[MECHANICS] Various Testing

[Elric Galad]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

 I always wondered how I get THAT many crits even with big AoE size.  

No wonder it's so bonkers with Avenging Storm and Resonant Touch. 

Ok,case closed.

On Crit it will be.

[NotDumbEnough]

The fire traps in the fire naga temple do not disappear after they are triggered and can be triggered repeatedly. If you send Ishiza to fly over the traps and bait the enemy into them, they will kill themselves upon the traps.

[Boeroer]

I reported this behavior (I mean getting injured by fire traps although one is immune to fire dmg) rel. early after release because I thought that it's not very logical and contradicts player expectations.

In my case I had somebody with an injury + Rekvu's Scorched Cloak (=immune to fire dmg, even get healed by 20% of it) - but Flame Nagas use the same "Bloodfire" mechanic. They even have lower burn AR so that the healing is higher when they get hit by burn dmg. Therefore it obviously makes no sense that burn-based injuries get applied.

Unfortunately the devs had more important stuff to fix it seems.

[NotDumbEnough]

Not too sure how Minoletta's Missile Salvo works, but I counted 23 hits with 34 intellect. Might be useful as a reference.

[NotDumbEnough]

Fun fact: you can actually return the weapon to Yseyr as you promised. You get no reward for doing so, but he also does not attack you if you choose to hold on to it.

 

Edited May 6, 2022 by NotDumbEnough

[hansvedic]

Fun Find: Wild Growth works with the Wizard Tentacle summons (Maura's Writhing Tentacle & Maura's Grasping Tentacle).

This fact makes me want to run a Sorcerer now... XD

EDIT: Or maybe run a universalist with a Wizard and a Chanter companion... Wild Growth all the summons!

Edited May 9, 2022 by hansvedic

[thelee]

On 5/5/2022 at 7:36 PM, NotDumbEnough said:

Not too sure how Minoletta's Missile Salvo works, but I counted 23 hits with 34 intellect. Might be useful as a reference.

i'm guessing that this, along with meteor swarm, rain of holy fire, and magran's might, trigger a new projectile ever X seconds for its duration. based on what you write, it suggests that minoletta's launches one new missile per 1/7 a second.

 

i mostly thought about these effects as having a fixed # of projectiles, but i guess these effects having a durational component means that empowering/PL scaling really boosts them compared to "normal" direct damage, and even compared to DoTs (which don't benefit from increased PEN).

[NotDumbEnough]

29 minutes ago, thelee said:

i'm guessing that this, along with meteor swarm, rain of holy fire, and magran's might, trigger a new projectile ever X seconds for its duration. based on what you write, it suggests that minoletta's launches one new missile per 1/7 a second.

 

i mostly thought about these effects as having a fixed # of projectiles, but i guess these effects having a durational component means that empowering/PL scaling really boosts them compared to "normal" direct damage, and even compared to DoTs (which don't benefit from increased PEN).

Note that PL does NOT affect hazard durations such as Paladin's self-immolate abilities (but it does apply to the self damage, just not the pulses), Slicken, Returning Storm, etc. Missile Salvo also obeys this rule. Beam durations are completely fixed and are not affected by either intellect or PL.

[thelee]

5 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

Note that PL does NOT affect hazard durations such as Paladin's self-immolate abilities (but it does apply to the self damage, just not the pulses), Slicken, Returning Storm, etc. Missile Salvo also obeys this rule. Beam durations are completely fixed and are not affected by either intellect or PL.

ah interesting. by "hazard duration" here you mean abilities where the duration is listed outside the effects block at the bottom, if that makes sense?  mostly as clarification, because in my mind hazard only refers to very specific things (wall of thorns, seals) which get treated very oddly by the game.

[NotDumbEnough]

By hazard I'm referring to any ability that attempts an attack roll every X seconds within an AoE, or in the case of Meteor Shower, Storm of Holy Fire, Missile Salvo etc. initiate an AoE attack within that AoE. So for things like Venombloom or Chill Fog the AoE duration does not scale with PL at all.

As for wall abilities, I believe their wall duration also does not scale at all. Not with intellect or PL.

[thelee]

14 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

By hazard I'm referring to any ability that attempts an attack roll every X seconds within an AoE, or in the case of Meteor Shower, Storm of Holy Fire, Missile Salvo etc. initiate an AoE attack within that AoE. So for things like Venombloom or Chill Fog the AoE duration does not scale with PL at all.

