Best DPS: Wich Sabre Dual Wield can compare with Watcher Blade & Modwyr Dual wield? (Hit to Crit)

[helmino]

As the title says, i'm curious if any combination of Sabre (Zero experience on wich combination is the best) can out DPS Watcher Blade and Modwyr combination.

The sword's Lashes and Action Speed are all you want for DPS, and on a Hit to Crit Build i'm curios if any Sabre combination can stand to them.

Anyone experienced with this?

Thanks in advance!

[Boeroer]

Anything with Scordeo's Edge I guess. But depends on class as well. 

[helmino]

6 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Anything with Scordeo's Edge I guess. But depends on class as well. 

Rogue-Fighter, Scordeo With 10% enchant? Scordeo is so good to outclass the others and the 2 swords?

Edited May 23, 2019 by helmino

[Boeroer]

As I said it depends on your class. One example: if you can proc Blade Cascade while having Wall of Draining active (e.g. with a Spellblade) there's nothing else which does that much dps. Preferably single-wielded though, not dual wielded.

Rogue-Fighter might be well advised to use Modwyr + Hel Beckoning or Watcher's Blade (if he insists on using two swords).

[helmino]

14 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

As I said it depends on your class. One example: if you can proc Blade Cascade while having Wall of Draining active (e.g. with a Spellblade) there's nothing else which does that much dps. Preferably single-wielded though, not dual wielded.

Rogue-Fighter might be well advised to use Modwyr + Hel Beckoning or Watcher's Blade (if he insists on using two swords).

Thanks! So in a Rogue Fighter Scenario Swords are still better?

[Boeroer]

Depends on the enemy. But Modwyr is pretty good in general, yes.

[Elric Galad]

I think Scordeo's with Blade Cascade out DPS Mowdyr even without any further trick involved (Wall of Draining, Salvation of Times, Ooblit, High INT, High Attack speed).
1 attack out of 20 basically proc 7 attacks (5s / 0.7 saber attack delay), so it is roughly equivalent to 35% lash (yup, it's an approximation).
I think Scoredo is ahead due to Accuracy bonus + this.

The problem is 5% is fairly unreliable, so in practice, you'll rarely see it.

Mowdyr on the other hand is so versatile that I consider it the "best in slot standard meter".
In order to demonstrate that any weapon is the Best in Slot item for a particular build, it is usually enough to demonstrate that it is better than Mowdyr.
Basically, one cannot go wrong with Mowdyr. 

[Yosharian]

I thought Battle Axes were the best for DPS?

[heldred]

If there weren't so many things completely resistant to Pierce (fully resistant is a stupid mechanic to any game), I still like Stalker's Patience.

[Boeroer]

You mean "immune"? Will save you some letters.

 

Battle Axes are very good due to their modal - if you ignore enchantments and only judge the generic weapons. Modwyr has two very good enchantments and dual damage.

But for every enemy there's the perfect weapon - and it's not always the same. Guess that was the design goal in the first place.

[Zeraphil]

I think I have to hijack this thread to avoid creating a thread with essentially the same question. ^^

I'm currently building an Assassin (single class, because i like SC Rogues) and i read somewhere here in an old thread, that lashes are best for high crit classe because of the additional dmg effect.

With that in mind, would you still consider Modwyr for an Assassin or something like: https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Aldris_Blade_of_Captain_Crow or both? And what's with

Rust's Poignard?

 

[Boeroer]

An Assassin wants a weapon with the highest base damage to get the most out of Assassinate and Backstab - and/or lashes, right.

So unfortunately and counterintuitively light weapons are bad for Assassinate + Backstab. Stuff like Run-Through from Whispers of the ENdless Paths, the Chromoprismatic Staff (quarterstaff) or Dragon's Dowry (arquebus) who either have high base damage or good lashes are nice.

Rust's Poignard is a great weapon, but it doesn't perform too well with Assassination and Backstab from stealth or invisibility. Captain Crow is nice as well, but also not optimal for Backstabs and stuff. 

 

Edited May 24, 2019 by Boeroer

[Zeraphil]

16 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

An Assassin wants a weapon with the highest base damage to get the most out of Assassinate and Backstab - and/or lashes, right.

So unfortunately and counterintuitively light weapons are bad for Assassinate + Backstab. Stuff like Run-Through from Whispers of the ENdless Paths, the Chromoprismatic Staff (quarterstaff) or Dragon's Dowry (arquebus) who either have high base damage or good lashes are nice.

Rust's Poignard is a great weapon, but it doesn't perform too well with Assassination and Backstab from stealth or invisibility. Captain Crow is nice as well, but also not optimal for Backstabs and stuff. 

 

Interesting. So 2H Backstab it is. Reminds me of my old Shadowblade from DAoC ^^

regarding Backstab: Does this item work with invisibility? https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Ajamuut's_Stalking_Cloak

[Boeroer]

Yes! You want it.

[Elric Galad]

13 hours ago, Zeraphil said:

So 2H Backstab it is. Reminds me of my old Shadowblade from DAoC ^^

This is usually true, but there is an exception for Single Class Assassin once you get Vanishing Strike.

Vanishing Strike provides non cancellable invisibility for a (short) duration instead of invisibility for 1 attack.
This means that DPS becomes more important with this ability than damages per attack.

With Vanishing Strike, style doesn't matter as much : 2 handed or Dual Wield are mostly equivalent. 1 handed isn't that great because you'll already have a big Accuracy bonus from assassin's passive. 2 handed are also slightly less optimal because they trade a bit more PR for a bit less damages than Dual Wield and Assassin's passive also provides a lot of PR (and Crit chances).

