Political Point and Counterpoint

[Bartimaeus]

Less than what his lawyers asked for. White collar crime continues to pay for the fines and punishment you receive when you actually get caught...and never mind all those who don't get caught.

[Gromnir]

Less than what his lawyers asked for. White collar crime continues to pay for the fines and punishment you receive when you actually get caught...and never mind all those who don't get caught.

the different standard for white collar crimes were the norm... before enron. since then, particular for public stuff, sentences has been quite a bit harsher.  skilling got 24 years (?) and lay died after sentencing and before serving any time... something like 40 years for lay? kenneth rice, who cooperated fully with authorities, got 2ish years... again, am a little fuzzy on exact sentence length.  

 

if manafort were immediate post enron, am thinking it would be understandable for a holdout judge to issue a stop the madness kinda sentence as similar white collar nogoodnik cases were getting extreme long sentences w/o any explanation as to why there had been such a sea change from ye bad olde days. however, this is 2019 and not 2005, so am a little surprised. 

 

will need look at last few years to see what is typical sentence for manafort kinda stuff.  

 

am also gonna note how these individual sentences may look strange when viewed isolated.  typical fed sentences for firearm and drug charges is ~5 years.  is not hard to find examples o' exceptions, particular for state-level cases, but am speaking o' average. nevertheless, am gonna admit there should be some kinda look into over-the-top sentencing in a few jurisdictions for firearm possession crimes and for drug offenses. 

 

as to violent crimes... am admitted conflicted. you threaten or use violence to commit a crime and am understanding why the public has typical demanded higher sentences.  likely has become excessive in a few cases, but democracy being what it is...

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gfted1]

Finland's cabinet quits over failure to deliver healthcare reform.

 

Aw man, if they cant figure it out, how am I ever supposed to get my freebies?

[ShadySands]

47 months for Manafort. Bah, I had bet on 8 years.

I guessed probation but I have negative zero faith in our system

[Guard Dog]

I spit coffee all over my desk when I saw this!

 

[Gfted1]

Whos that?

[ShadySands]

Beto O'Rourke

 

He is a former congressman from Texas and ran against Ted Cruz's beard last year but lost a fairly close race

Edited March 8, 2019 by ShadySands

[smjjames]

The shirt in the background should have been a clue.

[ShadySands]

Only if you follow politics and races in other states

[BruceVC]

 

47 months for Manafort. Bah, I had bet on 8 years.

I guessed probation but I have negative zero faith in our system

 

 

The sentence seems inadequate for many but Manafort did cooperate on certain issues and he also will be sentenced next week for other crimes he committed so his current sentence should,be extended ? 

 

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/432959-manafort-faces-first-round-of-sentencing

[Guard Dog]

The House voted in a resolution to allow non-citizens in the US illegally to vote. https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/mar/8/house-votes-favor-illegal-immigrant-voting/

 

Now, this actually is a symbolic gesture because it does not actually do anything. And if it were a real bill it would never be accepted by the Senate or President so this is all just a lot of noise. But it IS an extremely stupid thing to do if they want to retain their hold on the House or put a jackass in the White House in '20. This is going to (and was meant to) infuriate the Trump base. The last thing you want to do it piss them off enough to make them vote in large numbers. The smart thing is keep a lid on your more extreme members as much as possible and spend two years quietly advancing your left wing BS and loudly tripping up Trump and making him look like a buffoon. The idea would be to make him look ineffective not just BE ineffective. You want to depress the voters who oppose you. Not make them rabid and chomping at the bit to vote. Pelosi might be evil but she isn't stupid. She was off to a good start with this. But like I've said before... they just can't help themselves. 

[smjjames]

I'm gonna call BS on your source for a lack of details of what exactly the Democrats are doing to allegedly 'give illegals voting rights' and just going 'ARGLEBARGLE! BROWN PPL GONNA VUTE!". Looking elsewhere to get the information that article lacks, I believe you're referring to the automatic voter registration stuff?

 

It has stuff like a constitutional amendment to repeal Citizens United, which would be easier to do via normal legislation or through the courts than a constitutional amendment, so, yeah, it's obviously not meant to be serious.

 

As for Pelosi, pretty sure she was pushed into doing the HR 1 thing by the new freshmen/women class. Seems like she is having trouble managing the leftward push. Obviously, she is doing what she can, but she's pretty much dealing with the Democrats version of the Tea Party movement.

[injurai]

In case you ever need more proof that American television is the worst medium by which to track unfolding events.

 

[Guard Dog]

I'm gonna call BS on your source for a lack of details of what exactly the Democrats are doing to allegedly 'give illegals voting rights' and just going 'ARGLEBARGLE! BROWN PPL GONNA VUTE!". Looking elsewhere to get the information that article lacks, I believe you're referring to the automatic voter registration stuff?

 

It has stuff like a constitutional amendment to repeal Citizens United, which would be easier to do via normal legislation or through the courts than a constitutional amendment, so, yeah, it's obviously not meant to be serious.

 

As for Pelosi, pretty sure she was pushed into doing the HR 1 thing by the new freshmen/women class. Seems like she is having trouble managing the leftward push. Obviously, she is doing what she can, but she's pretty much dealing with the Democrats version of the Tea Party movement.

