Politics: The Undiscovered Country

[smjjames]

*looks up danae* Oh yeah, THAT one was the golden rain incident. I suppose they could have sanitized it as falling gold not!rain which isn't rain but falls like rain.

Alternatively, they could have left it out because it'd trigger conservatives because of the Virgin Mary-likeness.

Edited September 20, 2019 by smjjames

[Skarpen]

So in the spirit of Guard Dog request of more cheerful news I want to point to this story.

President Trump was spotted carrying cash in his pocket and when asked why his answer was that he like to leave tips in hotels. Now this story I like because

A. It's always nice to tip people working for you to have a good experience be it hotel or a restaurant.

B. He propably is doing this for years and we only hear about this because someone asked.

If that would be any other guy he would brag about this to show what a great person he is. Trump may have numerous flaws but he is doing lots of decent stuff and consider them to be something normal rather than opportunity to virtue signaling.

[ManifestedISO]

dude is a malignant narcissist manifestly incapable of conscience and empathy required to understand intent by another, let alone prepare for, calculate, and apply gratuity

 

if the Times is accurate, then extorting Ukraine for political gain isn't the only high crime in the complaint ... 

 

 

[Gromnir]

https://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/laurence-tribe-on-trump-s-desperate-legal-filing-and-whistleblower-69435461887

the suggestion the President can't even be investigated for a state criminal proceeding is...

am actual unable to describe the disquiet am feeling. is hard to imagine history will look back with sympathy and understanding if we as a people allow this kinda executive excess to continue. 

[Pidesco]

49 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

https://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/laurence-tribe-on-trump-s-desperate-legal-filing-and-whistleblower-69435461887

the suggestion the President can't even be investigated for a state criminal proceeding is...

am actual unable to describe the disquiet am feeling. is hard to imagine history will look back with sympathy and understanding if we as a people allow this kinda executive excess to continue. 

 

That doesn't strike me as an isolated event. All in all, it seems to me that ship has sailed?

The extent to which the Trump admin is being treated as business as usual by so many, especially in D.C. and in the media still amazes me. American political institutions are going to hell in a hand basket and no one seems to be aware or interested in doing anything about it.

[Maedhros]

3 hours ago, Skarpen said:

So in the spirit of Guard Dog request of more cheerful news I want to point to this story.

President Trump was spotted carrying cash in his pocket and when asked why his answer was that he like to leave tips in hotels. Now this story I like because

A. It's always nice to tip people working for you to have a good experience be it hotel or a restaurant.

B. He propably is doing this for years and we only hear about this because someone asked.

If that would be any other guy he would brag about this to show what a great person he is. Trump may have numerous flaws but he is doing lots of decent stuff and consider them to be something normal rather than opportunity to virtue signaling.

Sorry for this non-cheerful reply then - You'd have to be a pretty damn sad human being to be rich and NOT leave a tip when a restaurant/hotel gives you a good experience. Isn't it very, very common to give tips in the US? Hardly something to brag about, and probably why Trump considers it "something normal" as you say.

On a sidenote, I hate the cultural thing where some low-paying jobs are expected to get tips, and others don't. As a kindergarten teacher I wouldn't mind rich parents giving me tips!

[Skarpen]

43 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

Sorry for this non-cheerful reply then - You'd have to be a pretty damn sad human being to be rich and NOT leave a tip when a restaurant/hotel gives you a good experience. Isn't it very, very common to give tips in the US? Hardly something to brag about, and probably why Trump considers it "something normal" as you say.

On a sidenote, I hate the cultural thing where some low-paying jobs are expected to get tips, and others don't. As a kindergarten teacher I wouldn't mind rich parents giving me tips!

People don't give tips to kindergarten teachers where you live? 

[Maedhros]

3 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

People don't give tips to kindergarten teachers where you live? 

Haha no, is that normal elsewhere? I'm gonna tell all the parents if so! We usually get some presents (wine, chocolate, stuff like that) before christmas and summer holidays, but that's it.

[Guard Dog]

3 hours ago, Gromnir said:

https://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/laurence-tribe-on-trump-s-desperate-legal-filing-and-whistleblower-69435461887

the suggestion the President can't even be investigated for a state criminal proceeding is...

am actual unable to describe the disquiet am feeling. is hard to imagine history will look back with sympathy and understanding if we as a people allow this kinda executive excess to continue. 

