The Ultimate discussion thread Pt 2

[Raven Darkholme]

Hm, still cheesing with the grimoire boi, I killed Nemnok (who doesn't have too many interesting spells to steal) and trying out chromoprismatics entropy shield enchant, not only does it provide 17% dr at max metaphysics, you can unequip it (after sofing) save and reload and name will change from entropy shield to chromoprismatic.

It won't scale with metaphysics anymore and go down to 5%, however now you can reequip chromoprismatic and get a stacking 17% entropy shield on top.

 

edit: nvm it's trash, since it resets when you get hit by an enemy in combat, so even if SOF gave u infinite duration it will be reset to 16 secs or smth.

Edited June 5, 2021 by Raven Darkholme

[Kaylon]

On 6/5/2021 at 3:02 PM, Raven Darkholme said:

Btw, while cheesing around with grimoire build I accidentally found out that doubleclick equipping slippers of the assassin gives you shadow form...

I somehow must have either always equipped it the traditional way or never realized this before.

This makes for much less hassle in having to find a barrel or enemy to kill.

Didn't manage to replicate your trick. Maybe it was a bug...

[Raven Darkholme]

50 minutes ago, Kaylon said:

Didn't manage to replicate your trick. Maybe it was a bug...

Hm weird I've done it on several separate saves now.

Put slippers in your invent and double click them, maybe you tried from stash?

Or put another bootpair on and then slippers in invent, rapidly doubleclick, also works as long as slippers are last equipped ones ofc.

[Waski]

On 2/16/2021 at 6:11 PM, abot said:

I'd like to start a list of useful items primary for no priest subclass/no pure wizard builds using item switching to prolong beneficial effect duration out of combat ( strand of favor, cabalist's gambeson arcane extension, ooblit pet...), please add to the list if you find relevant missing things

serpent strike (+10acc) from serpent crown

[abot]

useful items primarily for no priest subclass/no pure wizard builds using item switching to prolong beneficial effect duration out of combat
( strand of favor, cabalist's gambeson arcane extension, ooblit pet...), please add to the list if you find relevant missing things.

Note: I've just discovered so far the faster way to prolong the effects in my experience:  if you have both strand of favor and cabalist's gambeson, equip both of them, than place an armor and a necklace in player inventory, click e.g. the necklace, hover on the armor (or vice-versa), double click; this way one double click will swap both necklace and armor slots, doubling the swap speed

Note: a way to trigger watcher blooded state out of combat is using double necklace of fireballs on self, just pay attention when Vela is moving around (you can have double necklace of fireballs from dunnage+neketaka vendors so you can use it soon with cabalist's gambeson from arkemyr's vault). You can use also double Missile Gloves (Crookspur + Deck of Many Things vendors), but those may come later depending on your path

any unguent can be easily prolonged for +2 skill
Arcanist's Balm (+2 Alchemy, +2 Arcana, +2 Explosives)
Blessed Incense (+2 History, +2 Insight, +2 Metaphysics, +2 Religion)
Oil of Allure (+2 Bluff, +2 Diplomacy, +2 Intimidate, +2 Streetwise)
Thief's Putty (+2 Mechanics, +2 Sleight of Hand, +2 Stealth)
Unguent of Animalism (+2 Athletics, +2 Survival)

Antidote Immunity to Poison attacks for 30 sec

Aply the drug, prolong a little bit, save, reload.
Just be sure to apply Deadeye LAST as it seems to be the one giving problems to the rest.

Coral Snuff    (+10% Action Speed, +5 Deflection, +5 Reflex for 180 sec) 
Mouth Char (-5% Damage taken, +15% Damage with weapons for 180 sec)
Ripple Sponge (+3 Perception, Resolve, and Intellect for 180 sec)
Svef (+3 Perception, -25% Hostile effect duration, Resistance to Intellect, Perception, and Resolve afflictions for 180 sec)
Taru Turu Chew (+3 Constitution, Might, and Dexterity for 180 sec)
Whiteleaf (Concentration, +10 Will, +1 Health restored per 3 sec for 180 sec)

Deadeye (+5 Accuracy, 15% chance to Interrupt on scoring Hit for 180 sec) APPLY LAST

I think when trying the ultimate to submit it to the developers, is better not to spam save, reload (there is a chance it could be not accepted), so maybe better to apply 1 drug at a time/once before exiting the game session

