Politics Generations

[Deadly_Nightshade]

4 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

History will look back on Trump and say "This man was a fool"

And very possibly the first President to have ever been removed from office (although that would leave Pence and he's as bad or worse than Trump in many ways). I suspect that this administration will also signal the beginning of the end of unchecked Executive Authority although my guess is that this will take some time, given the unfortunate amount of power creep that has happened, and people will be less willing to stick to limits once someone slightly more sane and stable is in the White House. 

[Guard Dog]

2 hours ago, Deadly_Nightshade said:

I suspect that this administration will also signal the beginning of the end of unchecked Executive Authority although my guess is that this will take some time, given the unfortunate amount of power creep that has happened, and people will be less willing to stick to limits once someone slightly more sane and stable is in the White House. 

Oh how I hope you are correct. If so he will have done this country the biggest service of any President in recent memory even if he did through incompetence and malfeasance. But I don't think it will be that way. Until Congress is ready to assert itself on a President of it's own majority party it won't happen. 

Edited October 18, 2019 by Guard Dog
Grammar

[Gorgon]

Amazing, the orange disaster finally appears to have imploded. All it took was him being him. He's not bouncing back from this is he. 

 

Don't pick a populist next time. 

[smjjames]

10 hours ago, ManifestedISO said:

likely wishful to think, but the piece by McRaven reads as the lone raindrop that will break the dam against conviction in the Senate

 

More than a little bit of American Exceptionalism on the last bit, but guy has a point overall.

10 hours ago, Skarpen said:

You guys are acting like it's the first time US screwed over an ally and made a deal with the bad guys.

I guess you mean something like the Afghan Muhajdeen (sp?)? It certainly wouldn't be the first time we've done something that ends up screwing over an ally, but I don't think it's ever been done this blatantly or recklessly.

Edited October 18, 2019 by smjjames

[Volourn]

All presidents are populists. LMAO It is how they get voted in.

[smjjames]

16 minutes ago, Volourn said:

All presidents are populists. LMAO It is how they get voted in.

Depends on your definition of 'populism' really.

[Gorgon]

36 minutes ago, Volourn said:

All presidents are populists. LMAO It is how they get voted in.

Well, one without Nuremberg rallies and silly hats then.

[Pidesco]

 

Tweeted out by Turkey's former ambassador to the US, apparently.

[smjjames]

Erdogans response to the letter Trump sent is quite telling.

ediitwhiletyping: @Pidesco is certainly a great illustration of how bad the letter was.

edit: @Pidesco Do you have a link to the tweet? So I can link it on another place.

Edited October 18, 2019 by smjjames
activating the ping

[Gfted1]

Lols. Another day, another existential crisis for the republic?

Pants are REALLY going to be soiled when you see the crazed overcorrection of the next Dem president.

[Pidesco]

Overcorrection how?

[smjjames]

I'm wondering that too. Other than the anticipated reversing of as many of Trumps policies as possible, as he did to Obama (though much of it will require Senate cooperation), not sure what gfted1 meant.

[Gorgon]

Isn't it more a question of finally having had enough.  Trump is demonstrating himself as incompetent enough for it to spill over into Republican waters. 

[smjjames]

1 minute ago, Gorgon said:

Isn't it more a question of finally having had enough.  Trump is demonstrating himself as incompetent enough for it to spill over into Republican waters. 

That doesn't answer the question of what @Gfted1 is trying to imply with massive overcorrection of the next Dem president (whether 2020 or 2024).

[Gfted1]

Pendulums swing, back and forth. For every perceived Trump wrongdoing, right or wrong, the Dems will grossly "correct" the "problems" by going in exactly the opposite direction. Our "great republic" has departed from any rational governance and now everything is a pissing contest that MUST be played out in the court of public opinion with maximum snark and minimum rationale. We'll see if Im right in 2-3 year, and I hope Im not.

[Gorgon]

Well, Trump has been systematically dismantling government agencies and installing his cronies. So, I guess the (over) reaction will be the reinstatement of those.  

the whistle blower is more than likely a representative of the status quo, so I mean it's not entirely wrong to say that the 'deep state' got him, even if it happened without a plan as such.  

[Pidesco]

3 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Pendulums swing, back and forth. For every perceived Trump wrongdoing, right or wrong, the Dems will grossly "correct" the "problems" by going in exactly the opposite direction. Our "great republic" has departed from any rational governance and now everything is a pissing contest that MUST be played out in the court of public opinion with maximum snark and minimum rationale. We'll see if Im right in 2-3 year, and I hope Im not.

