Politics: The Undiscovered Country

[Azdeus]

3 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Didn't use to be this way. But now? Yeah. 

Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. 

- H.L. Mencken

[Guard Dog]

Yep. The oldest trick in the book to get people to supplicate themselves and surrender their liberty to the state is to convince them X is scary and only the State can save them from X. The Democrats do it with climate and capitalism. Trump with immigrants. Not that there are not problems. They are just not apocalyptic. 

[Guard Dog]

Beto on mandatory gun buyback. https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/09/01/sotu-beto-on-buybacks.cnn

As before my answer is "F--k you. Come take them." 

 

As for mandatory licensing to own a firearm, what and excellent idea. We should also require a license to print a newspaper, or write a letter to the editor, or call your Congressman. They are already requiring (and often denying) permits to peaceably assemble and petition the government for redress of grievances so that is already out. Just think of the money that could be raised on defendants buying a license for a speedy trial by a jury of their peers. Hell they are already paying their lawyers a fortune why shouldn't the state get a taste of that. Want to be secure in your home? Protected from search and seizure? Gotta get a license for that. Otherwise the cops can just come in anytime they feel like it. Want to vote? Better get a license. And we can even charge states licenses to exercise powers not enumerated to the federal government. Oh.. sorry that ship has already sunk. The Federal government has ALL the power now. F--k it! Charge them for a license anyway! Not like it will be the first worthless license the state will force you to buy. 

Yes sir. Begging the State's permission to enjoy a right they are forbidden from taking from you (but do anyway because f--k you we have a military). What a fine idea!

Edited September 10, 2019 by Guard Dog

[Azdeus]

26 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Yep. The oldest trick in the book to get people to supplicate themselves and surrender their liberty to the state is to convince them X is scary and only the State can save them from X. The Democrats do it with climate and capitalism. Trump with immigrants. Not that there are not problems. They are just not apocalyptic. 

I will disagree about the climate there, it's pretty much the definition of apocalypse - the more of the Amazon that burns down the more ****ed we are aswell. But yeah, Capitalism or immigration, neither are world ending in of it's own.

[Guard Dog]

11 minutes ago, Azdeus said:

I will disagree about the climate there, it's pretty much the definition of apocalypse - the more of the Amazon that burns down the more ****ed we are aswell. But yeah, Capitalism or immigration, neither are world ending in of it's own.

 Let’s assume for a moment the climate change is entirely man-made, as opposed to man  exacerbated,  if the United States immediately disassembled it’s entire industrial infrastructure and converted to agrarian feudalism  but nobody else changed anything would that really delay the apocalypse? I’m guessing no. That means Barack Obama’s promises that his election would begin to heal the planet and the modern day Democrats thumping on the green new deal the way a Southern Baptist minister would beat on the Bible is really just exploiting fear in the quest for power 

[Gfted1]

12 hours ago, Captain Corcoran said:

Unbridled immigration will break our backs.  You can't legislate a safety net over several decades and then make it available as a right the first second someone steps foot in your country.  It's not tenable.

Fake news. Our think tank has determined that even though every single nation on Earth enforces immigration quotas, its just for the lulz and xenophobia.

[Azdeus]

26 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

 Let’s assume for a moment the climate change is entirely man-made, as opposed to man  exacerbated,  if the United States immediately disassembled it’s entire industrial infrastructure and converted to agrarian feudalism  but nobody else changed anything would that really delay the apocalypse? I’m guessing no. That means Barack Obama’s promises that his election would begin to heal the planet and the modern day Democrats thumping on the green new deal the way a Southern Baptist minister would beat on the Bible is really just exploiting fear in the quest for power 

Well, the scientists are agreed on the source of global warming, sure, if only the US does it it wouldn't matter; But just something like the EU disallowing pleasure cruisers that'd be the same amount of sulphur emissions of all the private vehicles in the EU. You have to start somewhere though, and I can't comment to much on the green new deal, it's not really interesting/relevant for me as a Swede after all, but if everyone would do their little bit you'd get a quite big total that might equal to if the US went back to a medieval feudal system

[uuuhhii]

how is that any argument?

xenophobia also exist everywhere

few would stupid enough to claim they can stop climate change or save human society from it

most they can promise are just try to stop the people stupid enough to pointlessly hasten it

Edited September 10, 2019 by uuuhhii

[Maedhros]

A defeatist attitude definitely won't save the planet. You gotta start somewhere. I don't buy the "so what if we change, they won't" argument. But yeah, drastic changes will just lead to strife so you gotta progress in a way that makes sense (which is hard when you take the stakes into account). One babystep the government did over here was giving people incentives to buy electric cars, with cheaper toll payments for el-car owners. So now pretty much everyone and their neighbours drive around in Teslas.