This has been building for years. Since Wilson the Imperial Presidency has been a thing. Some might even argue since Lincoln but IMO it really starts with Wilson. Trump is the worst in my lifetime but if it wasn't him it would have been someone else. There is a joke/story/parable I have heard a few times. Mostly about Obama but it has been around before him. "You" are invited to dinner at the White House. During the dinner the President keeps taking things off your plate for the "starving children" starting with the dinner roll. When he takes the last thing off your plate and you protest the President tells you "You should have stopped me after the dinner roll". The US and it's elected representatives and Courts have sat quietly by and allowed President  after President to usurp powers from the legislature and invent others from thin air. The legislature has even been complicit, ceding powers to the Executive and never taking them back. IMO they do it because all the members of Congress dream of the day they will have that power. Sooner or later someone takes the next step. The fact that so many people seem to approve of everything Trump does (a big reason I don't hang out at the VFW these days) is pretty upsetting as well. 

We are losing the checks and balances between the branches of government. But it's only happening because it's being allowed to happen. It can be stopped and rolled back at any time but it seems like it won't be. The ultimate check is, of course, the election. But there is not one person running not named Gabbard, Sanford, or Bullock that would make a decent President. And their campaigns are being snuffed out by their own parties and a "complicit media" so to speak. 

[Hurlshort]

It's a bit of an ethical grey area to tip teachers. I mean, are you paying for higher marks? Special treatment? The intent may be perfectly noble and innocent, but the optics of the situation can go sideways quickly.

[Maedhros]

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/09/20/sanders-vows-if-elected-pursue-criminal-charges-against-fossil-fuel-ceos-knowingly

Quote

You're producing a product... and then you learn that the product you're producing is killing people, right? Which is the case, say, with the Purdue and Johnson & Johnson opioid manufacturers.

The evidence is pretty clear that in terms of Purdue and Johnson & Johnson, they learned at a certain point that the opioids they were producing were causing an epidemic and people were dying. And you know what they did? They continued to produce it and hire more salesmen to go out and sell it. What do you do to those folks.

Now, because you have in this country... a corrupt criminal justice system, CEOs and millionaires don't go to jail. People go to jail, kids go to jail, for selling marijuana, but if you kill hundreds of people, thousands of people, and you're a CEO and a billionaire, you don't go to jail. That's the nature of the system in America. It's a system I intend to change.

 

[....]

 

"President Bernie Sanders will ensure that his Department of Justice and Securities and Exchange Commission investigate these companies and bring suits—both criminal and civil—for any wrongdoing, just as the federal government did with the tobacco industry in the 1980s,"

Would be interesting to follow such a criminal charge, with all the climate-change denial out there.

[Guard Dog]

27 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/09/20/sanders-vows-if-elected-pursue-criminal-charges-against-fossil-fuel-ceos-knowingly

Would be interesting to follow such a criminal charge, with all the climate-change denial out there.

I suppose it's an improvement that you want them imprisoned. Many of your fellow WoT Foum posters want them dead.

Well, I say we ban all cars. In fact I saw we ban the internal combustion engine altogether. Gone. Electric cars too because they must be recharged by electricity which of course is generated using fossil fuels. So... ban it all. 

BTW, my newest business venture:

 

BAN ALL CARS! Save the planet. Buy a horse from Guard Dog!

[Gfted1]

If that horse is going to cut me a check for 36k, then its got my vote!

[Skarpen]

49 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/09/20/sanders-vows-if-elected-pursue-criminal-charges-against-fossil-fuel-ceos-knowingly

Would be interesting to follow such a criminal charge, with all the climate-change denial out there.

So charging ppl who don't believe in hoaxes? Nice. Isn't it enough that climate propaganda destroys kids psyche? Didn't climate psychos done enough damage?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/eco-anxiety-climate-change-parent-fear-discussion-children-global-warming-depression-effects-1459731%3famp=1

[Maedhros]

26 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

I suppose it's an improvement that you want them imprisoned. Many of your fellow WoT Foum posters want them dead.

Well, I say we ban all cars. In fact I saw we ban the internal combustion engine altogether. Gone. Electric cars too because they must be recharged by electricity which of course is generated using fossil fuels. So... ban it all. 

BTW, my newest business venture:

 

BAN ALL CARS! Save the planet. Buy a horse from Guard Dog!

I didn't say I wanted them imprisoned, that would depend on the individual case. Just saying, it's gonna be interesting to follow such ethically, and legally challenging cases in the future.

