TheMetaphysician Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 (edited) I thought it would really be helpful to have a thread in this forum gathering people's observations on turn-based combat -- not on whether they like it or not, but on the strategies, tactics, and character builds that operate differently in the turn-based mode. I'll start with some preliminary observations and speculations. - Am I right to think that, on the whole, attack speed is less valuable? As far as I can tell, everyone goes once every turn. (I'm not certain of that, though; if anyone has observed something else, please speak up!) The attack speed/recovery etc. associated with the ability you use in a turn only moves you up or down the order for the next turn. So you won't lap the other characters in terms of the number of your attacks if you have good attack speed as you would in the base game, which makes attack speed quite a bit less valuable. I can see dumping Dex on certain builds, especially for Per. That would seem to make all the abilities that slow you down actually correspondingly more valuable -- like the medium shield Block modal, the rod's Blast modal, the sabre's penetration-boosting modal, and so on. Similarly, the pistol's increased attack speed modal is less valuable, as is the two-weapon fighting passive. - You might actually want really low action speed on a caster, because it might make you much harder to interrupt. Spells that have a "cast" action speed always resolve by the end of the round; the number associated with the "cast" action speed seems to be the number of initiative points you have to move through in the round before the cast resolves. (So if you had 6 initiative that round, and you cast a spell with a 3 number in the casting time, everybody that had lower than 9 initiative will go and then your spell will resolve at initiative 9. It is like the spell is a character itself that has the caster's initiative + the casting speed.) But if you are the last person going in the round anyway, your cast will immediately resolve. (Again, not tested, but I think this should be how it works. Interested if people test.) This isn't quite right. Sometimes it resolves at the beginning of the next round, I've noticed, though usually I get to go in that next round. That affects things like summoning spells, though, since it affects when the summons get to start going. Not sure how the game determined whether a spell goes in the round it is cast or in the next round. - That is not to say dual-wielding is less good. Now you attack with both weapons automatically with your action point for the round. It does mean that the calculus about dual-wielding fast weapons (like daggers) vs. dual-wielding heavier-hitting weapons (like sabers) shifts toward the higher-damage weapons. - One thing initiative matters for is establishing engagement. Engagement turns out to feel somewhat different than it does in the base game. That's because you actually have to do something on your turn to establish engagement. It doesn't automatically establish when an enemy runs by you. So you can't just plant your tank in a bottleneck and count on him to "catch" any enemy running by. You have to get next to the enemy and do something to establish engagement. I'm not sure what that "something" always has to be. Attacking does the trick. I also established engagement when I cast a standard-action Watcher ability and then just clicked on the enemy I was standing next to (when the red symbol that signified I couldn't do any action was showing). I haven't tried starting to cast a spell and then clicking on a nearby enemy while I'm still not done casting, to see if that establishes engagement. I haven't thought through what this fact means for tactics. I think maybe it means that the first round for tanks is pretty crucial -- tanks might really benefit from having mobility and pull skills to establish engagement with as many enemies as possible in the first round, and they might want to go early in the round. I'm not sure how important that will be. Pull of Eora might be importantly useful for keeping enemies off the backline, and in fact ought to be even more valuable simply because positioning ends up being more important for turn-based. - Some actions you might not expect are "free" actions, where you can still do another action in the round. The Rogue's Escape ability (and all its upgrades), unlike the Fighter's Charge, is a free action, so you can warp and then attack. So too is the Fighter's Into the Fray, which makes it very interesting. You can pull an enemy with Into the Fray and then do another attack on that enemy. Makes the upgrade that lowers deflection more interesting. Or you can Charge one enemy in the first round and pull another (the most threatening) with Into the Fray. - Duration and linger for chants is really interesting. Chants last 1 round and linger for 1 round. So everyone has by default the previously Troubadour-only ability to have 2 chants up all the time. Also, the Troubadour linger bonus would need to combine with Intelligence to get to +100% for it to have any effect at all, since the breakpoint would need take the chant from a 1 round linger to a 2 round linger. I'm not sure it is possible to achieve that -- my guy with Berath's Blessings and maxed Int and an Int-boosting pet isn't close -- which means that the Troubadour linger bonus would be useless. (Which is ok; that class is plenty strong enough as it is.) On the other hand, if you could somehow stack enough intelligence to get a +100% linger bonus, you could have 3 chants up simultaneously all the time. On the other hand, the Brisk Recitation modal strengthens some chants. Chants like the Weakening chant, Soft Winds, Ancient Memory that make an attack or do damage or heal seem to apply twice in the same round with Brisk Recitation, which doubles their value. (I tested Soft Winds and am inferring about the others.) That's not true in the base game. (Don't assume that means Ancient Memory is actually twice as valuable in turn-based. Since the "amount healed" changed, the math to figure that out would have be a lot more complicated, and take into account the "amount healed" proportionally for all the other healing abilities in the game.) Edited January 25, 2019 by TheMetaphysician 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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