As for wall abilities, I believe their wall duration also does not scale at all. Not with intellect or PL.

Cué? You're saying effects like chill fog and slicken don't get longer with intellect? That doesn't sound right.

[NotDumbEnough]

No, Chill Fog and Slicken AoE durations scale with intellect but NOT PL. Same goes for Venombloom, Symbol of X, Missile Salvo, Returning Storm, Paladin immolation abilities, etc. All abilities that mark out a circular area where something interesting happens over a duration. I guess you can't call Circle of Protection a hazard ability but I believe it follows these rules too. So drinking a Potion of Ascension will NOT change the AoE duration of these abilities (though it obviously will change the duration of any buffs or debuffs you apply, such as Blinded from Chill Fog). 

Beam spells (e.g. Ray of Fire) and wall spells (e.g. Wall of Many Colors) do not scale their duration with either intellect or PL. Antipathetic Field lasts for 6 seconds, period. You can't modify that in any way.

[Elric Galad]

Confirmed. Circle of protection only scales its duration with INT, not PL (which means PL has zero effect).

[thelee]

4 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

No, Chill Fog and Slicken AoE durations scale with intellect but NOT PL. Same goes for Venombloom, Symbol of X, Missile Salvo, Returning Storm, Paladin immolation abilities, etc. All abilities that mark out a circular area where something interesting happens over a duration. I guess you can't call Circle of Protection a hazard ability but I believe it follows these rules too. So drinking a Potion of Ascension will NOT change the AoE duration of these abilities (though it obviously will change the duration of any buffs or debuffs you apply, such as Blinded from Chill Fog). 

Beam spells (e.g. Ray of Fire) and wall spells (e.g. Wall of Many Colors) do not scale their duration with either intellect or PL. Antipathetic Field lasts for 6 seconds, period. You can't modify that in any way.

aha! sorry i fudged together what you were saying about hazard spells vs beam spells.

the no PL scaling is news to me! i suspected something was up for a certain class of spells (i never seemed to get more lightning bolts on returning storm with level ups), but it's good to have this confirmed more broadly

[NotDumbEnough]

Does anyone know the recovery penalty for moving while in recovery? Rangers get Shot on the Run but I'm not sure how it compares with simply standing still while recovering.

 

I'm also not 100% sure if reloading progress is saved if you stop it and do something else. i.e. if you spend 3 seconds out of a 5 second reload actually reloading, then stop and cast a spell, do you now need to start over and reload for 5 seconds or just 2 seconds?

[thelee]

2 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

Does anyone know the recovery penalty for moving while in recovery? Rangers get Shot on the Run but I'm not sure how it compares with simply standing still while recovering.

 

I'm also not 100% sure if reloading progress is saved if you stop it and do something else. i.e. if you spend 3 seconds out of a 5 second reload actually reloading, then stop and cast a spell, do you now need to start over and reload for 5 seconds or just 2 seconds?

hoo boy, if your googlefu is good someone many years ago commented on it, and had a mod that removed the need for shot on the run. there's definitely a penalty, but sorry no specifics. i tried to find the thread but had no luck.

 

as for reloading progress - AFAICT the progress is saved,  but there's a minimum reload time. the character has to animate - that animation can be really sped up to try to match up with the "true" remaining time, but there's a hard minimum threshold that they can't be sped up beyond. so iirc you can indefinitely delay reload by moving your character as they're wrapping up their reload. (there's a gun where one if its enchantments that can eliminate recovery does nothing because of this minimum reload time)

 

 

edit: i found the original post. actually it was about pillars of eternity 1. there, the recovery penalty was +50%. no indiciation what the number is in deadfire. my best intuition based on the numbers involved is that the ranged recovery penalty in deadfire is +100%:

 1. combat is generally intuitively considered/targeted at half speed of poe1

 2. in poe1, the known penalty was +50% and the equivalent talent was -25%

 3. probably implies they 2x-ed the numbers, +100% penalty given that the ranger talent is now -50%

knowing what i know about how (in)consistently the designers tracked inversions, i would not be surprised if the net effect of shot on the run is that it completely eliminates the penalty (since -50% with inversions would cancel out +100% in penalties)

 

edit 2: in poe1, i think it was a matter that the recovery only slowed down while moving, whereas anecdotally in deadfire it feels like the moment i have a ranged character move, their recovery slows down and doesn't go back to normal speed until i do another shot.