---

Warren seems to be gaining ground, beating Biden in recent polls. Could just be a temporary thing, but still. Not bad considering she started out with a failed PR-stunt. Her platform will probably disgust many of you (https://elizabethwarren.com/issues/):

 

Helping the poor and middle class:

• Medicare 4 All

• Universal free childcare

• Eliminate most student debt (unless you’re rich)

• Universal free college

• Lowering rent payments by 10%

Fighting corruption and unfairness:

• Overturning Citizens United

• Ending voter suppression, gerrymandering, and PACs

• Banning private prisons

• Jail time for executives overseeing massive scams

• Eliminating the electoral college

• Ban former congressmen from becoming lobbyists for life

• Curb corporate influence on the Pentagon

• Lobbyists must register and not be foreign govt backed

• Ban Congress from trading stocks

• Create Code of Ethics for Supreme Court

• Workers elect at least 40% of the company’s board

• Indict Presidents

Improving our nation:

• Tackling the Opiod Crisis

• Legalizing marijuana

• Green New Deal

• Ending drilling on public lands

• Increasing renewable energy production

• Automatic voter registration

• Election Day as a national holiday

Paid for with help from:

• Wealth tax (with a 40% exit tax on trying to dodge it by leaving the country)

• Corporate profits tax based on global profits revealed to investors

• Cutting bloated military budget

Edited September 10, 2019 by Maedhros

[Captain Corcoran]

Today allegedly will provide some idea as to how the 2020 elections are shaping up.  Special election in North Carolina.

https://ballotpedia.org/North_Carolina's_3rd_Congressional_District_special_election,_2019

Before I address the 'fear mongering' bashing by fellow 'fear mongers,' let me address Warren.  She's probably got the best campaign game of any of the likely Democratic candidates.  Her policies are terrible, but, hey, that's the Dem field this election.

[Gfted1]

Oooooh, I like that list of freebies! Hopefully "lowering rent 10%" ---> ""lowering my mortgage 10%". I don't like cutting the military but Ill be dead by the time China storms California. Before I make a decision, does anyone have a list of the grab bag Bernie is offering? I don't want to miss out on some sweet sweat of someone else brow that he may be giving away.

[Captain Corcoran]

The problem with climate change arguments is that they require humanity not to act like humans.  The wife and I ran into a friend while we out some time ago.  She was eating alone in the restaurant and, even though we were there for our anniversary, we joined her.  When the server delivered our water, she asked if we wanted straws.  My wife wanted one but I never ask for a straw since it seems to be a big deal to people.  Our friend mentioned that she hated having to ask for a straw because she felt guilty and that's why she always had straws in her purse.  I said not to worry about it because the impact of straws is negligible.  It's the most silly assed hill to fight for.  She then spent a few minutes lecturing me about how every little bit helps and I shouldn't feel that way.  She wasn't rude and she was so earnest that I didn't even point out the irony that she brought her plastic straws so she wouldn't have to ask for them while I, who think the straw issue is actually counter-productive to the conservatism and responsible stewardship, eschewed the use of a straw altogether.

Ban cruise lines?  Why not?  I don't use them!  Ban air conditioning?  Why not?  I live in a temperate climate!  Energy is a prime contributor to green house gasses!  Ban needless use of electricity?  Why not I don't... play games?  …visit a gaming forum on my computer while reading others' posts on my large monitor?  ...watch YouTube?  Want to head out to a ball game?  Electric cars!  Wait, how do we manufacture those cars?  How do we provide fuel (electricity) to those cars?  Well, nuclear power is pretty damned clean, we can use that!  "Never!"

We talk about defeatist?  The measures that might have any meaningful impact (by the climate police's own models!) would lead to more world strife than measures to mitigate the effects of climate change.  ...And telling me that I should crumble the economy and global influence and power in my country because that's at least something only so the Chinese can become the world's sole super-power and then just increase their footprint by the whatever margin I lowered mine isn't an answer.  If the models are right, defeat isn't the question.  It's the inevitability.

[Azdeus]

33 minutes ago, Captain Corcoran said:

 

Ban cruise lines?  Why not?  I don't use them!

Just as a funny aside; I think Sweden would have Sharia law before ´the government here would ban cruiseliners, imagine the uproar if people here wouldn't have easy access to taxfree that they've had access to for decades...

[Malcador]

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/10/trump-says-he-fired-national-security-advisor-john-bolton.html

But minutes later, Bolton in his own tweet said that he “offered to resign” Monday night — and that Trump told him, “Let’s talk about it tomorrow.”  “I offered to resign last night. He never asked for it, directly or indirectly,” Bolton said in a later text to NBC News.

[smjjames]

Did you know you can highlight a block of text and a little button will come up so you can quote that block? Sometimes you have to do it twice though.

9 hours ago, Captain Corcoran said:

We can withstand four more years of Trump.  We can withstand four years of any of these candidates, even terrible ones (which is almost the entirety of the Democrats remaining on the field at this point). 

