The Ultimate discussion thread Pt 2

[Raven Darkholme]

52 minutes ago, fuzelogic said:

Consider it a probe to see if it was common knowlege maybe?

Dude, i have asked nothing from you and have give you something, im a helpfull person, but that i cant share for respect to the rest of players untill competition is over.

 

See, i cant play much and id like to get the badge for my effort, dont care about beeing world first and dont even care about having my characters name in a metal panel, in fact, in the rare event that i could be among the 12 first ones id ask Obsidian to have the name of that player i think has been more helpfull, althougth not very lucky yet, because i feel he is the one who deserves it the most.

I dont mind helping other players with small tricks here and there but that you must understand that can not be shared yet.

 

A probe to see if what was common knowledge? No one even knows what you're talking about.

I respect to not share something I just think it's weird to march on a forum, where as far as I can tell you have not contributed but have used knowledge other people shared to get where you are, and announce you ahve found something gamebreaking but can't share it anyway.

What's the motivation of even posting that? How would you "probe" if it was common knowledge by not actually posting what you found out?

For all you know it IS common knowledge, because that is all your empty post actually availed you.

You could just read the entire thread, but your posting "hey I found smth" will not show anyone what you found.

[Wotcha]

Also, coming to the forum, one doesn't need to ASK for very much at all.  There's a lot out there that's been given away for free.  That's how sharing works.

I haven't had much unique to contribute- the only thing I believe I have independently discovered is the ability to instant-cast cast-time spells in turn-based mode in some circumstances by hovering the cursor over the Delay Turn button but not clicking it.  I don't know if that's even of any use for any Ultimate attempts, but I put it out there anyway.  Hell, I don't even know if it's enough of an exploit to get disqualified over, because it kind of feels like it.

I, too, question Fuze's motivation in trying to dangle "discoveries" in the thread.  It doesn't seem like anything but a cry for attention.  It seems to be working, after a fashion, but it's not exactly positive attention.

[wildeyn00700]

5 hours ago, Decadency said:

Btw ) I've got a funny question. Do you need to kill the Oracle of Wael 2 times?

I have an exact answer for you, Dec, because that first fight would have been totally impossible for my build, so I found a way out of it.  Assuming you go to the left first, the laboratories I think it is called, where the memory hoarder is (I haven't tried the other way first yet), then if you DONT do anything with the brainwashed people after killing the Hoarder, and then when the Oracle talks to you in the In-Between, you say that you aren't a wizard and from there don't fight him, you don't need to do that fight then.  Which is great, because, in my game, in that fight, Vela somehow literally charged into battle and actually attacked the Oracle or one of the adds before getting terrified, and the fight would have been impossible.

Edited July 17, 2019 by wildeyn00700

[wildeyn00700]

5 hours ago, Kaylon said:

With the SCmonk  you need first to reach lv13 without combat. At lvl13 you get unlimited Dichotomous Soul which are stronger than the Substantial Phantom (they also duplicates your items) and IMO can carry you until lvl19 when you get Whispers of the Wind. From there most of the fights can be done just by spamming WotW (Voidwheel/Keeper of the Flame can be used to generate wounds,  while health on kill/regen items will heal you back) - using WotW won't degrade your weapons and being invisible most of the time means you won't be hit very often either. 

Of course the monk is less cheesy and has probably a harder time keeping Vela alive (he needs scrolls), but I think it's still a solid choice unless I'm missing something...

Are you suggesting a single-class monk?  I don't know their skill tree and I'm too lazy to look it up at the moment   If you are suggesting a monk with no priest multi-class, I would ask if you have really tried the Hylea (Vela) challenge for a lot of combats.  She's really hard to keep alive.  I have a ton of respect for you, and in print it is hard to convey tone; you may have an excellent grasp of what it is like to escort Vela, but I have to ask if you have tried it much, so I understand where you are coming from.  Are you thinking (and you may even be correct - I don't have good experience with the monk end) that a Monk can kick ass so fast that Vela gets protected that way?  If that actually is possible, that would be really cool.  My way of doing Ultimate is really slow, dinking away with summons exclusively.  It would be awesome to have a character with such strong offense that you could pretty much use 1 withdraw scroll on Vela in a fight and win or distract all of the enemies.