Amra battle axe with Tempered Fury enchantment, Frenzy without deflection penalty, 25% chance on kill. triggers with barrels, ranger pet or blight from magran's favor belt

bardatto's luxury death and taxes: hardy on unconscious ally, not hard to trigger on combat and can be prolonged out of combat as it lasts long
bardatto's luxury grace: not sure but in theory you could be able to prolong the +3 health per 6 sec, harder though as starting duration is very low

chromoprismatic quarterstaff elemental induction (+15% Damage for 10.0 sec when hit with Acid / Fire / Frost / Electricity attacks), e.g. use necklace of fireballs to trigger

death's maw death runes? (within 5m of a killed enemy grants -15% incoming damage for 10 sec) not tested yet, may be not so easy to prolong
Death's runes can't be extended, it's a temporary aura ON the corpses, similar to cipher effects on foe

devil of caroc breastplate devil's due +2 health restored per 3.0 sec for 6.0 sec on critical hit with weapons (hit vela)

griffin's blade loyal companion: steadfast on blooded, not so easy to prolong permanently (gets overriden by spells giving the same effect) but useful as alternative to no pity for the lost watcher ability

least unstable coil Empowered Being (all lvl3 inspirations, however like all inspirations buffs if you're hit by afflictions your inspirations will degrade if you're not immune from afflictions. if you are immune it will not be overwritten unless you use it again. Also if you unequip, save, reload the buff will be saved with a different name and no more overwritten but it may weaken some effects of the inspirations like robust)

Less/Least Unstable Coil Spirit Siphon (15% action speed, stacks with Tempered Fury from Amra and Bolting Strikes from Lord Darryn's Voulge)

Lord Darryn's Voulge Bolting Strikes (10% chance on hit to get Quick for 10.0 sec, 15% Damage dealt as Shock with weapons for 10.0 sec)

Lover's Embrace dagger: Frenzy (25% action speed, -10 deflection, Strong, Fit for 15 sec) from Lover's Quarrel on female target enchant, get it by critting Vela (more safely with a shield equipped)

necklace of the harvest moon midnight wish??? (Friendly AoE: +8 health, +10 defenses for 15.0 sec per 3.0 sec, not tested yet but I doubt it works)

necklace of the harvest moon yearly reap -5% Recovery Time for 6.0 sec on crit), hit vela with blunderbuss

protective eothasian charm darkest before dawn (+5 health per 3.0 sec over 12 sec, damage reduced by -25% for 12 sec on near death), risky but good to prolong, you need to sleep once to recharge it though)

resounding call call to arms (Destroying a destructible grants tenacious 12.0 sec), not super easy to prolong but doable and definitely great to have

scordeo's edge adaptive (+2 Accuracy with all weapons for 30.0 sec on scoring Hit, stacks 10 times, easy to prolong as long lasting, stacks with blade cascade/highwayman)

scordeo's edge blade cascade (ignore recovery for 5.0 sec on scoring hit, use it on vela)

Scordeo's Edge Highwayman (20acc with ranged weapons)

scordeo's trophy opening barrage (unlimited stacking -5% recovery time), you can get very good recovery time just with this one before getting scordeo's edge

serpent crown serpent's strike +10 Accuracy (maybe also -25% Recovery Time?) for 15s when critically hit

Slippers of the Assassin Boots Shadow Form (invisible on kill, trigger it killing barrels. Reported working (thanks Raven Darkholme) with double clicking slippers from player inventory too, but so far not working this way for Kaylon and me so it may be related to specific build/setup)
[EDIT] ok confirmed I managed to get it working after save/reload: on reload you look transparent but the Shadow Form is no more working until you double click the slippers from player inventory, then it is applied again but you need to prolong it from scratch in my experience so it may be a little tedious but working

The Maker's Own Power belt reforge the flesh 10hp/3sec -85% dmg, paralyze can be worked around (blade cascade on, trigger reforge and extend it, if you knocked yourself out you will stand up and won't be paralyzed, you may still need to switch weapon, save,  reload and switch weapon again to get rid of paralyze)

unstable soul essence bomb (+6 Health Restored per 6.0 sec for 12.0 sec)

wahai poraga at blades reach -20% Melee Damage Received for 2.0 sec on launching attack (hit vela)

weyc's wand attuned channel (after empowering an ability, gain +3 Power Level for 20 sec, confirmed)

Whispers from the Depths Grasping Mysteries: 30% chance on scoring Kill to gain Acute (+5 Intellect, +1 All Power Levels) for 8.0 sec
 

Edited June 22, 2021 by abot

[dgray62]

Thanks for the list, abot. But poor Vela! Saved as an infant, only to be used as target practice

[Kaylon]

Another must have buff is Bolting Strikes (15%spd & shock) from Lord Darryn's Voulge.