Also, Dual Wielding with a medium speed 1-hander and a fast 1-hander is optimal for the initial Full Attack from Vanishing Strike due to only the off-hand recovery beng applied (this is only for the initial Full Attack, so it's not that important, but still...). So I think that it is the optimal set-up for Vanishing Strikes.

[Elric Galad]

18 hours ago, Zeraphil said:

I'm currently building an Assassin (single class, because i like SC Rogues) and i read somewhere here in an old thread, that lashes are best for high crit classe because of the additional dmg effect.

Also, if you plan to use Vanishing Strike a lot, you should try Ooblit pet. 

+3s is not much for long effects, but for Vanishing Strike, it is about equivalent to +12 INT (+60% duration) ^^

(I haven't test it, but it should work)

[dunehunter]

On 5/24/2019 at 8:40 AM, Yosharian said:

I thought Battle Axes were the best for DPS?

It is if you don't count Scordeo's edge in. But u can always trigger blade casadge with SE, then switch to axe, then u have the best dps monster now.

Edited May 26, 2019 by dunehunter

[dunehunter]

Best DPS in rank:

1st. Battle Axe + Scordeo's edge: blade Casade + Salvation of time + Bleeding cut + Swift flurry + Heartbeart drumming.

2nd. Frostseeker: Resonant touch + enduring dance + lightning flurry.

3rd. other normal dps builds

[fYNX]

1 hour ago, dunehunter said:

2nd. Frostseeker: Resonant touch + enduring dance + lightning flurry. 

So, a SC monk with a bow? Intriguing, but highly disturbing.

[Boeroer]

Lightning Strikes I presume? It's either Lightning Strikes or Swift Flurry.

SoT-cheese with Brilliant aside:

There are other options that do a lot more dps -  especially on mobs (not necessarily on single targets) but they trivialize the game so much that it's no fun. E.g. Berserker/Beckoner with Ancient Brittle Bones and Chilling Grave from Grave Calling. Usually instadeath when you proc 18 parallel Chillfogs at once that all profit from the weapon quality enchantments (meaning +dmg and +PEN etc.).

Monk with Whispers of the Wind and a scroll of Avenging Storm, combined with Hand Mortar (Blinding Smoke) and Fire in the Hole (additional jump), Stalking Cloak, Resonant Touch... also usually instadeath if enough enemies stand side by side.

Single Class Streetfighter with Vanishing Strikes, Stalking Cloak, Gambit and dual Mortars + Blinding Smoke/jump and scroll of Avenging Storm + Backstab + Powder Burns: same.

Usually the encounter is over then and you don't need Brilliant not SoT. Unfortunately Megabosses force you to pick a class with replenishable resources. I honestly think that's unfortunate design. 

I also think that Brilliant is way too strong. So instead of removing the possibility to get it to almost zero it would have been better to just nerf Brilliant itself. Acute gives +5 INT and +1 PL. Why Brilliant not simply gives you +3 PL or something is beyond me. Why this game breaking resource generation?

And why aren't there more abilities for rogues, fighters etc. that let them regain resources more reliably? Those 25% on kill and whatever is just... bäh.

 

[AndreaColombo]

*ahem* Brilliant + SoT is actually one of the most fun things in the game, thank you very much  (more so if you restore Brilliant to its pre-nerf status where it regenerated resources every 3s instead of 6s.)

[Zeraphil]

On 5/25/2019 at 1:16 PM, Elric Galad said:

This is usually true, but there is an exception for Single Class Assassin once you get Vanishing Strike.

Vanishing Strike provides non cancellable invisibility for a (short) duration instead of invisibility for 1 attack.
This means that DPS becomes more important with this ability than damages per attack.

With Vanishing Strike, style doesn't matter as much : 2 handed or Dual Wield are mostly equivalent. 1 handed isn't that great because you'll already have a big Accuracy bonus from assassin's passive. 2 handed are also slightly less optimal because they trade a bit more PR for a bit less damages than Dual Wield and Assassin's passive also provides a lot of PR (and Crit chances).

Also, Dual Wielding with a medium speed 1-hander and a fast 1-hander is optimal for the initial Full Attack from Vanishing Strike due to only the off-hand recovery beng applied (this is only for the initial Full Attack, so it's not that important, but still...). So I think that it is the optimal set-up for Vanishing Strikes.

I know that Vanishing Strike needs fast recovery to get the optimum out of that ability. That's why i'm eyeing weapons like Duskfall or Rännig's Wrath for my Rogue.

I haven't decided yet how to resolve the Family Feud quest on this playthrough though. And yes that is relevant for me or my "This Quest outcome is bull**** in context with my playthrough" Alarm goes of. ^^

Regarding Brilliant + SoT Cheese: Is there actually a reliable source for the Brilliant Buff in the Game right now?

[AndreaColombo]

Cipher’s “Ancestor Memory” power (which is ally-only and comes at PL 7, so MC Ciphers also get it.)

Multying into Tactician also qualifies as a reliable source, though you have to work a little bit more for it.

[Boeroer]

3 hours ago, AndreaColombo said:

*ahem* Brilliant + SoT is actually one of the most fun things in the game, thank you very much  (more so if you restore Brilliant to its pre-nerf status where it regenerated resources every 3s instead of 6s.)

Sure, if you like God Mode.

[AndreaColombo]

Heh. I don't really use that combo with Barring Death's Door (which is a proper God Mode) unless I'm trying some shenanigans with Vatnir—and even then, by the time Vatnir's ready to go melee, the rest of the crew's already mopped the floor with the bad guys.

What I like about Brilliant + SoT is 100% up time for my buffs, cause I get the most enjoyment from when the crew's all maxed out.