'terrible' is relative and subjective here though, as a conservative, you have a different view of 'terrible' than I do. Anyways, was gonna respond more to that post earlier, but the conversation has moved on since.

5 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Beto on mandatory gun buyback. https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/09/01/sotu-beto-on-buybacks.cnn

Also gotta wonder how they'd even enforce it in the first place. Plus it sounds kind of like an oxymoron doesn't it, a mandatory buyback isn't exactly a buyback is it?

1 minute ago, Malcador said:

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/10/trump-says-he-fired-national-security-advisor-john-bolton.html

 

 

They'd also apparently gotten into an argument over the Taliban invitation to Camp David last night. Naturally, everybody found out about it via tweet.

Kind of an odd mix anyway due to the fact that Bolton is such a hawk where Trump isn't.

[Hurlshort]

Straws are dumb. I guess if your arms are broken, they are important, but I can't think of many other reasons why they are such a big deal. Drink from the freaking cup. 

[ktchong]

 

“脸皮已经撕破了。不需要跟美国客气了。”

 

It is known.

Edited September 10, 2019 by ktchong

[Gfted1]

35 minutes ago, smjjames said:

Also gotta wonder how they'd even enforce it in the first place. Plus it sounds kind of like an oxymoron doesn't it, a mandatory buyback isn't exactly a buyback is it?

They would go after the "registered" gun owners. That's why its important to never get a gun license. Then they know where you are and what you have.

[Gromnir]

12 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Didn't use to be this way. But now? Yeah. 

hmmm.

sooper long and replying not just to gd, so apologies in advance.

anybody Gromnir's age or older (and maybe a few years younger) lived during cold war when MAD and a thin sliver o' common sense were the only things protecting a fragile peace. find somebody from our generation who did not literal have the nuclear holocaust nightmare wake us in dead o' night more than a few times. were a constant fear for decades.

has always been something, albeit less singular than nuclear apocalypse, and am expecting 2019 has less such fears than any generation o' Americans we care to name. technology and culture has changed (not always advanced) and far fewer o' us live in daily fear than at any other time in history. most o' us in the US is no longer afraid o' having enough food to get through winter, which were a real thing for much o' history, and while the zombie apocalypse is no doubt frightening a few boardies, modern medicine has diminished many more reasonable disease related concerns. GD is still in tennessee, yes? as a catholic with a bit more melanin than the typical european, is all kinda fears we woulda' need endure living in tennessee through almost all o' its history... and fears we kinda thought were in the rear-view mirror culturally are making a comeback.

watch film o' any group o' primates in the wild for any length o' time. they is skittish. fight or flight is a constant. from an evolution pov, we ain't far removed from any o' our primate cousins. we still have fight or flight instincts, which is perhaps why long-term dangers such as global warming fail to cause us the fear they should-- not immediate enough. regardless, we are always afraid o' something, because we has always been afraid and that is how we is hardwired. fears may be big or small, but the myth o' the brave frontiersman or pioneer is hogwash and hoccum. pioneer with his family woulda' been having deal with constant fear o' weather and disease and attacks from other humans and insects and a dozen other threats real and imagined. 

perhaps is more striking 'cause indeed there is less to be afraid o' today than yesteryear and yet we still collectively quake and shiver in the darkness. regardless, americans has always been afraid. trump has, as numerous President's before him, weaponized such fear. is not new. 

be afraid o' immigrants 'cause they take jobs and commit crime. 1920s nativism were worse than today. even so, automation is the main reason manufacturing jobs is disappearing and no amount o' immigration control is gonna change that. and how many folks born in the US is angry they can't get a job picking oranges or cleaning hotel rooms 'cause immigrants will work for less money? is no doubt a large voting bloc. *snort* heck, immigrants commit crime at lower rates than native born americans. 'course illegal immigration had been steadily declining for decades until trump fostered instability in central america while simultaneous threatening to shut down immigration complete. big shock a sudden influx o' immigrants head toward the US.

solution: a wall.

HA!

yeah, we need immigration reform, which is why we has been talking immigration reform since a time when it were the Democrats who were the party which were trying to limit immigration... which is why an old dog like Gromnir has a bit o' perspective. immigration is a decades old debate and is serious, but is not an emergency and should not be a source o' fear. oh, and making immigrants (as 'posed to immigration) a source o' fear is arguable evil. 

'course what we really need is a muslim ban...

