Obsidian - demonstrating your game by going on a town killing spree is NOT a good idea

[Infinitron]

The games are not designed to be played this way and it will always look janky. Lead with your writing and quests (ie what you're supposed to be good at ). This isn't rocket science.

[Gorgon]

I thought it was awesome. Because **** essential NPCs in general.

[Infinitron]

I thought it was awesome. Because **** essential NPCs in general.

 

Not awesome enough to spend half of your 20 minute demo on it.

[C2B]

The games are not designed to be played this way and it will always look janky. Lead with your writing and quests (ie what you're supposed to be good at ). This isn't rocket science.

 

They did, though? They actually put lots of info in that as well like, branching quests, disguises, items that can be used in dialouge, info that has to be aquired before certain dialouge options show up or not, dialouge paths that have to be taken before skillchecks (making them missable as well), and so on and so on.

 

The whole *Kill everyone/comedy* theme they decided to go with made for a more entertaining presentation.

Especially since the whole thing wasn't really rehearsed or downpolished (like other devs)

 

I mean they used a build from last week.

 

At least that also means we're not going to see any downgrade.

Edited March 31, 2019 by C2B

[Chairchucker]

Actually, the game is designed so you absolutely can play them that way if you want, and that's one of the things they were trying to demonstrate. Also, after having demonstrated the dialogue and quest system, it was a convenient and amusing way of demonstrating aspects of the combat system.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Chairchucker

[AeonsLegend]

Kind of ambivalent on this one. I think they wanted to display the combat system AND the town and there wasn't really any way they could do that combo I guess while solving the quests the way any normal person would. I do think it makes it kind of silly and shows 0 depth of story telling. Which perhaps guys you're expecting too much from in this game.

[Starwars]

I loved it. Felt way more like they were just having fun with it rather than a carefully guided demo where every camera move had been rehearsed before.

[uuuhhii]

just hope npc will not randomly drop dead in the middle of the town

it was the worst part of skyrim

[Guest]

Off-kilter game has an off-kilter demo and Infinitron is offended.

 

News at 11.

[injurai]

I thought this was going to be a "you never know when the next christchurch might happen" and "your demo will be in bad taste in the case" sort of thread. Instead it's something far more quibbling.

[Thaudal]

I absolutely loved it. For me it was one of the things that 100% assured me that I am definitely going to buy and very likely love the **** out of this game. For me, one of the key elements of freedom in an RPG is something as silly as being able to murder everyone if that's what you desire.

 

I remember being quite excited about The Witcher 3 before it was released. I was at EGX in 2014 where CD Projekt Red were showcasing and taking questions. One of my questions were if you would be able to attack anyone, including random civilians. As soon as they told me no, that's where my hype and interest died. I realize I am very much in the minority here, but to me it is one of those extreme elements of freedom in RPGs, and there are so extremely few games that allow this. Seeing this in TOW filled me with pure disbelief... In the best way possible!

 

The janky presentation just makes it all the more hilarious, honestly. I really don't care too much about the visual presentation. It's the story, mechanics, and level of freedom that makes or breaks it for me. I absolutely loved the presentation.

[AeonsLegend]

Or maybe you know, you need help.

[Thaudal]

People have tried, man. Then I exercised the freedom to kill random people in real life. The freedom is unmatched, I tell you!

 

EDIT:

But on a more serious note... NPCs that are literally immortal makes no sense to me, immersion wise or in any other way.
Like, wow, you're literally unkillable... It is not I, but you who should be the one to go save the world, oh godlike merchant vendor of bread and fish!

Edited April 1, 2019 by Thaudal

[AeonsLegend]

People have tried, man. Then I exercised the freedom to kill random people in real life. The freedom is unmatched, I tell you!

 

EDIT:

But on a more serious note... NPCs that are literally immortal makes no sense to me, immersion wise or in any other way.

Like, wow, you're literally unkillable... It is not I, but you who should be the one to go save the world, oh godlike merchant vendor of bread and fish!

Just as immersion breaking as npc's that get killed in 1 hit. I mean how do they venture outside the city gates?

 

I can't take any game that has "statgrowth" serious in this regard. You gotta roleplay your way through because most things don't make sense in RPGs.

 

"I'm level 30, so when I hit you with my sword and you don't defend yourself I instagib you. When you hit me with the same sword and I do not defend myself I just shrug it off because of my hitpoints."

 

I was just playing Far Cry new dawn and was trying to take down a bear with my level 1 assault rifle. I emptied 4 clips onto the motherfker and he wasn't even down a third of his hitpoints. Logic!

Edited April 1, 2019 by AeonsLegend

[Thaudal]

Sure, but statgrowth and all the systems that goes along with it can vary a great deal from game to game (some can have it to the extremes you mention, while others can have basically none - and everything in between) - while an immortal NPC is always an immortal NPC.

 

And honestly, if I am the big strong archetypical fantasy hero with biceps of steel and a greatsword longer than a giant, I do find it easier to believe that I will absolutely devastate the peasant selling potatoes in one hit - than him just shrugging it off.

 

But at the end of the day, immersion (or lack thereof) is just one out of several things I like about it. I would still have to say that the main one for me personally is freedom. I like all layers of freedom (especially in RPGs) - this just happens to be a rather rare one that I cherish when I finally find a new game that has it (in addition to its other layers of freedom).

