Obsidian, i love your game but ... I'm not stupid !

[thearmourofGod]

that was ez

[Merzhinhudour]

On 11/1/2019 at 12:01 AM, imitenotbecrazy said:

Completely disagree and I've probably got one of the higher amount of hours into the game on this forum (working from home and not being busy helps). I've been messing around with multiple playthroughs and they're all feeling the same. Others have echoed that same complaint. If you need a comparison, why not their own game, New Vegas? You could assign points to individual skills based on how you wanted your character to progress. Right now, I'm forced to level skills I don't want up to 50 due to this stupid skill group bull****. It's a terribly basic system and I'm shocked people think that's a good RPG mechanic. 

Whether you like it or not, the way your skills and character evolves in-game is actually the most accurate and realistic I've ever seen to date.

Because you can't be the best in everything, you've got to specialize. Like in real life. Being able to talk your way out of some situation requires very special skills, and so does being able to hack high security computers, or steal from people without them noticing.

You can take any example, weapons, science, it works the same in real life. Someone who's good with guns will also know some things about how to use rifles or other weapons, because they have common mechanics and requirements.

Dialogue skills also make sense. If you're very good to talk with people and convince them, you could lie, or say the truth, or even threaten them, it would work, because they really believe in your words.

I'm sure you're a fan of skyrim and this kind of rpgs, which allow you to be a badass in everything, and be the most powerful mage / warrior / thief / crafter / swordsmith / jeweler etc altogether, but it's totally unrealistic and the opposite of fun to me. You can't be the best in everything, no matter how hard you'd try and want it.

Everyone has domains of predilection, like different kind of things. And you don't become a master of combat, hack, science or anything else in a day.

 

 

 

 

[imitenotbecrazy]

1 hour ago, Merzhinhudour said:

Whether you like it or not, the way your skills and character evolves in-game is actually the most accurate and realistic I've ever seen to date.

Because you can't be the best in everything, you've got to specialize. Like in real life. Being able to talk your way out of some situation requires very special skills, and so does being able to hack high security computers, or steal from people without them noticing.

You can take any example, weapons, science, it works the same in real life. Someone who's good with guns will also know some things about how to use rifles or other weapons, because they have common mechanics and requirements.

Dialogue skills also make sense. If you're very good to talk with people and convince them, you could lie, or say the truth, or even threaten them, it would work, because they really believe in your words.

I'm sure you're a fan of skyrim and this kind of rpgs, which allow you to be a badass in everything, and be the most powerful mage / warrior / thief / crafter / swordsmith / jeweler etc altogether, but it's totally unrealistic and the opposite of fun to me. You can't be the best in everything, no matter how hard you'd try and want it.

Everyone has domains of predilection, like different kind of things. And you don't become a master of combat, hack, science or anything else in a day.

 

 

 

 

Well you're "sure" I'm a fan of Skyrim and being a badass at everything huh? Incredibly wrong there lol I want a flawed and imperfect character. My problem with TOW is that all my characters have felt mediocre at everything and not really flawed at anything, besides the couple dump skill groups. Nothing about the skill groups is realistic. It's a lazy and poorly thought out system that's getting absolutely mangled in reviews. 

[Voronja]

On 10/30/2019 at 9:21 AM, BillyCorgan said:

I have 12 hours of play for now, I enjoy every moment, but seriously Obsidian ... I'm not 6 years old!
I do not want to see a hole in a fence just after a closed gate, a code on the table next to the locked PC etc etc ...

And what about that:

Hmmm I hesitate ... is it a staircase or boxes? I doubt...

Honestly, the game is great and I love the work done, but sometimes I feel like you think I'm an idiot ... and it's a shame.

I wish I was 6 then when I approach jump puzzles I don’t click into Hunter mode from Destiny and think I can jump around corners.
 

This game needs air jets on my shoes. Or a mini  parachute like Mary Poppins. 
 

I suspect not everyone found/finds that entrance. 

[Skjefull]

On 10/31/2019 at 4:37 PM, imitenotbecrazy said:

And you're partly right about not having to level the skills you don't want up to 50, but if you want to raise the skill you want above 50, all the other skills in that group have to be 50 first. Again, broadstroking your character into a generic one. 

If you want to raise hacking over 50, Sneak must reach 50 before you can take Hacking any higher. I would have loved to get some Dodge perks in there but have no use for Block. Likewise with Heavy Guns. The game is just forcing me to level skills I don't want in order to make a character I do want. 

This is not completely true.  A skill has to reach 50 before you can specialize in it, but since each skill is affected by different attributes they each start at a different level of competency.  Once one skill in the group hits 50 then you can immediately start specializing that skill.  It almost sounds like you did not pick your attributes that favor the skills you want to specialize in.  Like picking dexterity instead of intelligence, which would make you sneak start higher than your hacking skills. 

[imitenotbecrazy]

6 hours ago, Skjefull said:

This is not completely true.  A skill has to reach 50 before you can specialize in it, but since each skill is affected by different attributes they each start at a different level of competency.  Once one skill in the group hits 50 then you can immediately start specializing that skill.  It almost sounds like you did not pick your attributes that favor the skills you want to specialize in.  Like picking dexterity instead of intelligence, which would make you sneak start higher than your hacking skills. 