*insert eye roll*

antifa sucks, (have hopefully disabused gd that bernie somehow has given even tacit support to antifa) but somehow trump has flipped the script.  he is defender o' speech? trump has attempted to censor voices in the executive branch on issues from climate to hud and he even lies 'bout the weather (weather and climate is not same btw, but try and explain that to trump.) the noaa tries to censor its own experts who would correct the President? 

the entire "fake news" and enemy of the people" insanity is an attempt to gaslight a generation and undermine those who would speak truth to power.

ff to ~36:15.

coulda' done short clip, but folks mighta' accused us o' taking outta context, so watch entire if you wish.

and yeah, on college campuses, where far right is a minority, there is has been attempts to censor speakers with the "wrong" viewpoint. is ugly, stoopid and unamerican the way the spirit o' the First Amendment has been abandoned by so many... which includes the clowns and their fears o' the press. have tried to help inform on this point, but ny times v. sullivan is Not a free press case. as an American you may share opinions 'bout public figures and you need not fear litigation or criminalization 'less you knowing lie. all of us may speak 'bout public events and people with the Constitution protecting us as we do so.

those batcrap crazy folks who refuse to recognize that the same Constitutional protections which make it possible for talking heads on fox or msnbc to be speaking 'bout public figures or events o' public interest w/o fear o' government interference is same protections which protect folks on street corners and parks and on internet message boards. 

1) those dirty lefties trying to muzzle milo yiannopoulos is the real problem.

and

2) somebody needs to stop the press cabal (HA!) and their constant attacks of trump.

...

mental gymnastics or ignorance capable o' expressing both views simultaneous leaves us disappointed and a little afraid 'cause is so common, and is the horse p00p the current administration is shoveling. for chrissakes, read or signature. 

afraid and ignorant. the current administration depends on fear and ignorance.

as an aside, am thinking the internet and the 21st century speed o' communication in general makes fear seem worse today. in the past, folks didn't have a way to share their fears with anybody beyond a small circle o' acquaintances, and they wouldn't even if they could. twitter and social media and boards like this where folks share their every thought on everything? is new. am not embracing the need to share every personal thought on twitter, accompanied by selfies, but it is a thing, and is far too common for a guy who still carries around a flip phone and who refuses to even text.

HA! Good Fun!

[ShadySands]

22 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

Straws are dumb. I guess if your arms are broken, they are important, but I can't think of many other reasons why they are such a big deal. Drink from the freaking cup. 

I like straws. I have a few reusable ones made out of either silicone or metal. I really like the paper straws too but I don't do plastic straws and haven't for a long time.

[Gromnir]

22 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

I like straws. I have a few reusable ones made out of either silicone or metal. I really like the paper straws too but I don't do plastic straws and haven't for a long time.

quick aside: bolton were fired. another national security advisor gone.

is the advice bad or is the advice wrong? if trump is firing 'cause advice is wrong, then he is a fool. if advice is bad, well that is different. in any event, bolton is gone.

as to straws, am only ever using when we order a drink from a fast food place, which ain't often. the thing is, straws do make easier when drinking a beverage while driving. am s'posing we could keep a environmental friendly straw in our car(s) jic we order a double-double and a dr. pepper.  probably should, but happens infrequent.

HA! Good Fun!

ps this might be the thing which finally ends sharpie-gate, but the problem is there is already questions regarding lies and honesty insofar as the announcement o' bolton leaving. bolton says he offered to resign last night. trump says he asked bolton to resign. timing is weird considering hours ago the wh announced bolton and pompeo and others would be at a 1:30pm news conference today.

sure, could be trump playing fast and loose with language rather than overt lie, but will be interesting if trump insists he demanded resignation before bolton offered. another unnecessary double-down?

Edited September 10, 2019 by Gromnir

[Captain Corcoran]

I didn't use to like straws, but the little lady has me using them.  Of course, I'm the one who gets to wash them.  Our straws are plastic, but they're reusable and we've had them for years.

The foreign policy of this administration can be alarming.  I don't always understand it.

EDIT:  The Bolton thing is bad.  Could Trump throw us a bone? !  He f'n undercuts his supporters all the time.  At least his less basish supporters.

Edited September 10, 2019 by Captain Corcoran

[Gfted1]

Im in the middle wrt straws. This one time I went to take a sip and a straw accidentally went up my nostril.

[Gromnir]

Trump pushing for major crackdown on homeless camps in California, with aides discussing moving residents to government-backed facilities

...

what?

...

perhaps another national emergency?

can't think o' a legal mechanic for fed going into CA, or another state, and rounding up US citizens with intention o' placing 'em in internment camps. gd is apoplectic at the thought o' government takings, which is Constitutional as long as the taking is compensated, and has him running for his firearms to defend his stuff. can only imagine how he would react to this.

gonna finally snap and have his gandalf moment?

this is the kinda thing 'bout which people should be afraid. not gd running for firearms to protect a chainsaw, but rather the fed government going into states and rounding up undesirables. 

HA! Good Fun!
 

[Amentep]

Straws really only make sense to me for thick drinks (like milkshakes) that you'd otherwise have to eat with a spoon.  Or if you're Archie.

 

But...they don't really make a lot of sense otherwise, IMO.