That's way too vague and generic. Can you give an example of what you mean? Something Trump has done that is perceived as wrong and how it could be overcorrected by Dems.

[uuuhhii]

and trump did create many problem need correcting

what rational government won't try to do that?

[Gfted1]

I cant even convince our resident think tank that I like and want living expense money so Im not too hopeful about this Sisyphus-like discussion. Do you guys think only Trump / Repubs have bad ideas? People are people and everyone thinks their way is the right way to do things. Trump has exacerbated a fundamental breakdown in our ability to work together and imo, the Dems have "no choice" but to go hard in the opposite direction. Theres no middle ground left.

[Gromnir]

3 minutes ago, Pidesco said:

That's way too vague and generic. Can you give an example of what you mean? Something Trump has done that is perceived as wrong and how it could be overcorrected by Dems.

well, can keep the response vague and generic.

trump fails is result o' abandonment o' rule o' law, lack o' respect for Constitution and a transactional pov which ignores morality and ethics as well as a willingness to sow dissension as a political tactic in spite o' obvious dangers o' increased polarization o' the american people. so, pendulum swings and get a moral and ethical chief executive who rededicates to follow rule o' law while maintaining reverence for Constitution as they work to develop bipartisanship and a healing o' political wounds.

such a pendulum swing would be welcomed.

HA! Good Fun!

[Pidesco]

7 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

well, can keep the response vague and generic.

trump fails is result o' abandonment o' rule o' law, lack o' respect for Constitution and a transactional pov which ignores morality and ethics as well as a willingness to sow dissension as a political tactic in spite o' obvious dangers o' increased polarization o' the american people. so, pendulum swings and get a moral and ethical chief executive who rededicates to follow rule o' law while maintaining reverence for Constitution as they work to develop bipartisanship and a healing o' political wounds.

such a pendulum swing would be welcomed.

HA! Good Fun!

I'd argue that's just a correction, not an overcorrection, though.

 

9 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

I cant even convince our resident think tank that I like and want living expense money so Im not too hopeful about this Sisyphus-like discussion. Do you guys think only Trump / Repubs have bad ideas? People are people and everyone thinks their way is the right way to do things. Trump has exacerbated a fundamental breakdown in our ability to work together and imo, the Dems have "no choice" but to go hard in the opposite direction. Theres no middle ground left.

Dems have plenty of bad ideas. Like say Dems have, historically, been responsible for a bunch of misguided foreign meddling. But if they did that again, they'd just be right in line with Trump/GOP practice. So, again, just come up with an example of what you mean.

Hell, I'll come up with an example myself. After the rampant disregard of the Constitution by the Trump admin, in response a Democrat administration decides to declare the Constitution an infallible holy document, that can never be amended in any way(and somehow gets such a resolution to get approved by both houses). This would be an enormous and terrible overcorrection. Also ridiculously silly, and not going to happen.

Now, can you give an example yourself? Preferably one that is in the realm of possibility, unlike mine.

[Malcador]

It is hard to think on what an overcorrection of Trump would be.   Maybe someone that tries to be super inoffensive or something ?

Edited October 18, 2019 by Malcador

[Gfted1]

2 hours ago, Pidesco said:

Now, can you give an example yourself? Preferably one that is in the realm of possibility, unlike mine.

No, not really. Trump hasn't actually accomplished much of anything. He can say anything, but nothing actually happens besides a massive crescendo of piggy squealing noises. Its more a state of mind, once buttocks have become red and swollen, seemingly the only salve is to react in an opposite and angry manner. This very board is a microcosm of that. And its been mentioned that presidents don't actually have the power to act in fiat (except Obama) or even have to power to enact pet projects. So now what we see playing out in daily US politics is that no matter the idea, no matter who came up with it, the "other side" is instantly on the offensive. I feel the next administration will leverage this to show how "right" they were and how "wrong" the other side is.

[Guard Dog]

1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

so, pendulum swings and get a moral and ethical chief executive who rededicates to follow rule o' law while maintaining reverence for Constitution as they work to develop bipartisanship and a healing o' political wounds.

such a pendulum swing would be welcomed.

HA! Good Fun!

Is there anyone running with a realistic shot of being nominated that meets that description? I can't think of one. Unless their stump speeches are all campaign lies. There is always the hope that one of the front running Dems  is a Jacksonian in disguise. Not likely though. 

[Guard Dog]

The will never forgiver her for supporting Sanders in 2016: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/hillary-clinton-says-tulsi-gabbard-is-a-russian-asset-groomed-to-ensure-trump-re-election