People may not realize, by the way, for those who are thinking of non-priest builds, you can get a LOT of extra withdraw scrolls by sinking merchant ships, and you can win those fights 100% of the time with a Dhow and double-bronzers (plus after doing a few battles, your cannoneers and other crew get even better).  As far as I've seen, every merchant ship has 1-2 withdraw scrolls in their loot.

[Waski]

51 minutes ago, wildeyn00700 said:

Are you thinking (and you may even be correct - I don't have good experience with the monk end) that a Monk can kick ass so fast that Vela gets protected that way? 

Yes. I won't spam with  links but SC monk it's a beast .

 

Edited July 17, 2019 by Waski

[wildeyn00700]

36 minutes ago, Waski said:

Yes. I won't spam with  links but SC monk it's a beast .

 

It would certainly be a lot of fun to straight-up beat up the tough enemies in Ultimate without a lot of screwing around trying to activate cheese first.  (Or, in my case, without taking forever).  Would be great to see Kaylon do it, or maybe I'll try it out myself (or whoever else may try it and let us know)

Abydon's challenge would make using the Voidwheel and Keeper of Flame weapons somewhat questionable, but that may not be an absolute problem with either enough money, fast enough kills, or perhaps not needing to use them all that much.

I have a question, also: can you control the monk duplicates?   One possibly interesting thing is that maybe there is a better class than chanter to go with ranger for a different way to do my type of strategy.  Ranger probably sounds weak to you guys, but in Ultimate, that boar is amazing.  Of course, you'd lose what may be the whole point of a monk, which are its tier 8 and 9 abilities.  A monk needs resonant touch to beat the mega-ooze, is that right?  Although, if you can control the monk duplicates, you could beat the mega-ooze, potentially, the same way I beat him with a ranger/chanter.

Edited July 17, 2019 by wildeyn00700

[wildeyn00700]

1 hour ago, Wotcha said:

Also, coming to the forum, one doesn't need to ASK for very much at all.  There's a lot out there that's been given away for free.  That's how sharing works.

I haven't had much unique to contribute- the only thing I believe I have independently discovered is the ability to instant-cast cast-time spells in turn-based mode in some circumstances by hovering the cursor over the Delay Turn button but not clicking it.  I don't know if that's even of any use for any Ultimate attempts, but I put it out there anyway.  Hell, I don't even know if it's enough of an exploit to get disqualified over, because it kind of feels like it.

I, too, question Fuze's motivation in trying to dangle "discoveries" in the thread.  It doesn't seem like anything but a cry for attention.  It seems to be working, after a fashion, but it's not exactly positive attention.

By the way, Wotcha, I've used your discovery a bit.  Once in awhile, such as at the start of combat against the Dragonslayer group in SSS, or in an emergency during a tough combat, it is really great to have as an option.

[Waski]

41 minutes ago, wildeyn00700 said:

 

I have a question, also: can you control the monk duplicates?   One possibly interesting thing is that maybe there is a better class than chanter to go with ranger for a different way to do my type of strategy.  Ranger probably sounds weak to you guys, but in Ultimate, that boar is amazing.  Of course, you'd lose what may be the whole point of a monk, which are its tier 8 and 9 abilities.  A monk needs resonant touch to beat the mega-ooze, is that right?

No, you can't controle them. Monk don't need resonant touch to beat ooze, only ajamuut stalking cloak. But he needs it for Dorudugan.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Waski

[Decadency]

8 hours ago, wildeyn00700 said:

I have an exact answer for you, Dec, because that first fight would have been totally impossible for my build, so I found a way out of it.  Assuming you go to the left first, the laboratories I think it is called, where the memory hoarder is (I haven't tried the other way first yet), then if you DONT do anything with the brainwashed people after killing the Hoarder, and then when the Oracle talks to you in the In-Between, you say that you aren't a wizard and from there don't fight him, you don't need to do that fight then.  Which is great, because, in my game, in that fight, Vela somehow literally charged into battle and actually attacked the Oracle or one of the adds before getting terrified, and the fight would have been impossible.

Yeah I know that you can avoid it. I mean maybe it counts as a kill and you don't need to go further in the DLC?)

[wildeyn00700]

2 hours ago, Decadency said:

Yeah I know that you can avoid it. I mean maybe it counts as a kill and you don't need to go further in the DLC?)

ah, that I don't know.  I'd guess not, but I agree that is possible. 

[wildeyn00700]

9 hours ago, Waski said:

No, you can't controle them. Monk don't need resonant touch to beat ooze, only ajamuut stalking cloak. But he needs it for Dorudugan.