There's also Highwayman (20acc with ranged weapons) from Scordeo's Edge (stacks with Adaptive).

I confirm that Attuned Channel from Weyc's Wand works and is great.

Empowered Being (all lvl3 inspirations) from Least Unstable Coil works great, however if you're hit by afflictions your inspirations will degrade if you're not immune (that's the case for all inspirations buffs).

 

[abot]

6 hours ago, Kaylon said:

Another must have buff is Bolting Strikes (15%spd & shock) from Lord Darryn's Voulge.

There's also Highwayman (20acc with ranged weapons) from Scordeo's Edge (stacks with Adaptive).

I confirm that Attuned Channel from Weyc's Wand works and is great.

Empowered Being (all lvl3 inspirations) from Least Unstable Coil works great, however if you're hit by afflictions your inspirations will degrade if you're not immune (that's the case for all inspirations buffs).

 

thanks, list updated

[Raven Darkholme]

20 hours ago, abot said:

...

Note: a way to trigger watcher blooded state out of combat is using double necklace of fireballs on self, just pay attention when vela is moving around
...

Amra battle axe with Tempered Fury enchantment, Frenzy without deflection penalty, 25% chance on kill (trigger with barrels?, maybe blight from magran's favor belt)

...

death's maw death runes? (within 5m of a killed enemy grants -15% incoming damage for 10 sec) not tested yet, may be not so easy to prolong

...

least unstable coil (great but I think can be overridden by overlapping spells)

...

 

protective eothasian charm darkest before dawn (+5 health per 3.0 sec over 12 sec, damage reduced by -25% for 12 sec on near death), risky but good to prolong, you need to sleep once to recharge it though)

...

 

Slippers of the Assassin Boots Shadow Form (invisible on kill, trigger it killing barrels?)

...

The Maker's Own Power belt reforge the flesh 10hp/3sec -85% dmg, paralyze can be worked around (blade cascade on, trigger reforge and extend it, if you knocked yourself out you will stand up and won't be paralyzed, otherwise save/reload and you good)

 

 

If you've already been to deck of many things Missile Gloves are even better than Necklace of fireball, no worries about Aoe hitting vela and more dmg per cast, pretty sure both can be stolen for free (other one in crookspur) if your mechanics is high enough and you have slippers (only item you have to buy from deck) and once you have 2 you can "recharge" them for free in stash.

...

Amra does trigger on barrels (or ranger pet) no need for fire blight)

...

Death's runes can't be extended, it's a temporary aura ON the corpses, similar to cipher effects on foe.

...

As Kaylon stated you only need immunity from afflictions for least unstable coil, then it won't be overwritten unless you use it again (can easily be prevented by unequipping saving and reloading, which will change the name of the buff but will weaken some effects of the inspirations like robust)

...

Darkest before dawn is not risky at all unless you have 3 injuries, it will just knock you out if you overdo self dmg (but you can do it real controlled with missile gloves), just keep in mind its not wise to get dmg reduction before you have your deltros extended)

...

At least on several different chars I tested you can also get shadow form by double click equipping slippers from inventory, weirdly enough Kaylon said it doesn't work for him, so idk if there is a hidden requirement which I happened to have on seevral chars I tested it with, otherwise barrels will do the trick.

...

For reforge the flesh you will get permanent recovery even if you got rid of paralyze, so you also have to weapon switch save reload and weapon switch again to get rid of that.

Keep in mind unless you are a black jack or barbarian (sof extended bloodlust) you won't ever be able to weapon switch in combat only switch save reload switch will make recovery possible, also keep in mind getting arcane dampened while having reforge means you might as well be dead even tho the enemies will most likely not be able to kill you, but you won't be able to do anything and ofc can't save and reload unless you wanna do the old cheese obsidians tcs system and just load another game.