Edited May 12, 2022 by thelee

[Kaylon]

2 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

Does anyone know the recovery penalty for moving while in recovery? Rangers get Shot on the Run but I'm not sure how it compares with simply standing still while recovering.

 

I'm also not 100% sure if reloading progress is saved if you stop it and do something else. i.e. if you spend 3 seconds out of a 5 second reload actually reloading, then stop and cast a spell, do you now need to start over and reload for 5 seconds or just 2 seconds?

Picking Shot on the run in Deadfire makes a huge difference if you move between shots. However I doubt it affects reloading (that's why we have Gunner) - for me reloading works only if you stand still.

[NotDumbEnough]

It seems that a general rule is that recovery penalties apply immediately while recovery bonuses only start applying after the current recovery has ended. Very obvious when a Streetfighter walks into Chill Fog or something. So I would not be surprised if yeah, movement penalty for recovery lasted for the remainder of the recovery. I'm not sure if that rule applies to reloading though -- perhaps I will try reloading before and after spamming Time Parasite and/or a Chanter sings Sure-Handed Ila. Not even sure if action speed bonuses follow that rule the same way as recovery time modifiers.

[thelee]

8 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

I'm not sure if that rule applies to reloading though -- perhaps I will try reloading before and after spamming Time Parasite and/or a Chanter sings Sure-Handed Ila. Not even sure if action speed bonuses follow that rule the same way as recovery time modifiers.

with recovery and reloading, plenty of play with a streetfighter taught me that it doesn't apply until the next reload as well. it was pretty obvious to fire a blunderbuss and get the recovery time buff, reload, fire again, and then reload again much much faster.

[NotDumbEnough]

The game's description for the Ascendant subclass is misleading and in fact understates their power. It states that your Soul Whip deals more damage while Ascended; this is not true. Instead, Ascended is a universal +20% damage bonus that applies to your spells as well, which is extremely powerful in conjunction with the +3 PL bonus.

[dgray62]

12 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

 Instead, Ascended is a universal +20% damage bonus that applies to your spells as well, which is extremely powerful in conjunction with the +3 PL bonus.

Wow, that's amazing. I never realized that the +20% bonus applied to spells as well. I thought it applied to melee only as the tooltip seems to indicate, which is of course ridiculous, since one generally just casts powers while ascended.

[thelee]

21 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

The game's description for the Ascendant subclass is misleading and in fact understates their power. It states that your Soul Whip deals more damage while Ascended; this is not true. Instead, Ascended is a universal +20% damage bonus that applies to your spells as well, which is extremely powerful in conjunction with the +3 PL bonus.

Wow. Is it just cipher spells or multi class casters also benefit?

[Elric Galad]

On 5/15/2022 at 9:13 AM, NotDumbEnough said:

The game's description for the Ascendant subclass is misleading and in fact understates their power. It states that your Soul Whip deals more damage while Ascended; this is not true. Instead, Ascended is a universal +20% damage bonus that applies to your spells as well, which is extremely powerful in conjunction with the +3 PL bonus.

It honnestly sounds like an oversight.

I'm strongly leaning toward restricting it to Weapon only in next BPM nerf package (as everyone believed till now). Anyway, the description and actual effect have to be aligned.

[Waski]

On 5/16/2022 at 6:39 AM, thelee said:

Wow. Is it just cipher spells or multi class casters also benefit?

All, just run a solo hierophant few months ago (bm/ascnd), suboptimal build draft abusing Arkemyr invis  rolftstomped 98% of encounters, tbh I got bored of it somwhere in BoW (I did FS, SSS and tested vs megabosses)

bonus points  for disintegration not breaking Call to Slumber lol

edit another quirk was casting screaming souls on skeletal wizards with spell reflct on, you won't get dmg but AoE will trigger

Edited May 17, 2022 by Waski

[dgray62]

@Waski, am I correct in assuming that you use Mental Binding so frequently because (1) it doesn't break your invisibility and (2) to immobilize foes to keep them in place to be drained? I never used that power much but I can see in your video that I undervalued it.