 

Finally, it speaks volumes towards the developer not taking the easy way; it's very easy to make a pretty but very railroaded experience when you put limitations on the player. It's freaking hard designing a game as dynamic as an RPG to be beatable even if you kill key people. The sheer dedication for supporting such a novel feature and layer of freedom in and of itself is also something I can really respect, because it's so incredibly easy to go the other route, as most other developers do.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Thaudal

[AeonsLegend]

Sure, but statgrowth and all the systems that goes along with it can vary a great deal from game to game (some can have it to the extremes you mention, while others can have basically none - and everything in between) - while an immortal NPC is always an immortal NPC.

 

And honestly, if I am the big strong archetypical fantasy hero with biceps of steel and a greatsword longer than a giant, I do find it easier to believe that I will absolutely devastate the peasant selling potatoes in one hit - than him just shrugging it off.

 

But at the end of the day, immersion (or lack thereof) is just one out of several things I like about it. I would still have to say that the main one for me personally is freedom. I like all layers of freedom (especially in RPGs) - this just happens to be a rather rare one that I cherish when I finally find a new game that has it (in addition to its other layers of freedom).

 

Finally, it speaks volumes towards the developer not taking the easy way; it's very easy to make a pretty but very railroaded experience when you put limitations on the player. It's freaking hard designing a game as dynamic as an RPG to be beatable even if you kill key people. The sheer dedication for supporting such a novel feature and layer of freedom in and of itself is also something I can really respect, because it's so incredibly easy to go the other route, as most other developers do.

Yea, but any huge muscle dude will still die to a shiv in the gut by that same peasant. Which actually is something funny, because people that work on farms are generally much stronger and fit than other people because of the manual labour they do. So a peasant is actually a really silly comparison. You should have said monk or cleric. Oh, but wait, those are OP in rpgs.

 

/case

[Thaudal]

So a peasant is actually a really silly comparison. You should have said monk or cleric.

 

I very specifically said peasant selling potatoes - as in, a vendor, not necessarily a farmer. Could have been a tailor if that suits you better (no pun intended).

 

Anyway, getting a bit silly now and drilling way too much into semantics.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Thaudal

[the_ragnarokkr]

I actually liked it. That PAX walkthrough is probably the most authentic presentation for a game I've seen in over a decade.

So refreshing to see a presentation that isn't carefully choreographed down to the camera angle like 99% of other games.

[Thaudal]

Very true.

 

I remember years ago, Josh Sawyer and other Obsidian developers were showing an early build of PoE at PAX as well. It was very similar - very casual and they were goofing around, stopping the game in the middle of the action just to enable bighead mode just for the **** of it. Good times. And I love to see them continue that way of doing things. In an industry ever growing with more carefully planned deceptive bull****, this comes across as very honest and what you see is what you get.

 

In fact, just about the only thing about the entire presentation that, to me, was a bit of a downer, was how they just instantly expressed that they wouldn't even hear any questions regarding the Epic thing and that they were just so excited to work with their partners. That seemed like the typical industry bull****. And it was mostly just the mindset and attitude of "we don't even want to hear it, so don't even bother" before the presentation even began that rubbed me the wrong way. Had nothing to do with the game though. The game looks dope.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Thaudal

[C2B]

In fact, just about the only thing about the entire presentation that, to me, was a bit of a downer, was how they just instantly expressed that they wouldn't even hear any questions regarding the Epic thing and that they were just so excited to work with their partners. That seemed like the typical industry bull****. And it was mostly just the mindset and attitude of "we don't even want to hear it, so don't even bother" before the presentation even began that rubbed me the wrong way. Had nothing to do with the game though. The game looks dope.

 

Not really, that sentence and especially *It was a decision Private division made for the game* was typical business speak of *We disagree with the decision, but we can do **** all to change it*. It's as passive agressive as you can get. Used it myself.

 

Also that happened before the Q&A as to avoid questions they can't even answer/only dig their hole deeper, not the presentation itself.

Edited April 1, 2019 by C2B

[Thaudal]

Yeah, I know, you're right... I get it. Part of me also already knew that. And I do understand it. Obsidian is in a ****ty situation in that regard. Still just gave a bit of an awkward and pressed atmosphere in what was otherwise such a cool, funny and positive panel.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Thaudal

[Wormerine]

Looks like exactly what I am hoping for. The quest they did show was hilarious.

 

The only thing I would say is how awkward the aggro was - NPC oblivious to what is happening just couple feet away from them. That’s always a tricky thing to do.

[Starwars]

Looks like exactly what I am hoping for. The quest they did show was hilarious.

 

The only thing I would say is how awkward the aggro was - NPC oblivious to what is happening just couple feet away from them. That’s always a tricky thing to do.

 

Likely (hopefully) something that will be tweaked before the release.

 

But yeah, I'm superglad they were not afraid to show off the "alpha weirdness", that just made it fun to watch.

[Verde]

Looks like exactly what I am hoping for. The quest they did show was hilarious.

 

The only thing I would say is how awkward the aggro was - NPC oblivious to what is happening just couple feet away from them. That’s always a tricky thing to do.

Like fighting Karenn in Nekataka eh?

[Chairchucker]

Likely (hopefully) something that will be tweaked before the release.

 

But yeah, I'm superglad they were not afraid to show off the "alpha weirdness", that just made it fun to watch.

I hope that they don't tweak it too much, though. I liked the fact that combat didn't make them enemies of the entire city.