[Kaylon]

I found another speed buff (it stacks with Tempered Fury and Bolting Strikes) - Spirit Siphon (15% action speed) from Less/Least Unstable Coil.

[abot]

22 hours ago, Raven Darkholme said:

If you've already been to deck of many things Missile Gloves are even better than Necklace of fireball, no worries about Aoe hitting vela and more dmg per cast, pretty sure both can be stolen for free (other one in crookspur) if your mechanics is high enough and you have slippers (only item you have to buy from deck) and once you have 2 you can "recharge" them for free in stash.

...

Amra does trigger on barrels (or ranger pet) no need for fire blight)

...

Death's runes can't be extended, it's a temporary aura ON the corpses, similar to cipher effects on foe.

...

As Kaylon stated you only need immunity from afflictions for least unstable coil, then it won't be overwritten unless you use it again (can easily be prevented by unequipping saving and reloading, which will change the name of the buff but will weaken some effects of the inspirations like robust)

...

Darkest before dawn is not risky at all unless you have 3 injuries, it will just knock you out if you overdo self dmg (but you can do it real controlled with missile gloves), just keep in mind its not wise to get dmg reduction before you have your deltros extended)

...

At least on several different chars I tested you can also get shadow form by double click equipping slippers from inventory, weirdly enough Kaylon said it doesn't work for him, so idk if there is a hidden requirement which I happened to have on seevral chars I tested it with, otherwise barrels will do the trick.

...

For reforge the flesh you will get permanent recovery even if you got rid of paralyze, so you also have to weapon switch save reload and weapon switch again to get rid of that.

Keep in mind unless you are a black jack or barbarian (sof extended bloodlust) you won't ever be able to weapon switch in combat only switch save reload switch will make recovery possible, also keep in mind getting arcane dampened while having reforge means you might as well be dead even tho the enemies will most likely not be able to kill you, but you won't be able to do anything and ofc can't save and reload unless you wanna do the old cheese obsidians tcs system and just load another game.

Thanks, list updated!
> Darkest before dawn is not risky at all unless you have 3 injuries, it will just knock you out if you overdo self dmg
I mean risky as it may give you an unwanted injury, not just as being able to kill you, usually I don't feel the need to have one injury (with pros and cons) until battles where it is convenient to have some injury fueled item (e.g. Dorudugan battle + cape to heal with fire damage) and I have the item available
About waiting to apply healing/defense buffs to player before getting maximized Deltro's lash, I guess it may depend on play style/build, if your build makes early fights possible/has less easy ways to get electric self-damage you may prefer to get less final electric damage but more healing/defense sooner
>For reforge the flesh you will get permanent recovery...
Wow, lots of inconveniences for this. Personally I feel this one is a little too much trouble/never used it, also from my point of view not reaching full 100% damage resistance while still powerful enough to have chances to finish the ultimate challenge in time makes me feel a little less cheesy
 

Edited June 10, 2021 by abot

[Raven Darkholme]

26 minutes ago, abot said:

Thanks, list updated!
> Darkest before dawn is not risky at all unless you have 3 injuries, it will just knock you out if you overdo self dmg
I mean risky as it may give you an unwanted injury, not just as being able to kill you, usually I don't feel the need to have one injury (with pros and cons) until battles where it is convenient to have some injury fueled item (e.g. Dorudugan battle + cape to heal with fire damage) and I have the item available
About waiting to apply healing/defense buffs to player before getting maximized Deltro's lash, I guess it may depend on play style/build, if your build makes early fights possible/has less easy ways to get electric self-damage you may prefer to get less final electric damage but more healing/defense sooner
>For reforge the flesh you will get permanent recovery...
Wow, lots of inconveniences for this. Personally I feel this one is a little too much trouble/never used it, also from my point of view not reaching full 100% damage resistance while still powerful enough to have chances to finish the ultimate challenge in time makes me feel a little less cheesy
 

Most times you can just use an adra potion unless you don't have one ofc, I usually can craft 7+ because there is no way you ever use all of them.

...

Well yes, completely depends on your strat for the run, in my last run I didn't fight until level 17 and you can even not fight until 19 in the very least, most likely even 20 with slippers.

...