Btw, Electric cars are a huge hit here, and is pretty green too since we're a heavy producer of renewable energy. CO2 emissions got pretty drastically reduced in a few years because of it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_electric_vehicles_in_Norway#Effects_on_average_fleet_CO2_emissions

Edited September 20, 2019 by Maedhros

[smjjames]

17 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

I suppose it's an improvement that you want them imprisoned. Many of your fellow WoT Foum posters want them dead.

Well, I say we ban all cars. In fact I saw we ban the internal combustion engine altogether. Gone. Electric cars too because they must be recharged by electricity which of course is generated using fossil fuels. So... ban it all. 

BTW, my newest business venture:

 

BAN ALL CARS! Save the planet. Buy a horse from Guard Dog!

Congrats on the foal.

Found an interesting simulation on ranked choice voting for the Dem primary:

Data and the simulation.

Vox article that discusses it

Turns out that whether starting from a slate of all 20 (less now actually, I think it may be 19 now that De Blasio dropped out) or from the top 10 or 5, the resilts were similar each time. Of course, it's just a simulation, it's not neccesarily a sign that Warren will ultimately win.

[Pidesco]

12 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

So charging ppl who don't believe in hoaxes? Nice. Isn't it enough that climate propaganda destroys kids psyche? Didn't climate psychos done enough damage?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/eco-anxiety-climate-change-parent-fear-discussion-children-global-warming-depression-effects-1459731%3famp=1

I hope you realize you are functionally the same as a flat earther.

[smjjames]

*wishes quotes within quotes worked in here*

2 minutes ago, Pidesco said:

at skarpen: i hope you realize you are functionally the same as a flat earther.

Inb4 climate change itself destroys kids psyche.

[uuuhhii]

18 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

So charging ppl who don't believe in hoaxes? Nice. Isn't it enough that climate propaganda destroys kids psyche? Didn't climate psychos done enough damage?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/eco-anxiety-climate-change-parent-fear-discussion-children-global-warming-depression-effects-1459731%3famp=1

damage by crushing truth or too damaged to face the truth are not exactly a choice

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by uuuhhii

[Maedhros]

27 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

So charging ppl who don't believe in hoaxes? Nice. Isn't it enough that climate propaganda destroys kids psyche? Didn't climate psychos done enough damage?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/eco-anxiety-climate-change-parent-fear-discussion-children-global-warming-depression-effects-1459731%3famp=1

There is strong scientific consensus on it being real. Hoax....come on dude. As if pretty much every scientist is in on some elaborate scheme. Read up on Exxon's climate denying past. Even they admit it's real now.

[Skarpen]

30 minutes ago, Pidesco said:

I hope you realize you are functionally the same as a flat earther.

By siding with the scientists who keep saying that climate change alarmists are nuts and who keep debunking stupid crap they put out? Maybe you should educate yourself and read a book or two by real scientists instead of political nutjobs like AOC or Gore.

6 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

There is strong scientific consensus on it being real. Hoax....come on dude. As if pretty much every scientist is in on some elaborate scheme. Read up on Exxon's climate denying past. Even they admit it's real now.

38 minutes ago, uuuhhii said:

damage by crushing truth or too damaged to face the truth are not exactly a choice

Scientific consensus was made long time ago. I learned about climate changes in school in the early 90's, not on some concert or political rally. 

The consensus is clearly not that we will die in 12 years, or was it 10 years or that the number is not literal or it is literal or depending on the political situation x is responsible, but the next time y is responsible because it's more convenient.

I'm smart enough to not be intimidated by some halfwit celebrity trying to intimidate me to reduce my carbon footprint while he/she/it flies by private jet to climate conference releasing more carbon than I could possibly do in a decade. 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

53 minutes ago, Pidesco said:

I hope you realize you are functionally the same as a flat earther.

Not really, flat earthers don't disproportionately wield influence they use to jeopardize the entire planet while enriching themselves. If climate denialists were equivalent to flat earthers we might not be in the **** we are now.

[Hurlshort]

Skarpie calls it a hoax, then blames rich people for having a bigger carbon footprint.

[Skarpen]

3 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

Skarpie calls it a hoax, then blames rich people for having a bigger carbon footprint.

Please show me where I did that? Your reading comprehension is very poor man.

[Hurlshort]

3 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

Please show me where I did that? Your reading comprehension is very poor man.

No thanks. Maybe you are just lousy at expressing yourself.