Jump to content

Welcome to Obsidian Forum Community
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Something I didn't understand about the ending


  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1
MrBrown

MrBrown

    (6) Magician

  • Members
  • 601 posts
  • Location:Finland

So.

 

Eothas is destroying the thingamagic that makes souls pass to the other worlds, and back. Without it, souls can't be reborn, and eventually people aren't born with souls, right?

 

So how did it things work without that thingy? It was build by the Engwithans, or something right? How did stuff work before that?



#2
house2fly

house2fly

    (8) Warlock

  • Members
  • 1174 posts
There was a natural process that was hijacked by the Engwithans. Whatever they did to hijack it means that it doesn't just go back to normal with the Wheel broken- like if you dammed a river and made it go down another channel, then blocked the other channel, the dam would still be there so the water couldn't go back the way it did before
  • Tagaziel and Hawke64 like this

#3
AeonsLegend

AeonsLegend

    (6) Magician

  • Members
  • 740 posts

Well one might say it would allow for new souls to enter the world and not rehashed ones. Eothas tried this before and then we got the Hollowborn crisis. Maybe by destroying the wheel he thinks he can restore the original way of things. I dunno. Seems like he didn't know, but was "sure" we would survive and find a way. Sounds like a total dumbass plan to me.

 

In all his benevolence, Eothas is just another crazy psychopath trying to shape the world into what hé wants. He doesn't even care how many people he has to kill to get what he wants. God of light my ass. He is evil and he doesn't even realize it. Kind of Ironic.


Edited by AeonsLegend, 25 March 2019 - 04:20 PM.

  • Teukros likes this

#4
Wormerine

Wormerine

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 3104 posts
  • Location:Belfast
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

Seems like he didn't know, but was "sure" we would survive and find a way. Sounds like a total dumbass plan to me.
 
In all his benevolence, Eothas is just another crazy psychopath trying to shape the world into what hé wants. He doesn't even care how many people he has to kill to get what he wants. God of light my ass. He is evil and he doesn't even realize it. Kind of Ironic.

Eothas plan was to change the relationship between Gods and kith - he doesn’t quite know what will happen but believes that kith will find a way to move forward.

There are quite a few elements in Eothas’ words and actions which act as a reflection of Thaos. They stand on opposing sides (freedom/control, enlightenment/ignorance) but they do some pretty horrific things to push their agendas... or do they? Why would lives matter if their soul will be reborn again?
  • E.RedMark likes this

#5
AeonsLegend

AeonsLegend

    (6) Magician

  • Members
  • 740 posts

 

Seems like he didn't know, but was "sure" we would survive and find a way. Sounds like a total dumbass plan to me.
 
In all his benevolence, Eothas is just another crazy psychopath trying to shape the world into what hé wants. He doesn't even care how many people he has to kill to get what he wants. God of light my ass. He is evil and he doesn't even realize it. Kind of Ironic.

Eothas plan was to change the relationship between Gods and kith - he doesn’t quite know what will happen but believes that kith will find a way to move forward.

There are quite a few elements in Eothas’ words and actions which act as a reflection of Thaos. They stand on opposing sides (freedom/control, enlightenment/ignorance) but they do some pretty horrific things to push their agendas... or do they? Why would lives matter if their soul will be reborn again?

 

The soul is reborn, but the memories are removed. So the person and the body it inhabited ceases to exist. I call that killing. Besides Eothas actually intends to end the cycle, so those souls aren't even reborn. And then what Eothas is doing isn't a plan. He just feels that man should be released from the cycle and then blunders through that without knowing how to do it or what the results may be. And freedom isn't a word I would choose in this context. I mean what is freedom? Can the people currently choose their own lives and destiny? Do whatever they wish? Yes they can. They just don't control what happens after they die. That doesn't change when Eothas succeeds. So what is this freedom thing he's aiming for? It doesn't exist. No, Eothas aims to destroy the Gods because he feels they impact kith lives too much. Thing is, the one who impacted the lives of kith the most and in a most horrible way is Eothas himself. Eothas is an idiot child.


Edited by AeonsLegend, 25 March 2019 - 07:31 PM.


#6
asnjas

asnjas

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 199 posts
The huana and eng clearly lived just fine before the device. So there isnt a question as to whether it is possible. I think the process was natural but who knows the specifics.

The only question is how does removing the damn all at once impact the countryside after the damn is suddenly broke.

I figure eothas plan isnt exactly popular so its not like other gods are going to work with him to remove the damn slowly and cautiously. Also, it seems like the machine is all or nothing. Its on or off. It seems like the only way to stop it is to break it down all at once terrorist style.

I dont think the kith are free style in this world. The gods meddle and influence the kith world. If you meddle in my business then im not free. Pointing guns to my head and saying you are forbidden from doing B means im not free to do b. The fact i can defy and fight and maybe win doesnt mean im free to do b all along.

Also think about cult from poe1. How mich did they meddle in the lives of others and affect kith world in the name of woedica. They did stuff for thousands of years. Eothas is trying to free kith from this type meddle and let kith make their choices free of gods influence.

Eothas 2020 make eora great again

Edited by asnjas, 26 March 2019 - 04:20 AM.