I know how it works and my example was just that, an example. I picked my attributes fine to dump the stuff I didn't want, but even then the stuff I did want was not exactly how I would have liked the numbers. And like I said, even if you don't want a skill at all, you'll have to level it with the one you do want until that hits 50. Dodge and Block for example. I like Dodge but have no use for Block. 

[Blodhemn]

Yeah that's the result of nerfing the ability to min/max, as was talked about before the game was announced. Not a fan - most ppl wont replay the game, so it just comes off as ultimately unnecessary game balancing at the cost of unique builds and replayability.

[alanschu]

On 10/30/2019 at 2:29 PM, Wormerine said:

I for one think that the group leveling up is smart thing - It's a gradual specialisation. First you pick attributes, which will mostly define your character and their most useful skills, then you level up groups based on what you wanted to use, and then after trying out different weapons and skills, you can specialise in latter half of leveling.

Yeah I actually really enjoyed the skill level ups. The low level, baseline stuff would all go up but the specialization and harder checks required you to then focus those skills.

[Merzhinhudour]

On 11/2/2019 at 4:28 AM, imitenotbecrazy said:

Well you're "sure" I'm a fan of Skyrim and being a badass at everything huh? Incredibly wrong there lol I want a flawed and imperfect character. My problem with TOW is that all my characters have felt mediocre at everything and not really flawed at anything, besides the couple dump skill groups. Nothing about the skill groups is realistic. It's a lazy and poorly thought out system that's getting absolutely mangled in reviews. 

You want a flawed and imperfect character but you complain that you made a mediocre character ?

If you character wasn't flawed at anything, it was like perfect ? How did you manage that ? As far as I know, you can't max all skills to 100, so you most certainly had flaws and were better in some domains than others.

Your example is priceless. Like, knowing how to Dodge and Block attacks has totally nothing in common. It's not like they could be part of a global knowledge known as martial arts, close combat etc. It makes perfect sense that they're linked, because it's how it works for real.

Someone with basic self-defense skills will be more easily able to dodge and parry / block attacks, than someone who's never fought except with a rifle or gun.

And all skills grouped together make perfect sense, because they're all part of the same domains of knowledges.

You can' be a doctor without a lot of scientific knowledges, and you can't unlock a door or a chest if you don't know how to be silent and agile, and hide.

I wanted to make my character a very talented speaker, but also a talented hacker, and that's how I ended. I wasn't the best shooter, nor the best Leader, nor the best melee fighter.

But I just knew how to defend myself and talk my way out of many situations, avoiding fights, and hacked my way to blackmail some others.

Depending on how you spend your points, each player has different options throughout the whole game, and that's what makes it so great and coherent.

[thearmourofGod]

On 10/31/2019 at 4:01 PM, imitenotbecrazy said:

Completely disagree and I've probably got one of the higher amount of hours into the game on this forum (working from home and not being busy helps). I've been messing around with multiple playthroughs and they're all feeling the same. Others have echoed that same complaint. If you need a comparison, why not their own game, New Vegas? You could assign points to individual skills based on how you wanted your character to progress. Right now, I'm forced to level skills I don't want up to 50 due to this stupid skill group bull****. It's a terribly basic system and I'm shocked people think that's a good RPG mechanic. 

flat-out FALSE

Ive been making multiple characters with completely different skillsets and playing them for about 6-10 hours each:  they do NOT even have close to the same gameplay.

And thats only dealing with the generic point allocations in the first area with limited customization that we know opens up more later.

looks like you just inadvertantly told many of us that you dont know how to make different and diverse characters in an rpg

well-done

 

 

[imitenotbecrazy]

14 hours ago, thearmourofGod said:

flat-out FALSE

Ive been making multiple characters with completely different skillsets and playing them for about 6-10 hours each:  they do NOT even have close to the same gameplay.

And thats only dealing with the generic point allocations in the first area with limited customization that we know opens up more later.

looks like you just inadvertantly told many of us that you dont know how to make different and diverse characters in an rpg

well-done

 

 

Yet I've been able to do that in most RPGs I've played. This is just flat out a mediocre RPG. Full stop. No clauses. Cry about that if you want but it's true and being reflected by many users that aren't blinded by the hopes and dreams that obsidian will make some kind of come back. 

[Beardedgeek72]

12 minutes ago, imitenotbecrazy said:

Yet I've been able to do that in most RPGs I've played. This is just flat out a mediocre RPG. Full stop. No clauses. Cry about that if you want but it's true and being reflected by many users that aren't blinded by the hopes and dreams that obsidian will make some kind of come back. 

You might have a different definition of mediocre than most people.

[Ommamar]

I am personally enjoying the game if you aren't just move on no reason to put energy into something you dislike or feel is a subpar product.

On the original post there have definitely been well duh situations I have run across but then watched multiple people stream and struggle to grasp what is going on.  Of course streaming is harder to focus on the game particularly if you try to keep up with chat conversations or have in mind you are performing in a way that will keep your audience engaged.  It is hard to write a game that will be accessible to everyone, when you are designing and writing code for a game it is easy to forget what may be obvious to you the creator might not be obvious to the end user.  So you have people test it as much as possible to try and negate the situation where you loose the end user.  Sometimes this will make thing seem to obvious or dumbed down to experienced players.