But you need WotW, which means single-class.  I was just musing about whether a multi-class of monk would do much, and it looks like it won't. 

I watched the video of a monk beating the ooze, so now I understand.  Vela and Abydon's would seriously complicate things, although possibly neither would be an absolute block.  I can see that it all comes down to beating the original ooze. 

For Vela, you'd have to initiate combat, get symbioted, get it off yourself and kill the little oozes (or kill them a bit later), get Vela terrified, and then move the ooze far away from her, so that Vela doesn't get hit with symbiote.  If you tank the ooze anywhere near Vela, she'll get hit with Symbiote for certain.  That might be doable.  It is somewhat possible that the ooze would hit Vela immediately with symbiote, unless there is a way to keep her back (actually there is a 1-rest Watcher ability that stuns her that all classes can use, so that would deal with that).

Then it just comes down to making sure you can tank the main ooze before your armor breaks (or that you can tank naked somehow).

For Dorudugan, the only way for a monk to beat him with Vela, as far as I can imagine with my limited knowledge, is to initiate combat with a trap, from stealth, and then sneak in and hit him True Love's Kiss (or else if WotW works, just use that).  Then make a summon and switch weapons and run back to the bottom right before Vela follows and gets terrified (perhaps by figuring out another way to stop her, or maybe by stunning her and going back into stealth just before Dorudugan hits your trap).  Or, and this would be funny, you could do turn-based, which keeps Vela still, and do the same method, and hit "next turn" for several hours...

I hate the documentation in this game.  True Love's Kiss (which requires stealth) doesn't work from an invisibility potion, but the same exact wording and documentation, assuming it wasn't changed, seems to work with WotW and the Stalking Cloak.  "Invisibility" from WotW apparently counts as stealth for the cloak?  I wonder if it counts for True Love's Kiss from the dagger sold in the metalworks.

Edited July 18, 2019 by wildeyn00700

[fuzelogic]

13 hours ago, Raven Darkholme said:

A probe to see if what was common knowledge? No one even knows what you're talking about.

I respect to not share something I just think it's weird to march on a forum, where as far as I can tell you have not contributed but have used knowledge other people shared to get where you are, and announce you ahve found something gamebreaking but can't share it anyway.

What's the motivation of even posting that? How would you "probe" if it was common knowledge by not actually posting what you found out?

For all you know it IS common knowledge, because that is all your empty post actually availed you.

You could just read the entire thread, but your posting "hey I found smth" will not show anyone what you found.

You have asked by PM and i have been nice with you and given something else to keep you going instead, as proof of good will, yet it seems its not enough because your epennis is very big and you think you deserve more.

 

What knowledge exactly have i taken from this forums or you? And if i did, that i did NOT, then it would not be as "free" as you say it is when you demand something in exchange.

 

This stops rigth here, rigth now, my fault.

Edited July 18, 2019 by fuzelogic

[Raven Darkholme]

Is it weird that I didn't understand a word of that post?

[Tenray]

First of all hello to everyone, I am new to the forums and I am also working on an Ultimate-Run. I am from Germany, 27 years old, I am a software dev but currently on nice vacation and so I got some spare time to invest into the Ultimate.

Unfortunatelly I RIPed on Nemnok and only had to beat Belranga, Sigilmaster and then Ukaizo ... Too bad. Everything was recorded aswell. But I'll try again, ofc. The order might be strange to you but on my next run I planned on doing a different route anyways. 

Big surprise! I am using SoP for the Brilliant aswell to sustain ressources. Priest / Wizard as Skaen/Bloodmage. Works like a charm on most encounters, but sometimes Arcane Dampener on certain encounters can be suuuuper dangerous. I like to play at a fast pace, that's why I don't like to play on slow combat speed all the time. However this was probably the reason I died ... I take it easy at least

As already mentioned I only had to do 4 more bosses and my real time of the run was something around 8 hours, which can be still cut by alot ... (Brilliant proccing sometimes takes 20-30 mins ... just luck, it's annoying). In game time was totally fine, I still had 18 days left to do Nemnok-> Belranga -> Sigil -> Ukaizo.

 

1 hour ago, Raven Darkholme said:

Is it weird that I didn't understand a word of that post?

It is not weird. I do understand very little aswell ...

