stress. in 2020 we are so polarized that groups may and do look at same actions done by trump or clinton or pelosi, and depending on no real change save party affiliation, bad actions become laudable and vice-versa? is one o' the nightmares o' the founders.

founders determined that one o' the bestest ways to deal with tribalism were to craft intentional gridlock into the system, 'cause democracy, true democracy, doesn't work.

HA! Good Fun!

 

Agreed. I would not trade our system for any other.