It's just one part of HR 1. It's just a resolution. It's meaningless. It's political patter to make their team happy and piss off the other team. Neither is a particularly wise strategy but... they can't help themselves. 

[ShadySands]

That's really dumb either way.

[Maedhros]

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/feb/28/girl-11-gives-birth-to-rapists-child-after-argentina-refuses-abortion

 

Catholics are the worst christians.

[BruceVC]

In case you ever need more proof that American television is the worst medium by which to track unfolding events.

 

 

I can understand the valid and understandable criticism around this entire subterfuge, it is really unacceptable what Smollett did and this will cost him his career which is exactly what he deserves 

 

But it is fairly common for certain events in most countries to immediately get a response and opinion from politicians and some in the media, I wouldn't see this as unique to the USA. People should rather only comment once the facts are known...less embarrassing 

[Guard Dog]

In this case Bruce they WANTED it to be true. They wanted this to be true more than anything. Because in their minds everyone that disagrees with them politically is a racist, homophobic, white, male, nazi. Because obviously who else could support Trump in their minds. No comes this story that validates all their preconceptions and the jump all over it. I think Smolett knew that would happen and that is why he did it. But like a lot of people he underestimated the investigative abilities of the police. 

[Elerond]

Finland's cabinet quits over failure to deliver healthcare reform.

 

Aw man, if they cant figure it out, how am I ever supposed to get my freebies?

They tried to make it more like the system that you have now. Freedom of choice and more privatization.

[Gfted1]

If it isn't broke, don't fix it?

[Elerond]

If it isn't broke, don't fix it?

Yeah that was general consensus and government failed multiple time to ensure that their changes follow our constitution

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/feb/28/girl-11-gives-birth-to-rapists-child-after-argentina-refuses-abortion

Catholics are the worst christians.

Hold on here, the protestants here in Texas would gladly do the same with the reasoning "just put it up for adoption lol". All sides of the cross are **** fam.

[BruceVC]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/08/world/middleeast/shamima-begum-baby-isis.html

 

What do you guys think about this development, in summary when ISIS created its false caliphate in 2014 there propaganda machinery attracted several thousand Sunni Muslims to make the egregious mistake of leaving Western countries to actually travel and join the ISIS in there brutal campaigns in various ME  areas

 

Most of these people have been killed but there are also the ISIS families who are now interned in camps in Syria where it can  be decided what to do with them

 

This young lady wants to now go back to the UK, she was also initially pregnant but lost  the baby,   as she was a UK citizen before she ran away at the age of 15 to join ISIS.

 

I would absolutely refuse her any entry back to the UK which is exactly what happened ....she made her bed and  now needs to live with it 

[injurai]

In this case Bruce they WANTED it to be true. They wanted this to be true more than anything. Because in their minds everyone that disagrees with them politically is a racist, homophobic, white, male, nazi. Because obviously who else could support Trump in their minds. No comes this story that validates all their preconceptions and the jump all over it. I think Smolett knew that would happen and that is why he did it. But like a lot of people he underestimated the investigative abilities of the police. 

 

I think it's worse than that.

 

While the "fascist patriarchy" is certainly the favorite boogey-man to rail against. It's really a complacent buy-in into reactionary format that underpins all of those programs that found their way into that compilation. It's their modus operandi. It is their product, not a by-product of merely jumping to conclusions. They are "authoritative sources" (by their own construction) that hold up narratives to the eyes of a near-sighted of the populace while they hold the real story behind their back in which only the far-sighted can see if they get lucky to catch a reflection in a distance mirror. When they don't have a story they concoct the one that gets them the most immediate views. It's constructing narratives through omission, and getting away with outright lies based on intentional premature reporting where they always have a "mea culpa" out. They insert themselves in-between portions of the populace that don't readily communicate, but not a goodwill brokers but as highway-men. It's a mob that will protect not your physical safety but your social perception if you pay your dues. It's like they sell futures on junk collateralized-narrative-obligation-backed securities in a socio-political economy.

 

What we see in that video is just one flavor of this, the reactionary progressive flavor.

[ShadySands]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/08/world/middleeast/shamima-begum-baby-isis.html

 

What do you guys think about this development, in summary when ISIS created its false caliphate in 2014 there propaganda machinery attracted several thousand Sunni Muslims to make the egregious mistake of leaving Western countries to actually travel and join the ISIS in there brutal campaigns in various ME  areas

 

Most of these people have been killed but there are also the ISIS families who are now interned in camps in Syria where it can  be decided what to do with them

 

This young lady wants to now go back to the UK, she was also initially pregnant but lost  the baby,   as she was a UK citizen before she ran away at the age of 15 to join ISIS.

 

I would absolutely refuse her any entry back to the UK which is exactly what happened ....she made her bed and  now needs to live with it 

I'd let them all back in then put them on trial 

 

And regarding the Jussie Smollet thing, it's not difficult to find other cases from either side of the aisle of people wanting someone to be guilty of whatever bad thing to confirm what they already believe about that person/group/organization.

 

Edited March 9, 2019 by ShadySands