Ye reforge is a two edged sword, it's kinda fun for a non TCS run, but for Ultimate its kinda risky, unless you have like over 200 will I guess and can't be dampened. (low affliction duration will not help all it takes is 0.0001 sec of being dampened)

[abot]

I recently realized that Each Kill Fed His Fury chant (+5 might, constitution, resolve) stacks with all inspirations and can be prolonged out of combat, worth investing a couple respecs for it
Upgrade to best drugs order so far for stacking after prolong/save/reload minimizing overlapping/canceling each other:
1 Coral Snuff    (+10% Action Speed, +5 Deflection, +5 Reflex for 180 sec) 
2 Mouth Char (-5% Damage taken, +15% Damage with weapons for 180 sec)
3 Ripple Sponge (+3 Perception, Resolve, and Intellect for 180 sec)
4 Svef (+3 Perception, -25% Hostile effect duration, Resistance to Intellect, Perception, and Resolve afflictions for 180 sec)
5 Whiteleaf (Concentration, +10 Will, +1 Health restored per 3 sec for 180 sec)
6 Taru Turu Chew (+3 Constitution, Might, and Dexterity for 180 sec)
7 Deadeye (+5 Accuracy, 15% chance to Interrupt on scoring Hit for 180 sec)

The more I find this kind of things, the more I believe they are not like this by chance...

Edited July 16, 2021 by abot

[Raven Darkholme]

16 hours ago, abot said:

I recently realized that Each Kill Fed His Fury chant (+5 might, constitution, resolve) stacks with all inspirations and can be prolonged out of combat, worth investing a couple respecs for it
Upgrade to best drugs order so far for stacking after prolong/save/reload minimizing overlapping/canceling each other:
1 Coral Snuff    (+10% Action Speed, +5 Deflection, +5 Reflex for 180 sec) 
2 Mouth Char (-5% Damage taken, +15% Damage with weapons for 180 sec)
3 Ripple Sponge (+3 Perception, Resolve, and Intellect for 180 sec)
4 Svef (+3 Perception, -25% Hostile effect duration, Resistance to Intellect, Perception, and Resolve afflictions for 180 sec)
5 Whiteleaf (Concentration, +10 Will, +1 Health restored per 3 sec for 180 sec)
6 Taru Turu Chew (+3 Constitution, Might, and Dexterity for 180 sec)
7 Deadeye (+5 Accuracy, 15% chance to Interrupt on scoring Hit for 180 sec)

The more I find this kind of things, the more I believe they are not like this by chance...

Very interesting i used to be able to stack each kill fed, but then when I did it somewhat recently all of a sudden it didn't stack anymore (however my inspirations were mostly from items).

 

The perfect drug order is definitely not by chance in the sense that it will most likely work 100% of the time.

It's just never been intended by the devs that drugs stack.

[abot]

In my tests drugs stack without canceling each other only in that order, else you have to look for another eat/save/load eat another not canceling drug combination. This is not by chance IMO, it is like the book puzzles LOL. I doubt that spamming save/load/try a new drug combination would be accepted in a ultimate run, but probably eating the proper not conflicting drug only at the start of the session would, that's why I think the proper order is important
Each Kill Fed His Fury is working for me currently with all inspirations from the Least Unstable Coil, it keeps working after not having the chant any more .
Dunno if order may make a difference, but I got the inspirations from the coil first, then tried the chant

[EDIT] oh, also Entropy Shield from Chromoprismatic Quarterstaff (1% x 5 damage reduction + metaphysic, about 11% total with 13 metaphysic) can be prolonged/works but only as long as you have the staff in a weapon slot (does not need to be the active one), if you remove the staff from player slots it needs triggering/prolonging again, good mostly for builds able to use the staff from martial abilities or as a +1 power level staff
[EDIT2] Oh, I read your post that entropy shield resets when it so meh, probably not worth the hassle

Edited July 17, 2021 by abot

[Raven Darkholme]

4 hours ago, abot said:

In my tests drugs stack without canceling each other only in that order, else you have to look for another eat/save/load eat another not canceling drug combination. This is not by chance IMO, it is like the book puzzles LOL. I doubt that spamming save/load/try a new drug combination would be accepted in a ultimate run, but probably eating the proper not conflicting drug only at the start of the session would, that's why I think the proper order is important
Each Kill Fed His Fury is working for me currently with all inspirations from the Least Unstable Coil, it keeps working after not having the chant any more .
Dunno if order may make a difference, but I got the inspirations from the coil first, then tried the chant