His argumentation doesn't even make sense at all. The moment you ever looked something up in the wiki, which is mostly written by players even tho it says offcial, you already get information for "free". How do I know the Wiki is written by players? Well simply because I also made some contribution there. Same applies to the forums. But that is something fuze does not understand.

I actually have absolutely no problem if he found something totally game-breaking and does not want to share it. I don't care, I really don't. But stop bragging with it. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by Tenray

[Decadency]

Oh btw I wanted to show (but forgot cause they moved the topic) that Belranga fight where she kills herself over my Arcane Reflection (I think potions would also work). So no need of Scordeo's Edge and Wall of Draining here.

Also there's a VERY FUNNY momment with Nemnok which almost killed me at 50:10 xD (forgot to turn off auto attack)

 

Edited July 18, 2019 by Decadency

[Tenray]

22 minutes ago, Decadency said:

Oh btw I wanted to show (but forgot cause they moved the topic) that Belranga fight where she kills herself over my Arcane Reflection (I think potions would also work). So no need of Scordeo's Edge and Wall of Draining here.

Also there's a VERY FUNNY momment with Nemnok which almost killed me at 50:10 xD (forgot to turn off auto attack)

 

I achieved the same/similar result without arcane reflection. I kinda had that feeling that her poison attacks are AoE (maybe from the little spider aswell are Aoe too ? ) and she keeps hitting herself if you stand close to her. It deals a ton of damage because her defenses drop extremely low after some time. I just rewatched my older run and Belranga killed herself and I had no Arcane Reflection. In fact, I think you can literally kill her by standing in front of her with only BDD and SoT spamming while having Brilliant.

 

In one of my runs I died directly after the conversation with "little" Nemnok, because he attacks you again and I was on 1 hp  >.<

Easy solution: Wait a couple of seconds to regen some health while you are in the conversation and then proceed.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Tenray

[Decadency]

17 minutes ago, Tenray said:

I achieved the same/similar result without arcane reflection. I kinda had that feeling that her poison attacks are AoE (maybe from the little spider aswell are Aoe too ? ) and she keeps hitting herself if you stand close to her. It deals a ton of damage because her defenses drop extremely low after some time. I just rewatched my older run and Belranga killed herself and I had no Arcane Reflection. In fact, I think you can literally kill her by standing in front of her with only BDD and SoT spamming while having Brilliant.

 

In one of my runs I died directly after the conversation with "little" Nemnok, because he attacks you again and I was on 1 hp  >.<

Easy solution: Wait a couple of seconds to regen some health while you are in the conversation and then proceed.

Oh... Didn't think about that. Any priest multiclass can kill her with level 16 in this case.

[Decadency]

19 minutes ago, Tenray said:

In one of my runs I died directly after the conversation with "little" Nemnok, because he attacks you again and I was on 1 hp  >.<

Easy solution: Wait a couple of seconds to regen some health while you are in the conversation and then proceed.

You don't need to kill "little" Nemnok. I took him as a pet.

[Tenray]

3 minutes ago, Decadency said:

You don't need to kill "little" Nemnok. I took him as a pet.

Just watched your video ... you get the Ultimate achievement indeed ... oh wow that is so sad ... for me. But thanks alot! =D

[Decadency]

3 minutes ago, Tenray said:

Just watched your video ... you get the Ultimate achievement indeed ... oh wow that is so sad ... for me. But thanks alot! =D

NEMNOK NEMNOK NEMNOK

[Kaylon]

2 hours ago, Decadency said:

Oh btw I wanted to show (but forgot cause they moved the topic) that Belranga fight where she kills herself over my Arcane Reflection (I think potions would also work). So no need of Scordeo's Edge and Wall of Draining here.

Arcane Reflection does nothing here. If you lower Belranga's defenses enough and stay in melee range she will be killed eventually by the AoE of her little spiders (combusting wounds will speed things up)...

[Decadency]

26 minutes ago, Kaylon said:

Arcane Reflection does nothing here. If you lower Belranga's defenses enough and stay in melee range she will be killed eventually by the AoE of her little spiders (combusting wounds will speed things up)...

Yeah I tested this with 16 lvl char without anything but cloak and thought it was reflection 

[Decadency]

Hey guys! I want to share with you something:

 

[Raven Darkholme]

11 minutes ago, Decadency said:

Hey guys! I want to share with you something:

 

Awesome, you really deserve it man.

[Tenray]

@Decadency

Well done, Sir! I hope I can make it soon aswell.