#7
Verde

Verde

    (11) Wizard

  • Members
  • 1657 posts
  • Steam:DragonSoundxSG
Obsidian didnt think that deeply is the answer.
  • daven likes this

#8
Taudis

Taudis

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 87 posts

Well one might say it would allow for new souls to enter the world and not rehashed ones. Eothas tried this before and then we got the Hollowborn crisis. Maybe by destroying the wheel he thinks he can restore the original way of things. I dunno. Seems like he didn't know, but was "sure" we would survive and find a way. Sounds like a total dumbass plan to me.
 
In all his benevolence, Eothas is just another crazy psychopath trying to shape the world into what hé wants. He doesn't even care how many people he has to kill to get what he wants. God of light my ass. He is evil and he doesn't even realize it. Kind of Ironic.

 
Pretty sure the Hollowborn Crisis was entirely Thaos/Woedica and Eothas/Waidwen was just a convenient scapegoat.
 
Eothas besides being the god of light is also the god of rebirth through death. I'm pretty sure that Xoti repeatedly saying "that's not Eothas that's Gaun" is supposed to reinforce the idea that narratively, this is a representation of the Gaun aspect of Eothas. While it is maybe the worst plan ever (why not at least try to gather a bunch of kith to make a Wheel that doesn't feed the gods before breaking the one that everyone is using to live? why not reincarnate into like one of the Engwithan Titans that is already at Ukaizo instead of walking halfway across Eora in the most spectacularly destructive way?), destroying the current system so that a new one might grow from the ashes is perfectly in line with Eothas' portfolio. I think you're right that Eothas' primary goal is to shape the world into what he wants without much care as to how destructive that might be. I don't think it's psychopathic but just because that implies sentience - the gods are essentially fancy Engwithan computers.
 
We also see several times Eothas wondering if certain ways of thinking are easier for other gods (he seems to have trouble with the concept of inevitability and asks if Rymrgand finds it easier), which makes me think that the gods are actually kind of stupid/dumb/inexperienced when trying to think outside the programming of their portfolio. While I'm sure the more likely answer is that Obs didn't really think this through very well, it's also fairly possible that the intent is that Eothas can't imagine anything BUT rebirth coming from death. He's literally incapable of not having hope for the dawn to arrive after a dark night, as he might phrase it. Course that doesn't make his plan smart. Just makes it on brand.
 

How did stuff work before that?

 

You reincarnated still but it was slow (like potentially hundreds of years slow) and your soul was just as likely to be dispersed into random energy as to reincarnate. For all that the Engwithans are sketchy and evil, the Wheel is probably a kindness wrt souls. We see several times (Poko Kohora, the SSS arena) that not moving through the reincarnation cycle quickly is uncomfortable or even painful for souls.

 

The reason why everyone keeps bringing up rivers and dams is because that's the metaphor Josh used when someone first asked your question (and was apparently the explanation that got cut from the game for some reason). house2fly's answer is pretty much the canon explanation as to why breaking the Wheel won't just revert things to the original natural process.


  • Hawke64 likes this

#9
Tagaziel

Tagaziel

    (6) Magician

  • Members
  • 745 posts
  • Location:Pseudo-state of Poland
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer

So.
 
Eothas is destroying the thingamagic that makes souls pass to the other worlds, and back. Without it, souls can't be reborn, and eventually people aren't born with souls, right?
 
So how did it things work without that thingy? It was build by the Engwithans, or something right? How did stuff work before that?


I specifically gathered the closest we have to an official explanation in this article:

https://pillarsofete...a.com/The_Wheel

Also, what house said. :)
  • MrBrown, juanval and Yria like this

#10
juanval

juanval

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 254 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

 

So.
 
Eothas is destroying the thingamagic that makes souls pass to the other worlds, and back. Without it, souls can't be reborn, and eventually people aren't born with souls, right?
 
So how did it things work without that thingy? It was build by the Engwithans, or something right? How did stuff work before that?


I specifically gathered the closest we have to an official explanation in this article:

https://pillarsofete...a.com/The_Wheel

Also, what house said. :)

 

Ok, the Ukaizo machine has been working so many years that the natural process of the original Wheel doesn't work without the Ukaizo machine.

 

But, once Eothas destroys the Ukaizo machine and the natural process of the Wheel doesn't work, how the newborn are filled with souls?  :getlost:



#11
Boeroer

Boeroer

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 15246 posts
  • Location:Bucharest, Romania
  • Lords of the Eastern Reach Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!
They are born with the souls that are in the beyond until there are no more left. Souls can't pass to the beyond from the in-between without the wheel - so with every death and rebirth the in-between becomes more stuffed and the beyond more empty.
  • juanval likes this

#12
juanval

juanval

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 254 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

They are born with the souls that are in the beyond until there are no more left. Souls can't pass to the beyond from the in-between without the wheel - so with every death and rebirth the in-between becomes more stuffed and the beyond more empty.

Ahhhh. Thanks for the fast explanation.

 

Then in PoE3 we would have a hollowborn crisis again.



#13
Boeroer

Boeroer

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 15246 posts
  • Location:Bucharest, Romania
  • Lords of the Eastern Reach Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!
I guess. If the Wheel doesn't get fixed in time. But this time worldwide and also hollowborn animals and so on. And since holloborn seem to be too passive to procreate everything dies out. That's why Rymrgand likes this ending so much. ;)

Edited by Boeroer, 16 April 2019 - 09:18 PM.

  • Wormerine likes this




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users