[EDIT] oh, also Entropy Shield from Chromoprismatic Quarterstaff (1% x 5 damage reduction + metaphysic, about 11% total with 13 metaphysic) can be prolonged/works but only as long as you have the staff in a weapon slot (does not need to be the active one), if you remove the staff from player slots it needs triggering/prolonging again, good mostly for builds able to use the staff from martial abilities or as a +1 power level staff
[EDIT2] Oh, I read your post that entropy shield resets when it so meh, probably not worth the hassle

No, you can make almost any order work I tried that extensively.

If you get stuck on a specific drug just take literally any other drug sof a couple times save and reload and go back to the drug that didn't work.

This is not a puzzle its one of many  bugs, lol.

 

The chromoprismatic buffs can be kept without having the staff equipped, as with pretty much any item related buff in this game the name of the buff changes to the name of the item if you take it off, quicksave and reload.

This will take off any metaphysics scaling however, so the buff will be pretty small.

[abot]

I'm not saying you can't use a different order and make all drugs effects work with enough tries, I'm saying that the specific order is going to minimize the number of drugs eaten (exactly ONE per type of drug) and the number of save/reload cycles needed for it to work (ONE cycle per drug), and I still think this is not by chance and that this information is useful for a real ultimate run when not spamming save/reload might be required.

[Raven Darkholme]

2 hours ago, abot said:

I'm not saying you can't use a different order and make all drugs effects work with enough tries, I'm saying that the specific order is going to minimize the number of drugs eaten (exactly ONE per type of drug) and the number of save/reload cycles needed for it to work (ONE cycle per drug), and I still think this is not by chance and that this information is useful for a real ultimate run when not spamming save/reload might be required.

Oh yeah the info is very useful.

[dgray62]

Does the order really matter that much, so long as you save and reload between each drug? I got them all to stack in a recent game using a somewhat different order, namely (1) Coral Snuff, (2) Ripple Sponge, (3) Svef, (4) Taru Turu Chew, (5) Whiteleaf, (6) Mouth Char and (7) Dead Eye.

[Raven Darkholme]

20 minutes ago, dgray62 said:

Does the order really matter that much, so long as you save and reload between each drug? I got them all to stack in a recent game using a somewhat different order, namely (1) Coral Snuff, (2) Ripple Sponge, (3) Svef, (4) Taru Turu Chew, (5) Whiteleaf, (6) Mouth Char and (7) Dead Eye.

I have noticed several times that deadeye breaks the stacking, so maybe most orders with deadeye at the end are fine?

[thelee]

On 7/16/2021 at 10:12 AM, abot said:

I recently realized that Each Kill Fed His Fury chant (+5 might, constitution, resolve) stacks with all inspirations

wow if this is consistent, this significantly boosts the utility of that chant

[Boeroer]

It is I guess because it's not giving inspirations but direct attribute buffs. Only the upgrade does this. The basic invocation gives the fitting inspirations. I guess it's an oversight. 

[abot]

about the drug stacking order: it could be there is more than one possible order minimizing the number of drugs you have to try, deadeye is the one drug probably conflicting with anything else so keeping it last seems to make sense, maybe there are other combinations working, heck now I am not even sure it can't be something like the galawain challenge giving different beasts powers according to  a random initial game seed

Each Kill Fed His Fury chant is great also because it is very easy to prolong, you can use it out of combat and it has long starting duration

Edited July 20, 2021 by abot

[Kaylon]

On 7/16/2021 at 8:12 PM, abot said:

I recently realized that Each Kill Fed His Fury chant (+5 might, constitution, resolve) stacks with all inspirations and can be prolonged out of combat, worth investing a couple respecs for it

You can't do the same with Set to Their Purpose... ?

[abot]

5 minutes ago, Kaylon said:

You can't do the same with Set to Their Purpose... ?

IIRC when I tried those were standard not stacking inspirations. Unless they degrade after save/load but I don't think so. It could be the other chant is special as they had to implement it differently to allow the mechanic of prolonging it by kills during fight, and didn't bother/forgot to fix it